3 FLoyds Zombie Dust attempt. Help/info requested

[Zeppman]

skeezerpleezer - or anyone that has brew the updated recipe on PG 1

Question: Why is sugar not used to dry this IPA out (AG version)?

Seem like it would be necessary. Am i wrong?

Kind of want to do a citra bomb this weekend, recipe looks tasty.

If you've had the real thing, its not all that dry. Hence the british ale yeast... you want some slight sweetness there to compliment the citra.

I just did a batch a week ago and tried adding a bit of amarillo. I'll try and remember to report back once its on tap.

 

[formula2fast]

I did a side by side with mine (used the recipe on page 1) and it was sweeter than ZD, and also maltier. I may try to dry the next one out a bit.

 

[mux]

Zombie dust has changed over time.

 

[tschafer]

formula2fast - that's what i was worried about.

I think i'm going to make this Saturday, but going to add sugar to dry it out a bit.

I've has Dust before, but it's been over a year...Now I get Pliny...not a bad trade.

I'll post updates and exact amount of sugar.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

formula2fast - that's what i was worried about.

I think i'm going to make this Saturday, but going to add sugar to dry it out a bit.

I've has Dust before, but it's been over a year...Now I get Pliny...not a bad trade.

I'll post updates and exact amount of sugar.

Or just mash lower (if doing all grain)?

 

[tschafer]

Yah, i'll be doing a AG batch.

I was planning on a 152 mash, with the .5lb of corn sugar @ 30min boil

You recommend I should mash @ 147; no sugar?

 

[rwischer]

I'm a new home brewer and am going to attempt the extract version of ZD but have a few questions.

1) All the extract ingredient kits I've done so far it calls for steeping grains for about 30 mins and then adding the extract at the beginning of the following 60 min boil. In the original post the following seems to indicate that the DME is added during the steeping phase:

"Steep the grains at in the mid 150s for 45-60 minutes. It is assuming a 5 gallon batch, 3 gallon - 60 minute boil, and adding the extract at the beginning"

Am I interpreting that correctly that the LME is added at the beginning of the steeping stage (i.e. you steep in boiling DME)?

2) Boil time: Again, I'm used to a 30 min steep and then 60 min boil (LME/DME and hops added). I'm reading this one as 60 min of steeping AND then another 60 with hopping. Is that correct?

3) Hop times: Are the times indicated for adding hops the minutes left in the boil or the minutes into the boil?

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I'm a new home brewer and am going to attempt the extract version of ZD but have a few questions.

1) All the extract ingredient kits I've done so far it calls for steeping grains for about 30 mins and then adding the extract at the beginning of the following 60 min boil. In the original post the following seems to indicate that the DME is added during the steeping phase:

"Steep the grains at in the mid 150s for 45-60 minutes. It is assuming a 5 gallon batch, 3 gallon - 60 minute boil, and adding the extract at the beginning"

Am I interpreting that correctly that the LME is added at the beginning of the steeping stage (i.e. you steep in boiling DME)?

2) Boil time: Again, I'm used to a 30 min steep and then 60 min boil (LME/DME and hops added). I'm reading this one as 60 min of steeping AND then another 60 with hopping. Is that correct?

3) Hop times: Are the times indicated for adding hops the minutes left in the boil or the minutes into the boil?

1.Add DME after steeping
2. Correct
3.left in the boil

 

[te-wa]

rwischer:

steep your grains at about 153-154 for at least 30 min. in 2.5 gallons water. longer won' hurt.

use a colander to rinse the grains with about 1/2 gallon of 170 degree water.
you want to bring your boiling water/wort up to around the 3 gallon mark.

when it starts to boil, take it off the heat, stir in all the DME, and bring it back to boil again. this is when you add your bittering hops. be careful of boil-overs.

yes, the hop times are the minutes remaining in the 60 minute boil.

*skeezerpleezer beat me to it!

 

[tschafer]

Update on brew day.

12/7 - brewed. AG Batch.
83.86% - 2Row
6% - Munich 10L
3% - Crystal 30L
3% - Melanoiden
1% - Cara-pils
3.14 - Dextrose

Citra hops - First wort, whole hops (13.8 AA)
The rest were pellets @ (13.5 AA)

That puts my IBUs around 69...could possibly be lower, if I knew how old the hops were.


Water treated with Gypsum, Epsom Salts, Bake Soda & Chalk (CaCO3) to match Burton on Trent.
(amounts not listed, because they are dialed in for my location winter water source. Easy to get, just email your cities, water treatment plant.

Mashed 60min @ 148 for light body. Batched Sparge @ 168

Added Dextrose (corn sugar) @ 30 mins.

Est. OG=1.065; Measured OG=1.068.

Yeast=1.5L of WLP001

 

[te-wa]

Here is the extract conversion for anyone interested:

6.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 70.6 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 12.5 IBU***
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04)
or
Wyeast 1968
Ferm temp-62-64

i didnt get a chance to read the entire thread, but is the 6lbs DME accounting for the (lost) efficiency of all-grain? otherwise, the conversion would be 7lbs DME i think... forgive the question, im just now getting into all grain.

 

[TheWitGuy]

I just received my pound of Citra hops that were this year's crop at 14.4% AA. For the guys that have brewed it already would you still recommend the 50/50 mix of Chinook with it? Or should I keep it all Citra?

 

[TallDan]

I just received my pound of Citra hops that were this year's crop at 14.4% AA. For the guys that have brewed it already would you still recommend the 50/50 mix of Chinook with it? Or should I keep it all Citra?

I really like my all-citra batch. Tasting it side by side with zombie dust, it does not taste like exactly the same beer, but honestly, i think it's just because my hops weren't very fresh.

Also, FWIW, I agree that the recipe for ZD has changed somewhat, but I think i liked it a little better before they changed it. Originally, it was advertised as 100% citra. So, are you shooting to clone the original? Looking to clone what's made now? Or are you just looking to make a fantastic beer?

 

[TheWitGuy]

I really like my all-citra batch. Tasting it side by side with zombie dust, it does not taste like exactly the same beer, but honestly, i think it's just because my hops weren't very fresh.

Also, FWIW, I agree that the recipe for ZD has changed somewhat, but I think i liked it a little better before they changed it. Originally, it was advertised as 100% citra. So, are you shooting to clone the original? Looking to clone what's made now? Or are you just looking to make a fantastic beer?

I'm going to go with the original all Citra recipe. Especially with theses ultra fresh hops I think it'll turn out great. Now here's another question for you guys did it taste great from the keg or when it was bottled and what carbing method did you use? (i.e. LME, tablets, sugar)

 

[ja09]

I'm going to go with the original all Citra recipe. Especially with theses ultra fresh hops I think it'll turn out great. Now here's another question for you guys did it taste great from the keg or when it was bottled and what carbing method did you use? (i.e. LME, tablets, sugar)

My all citra batch was kegged with 4oz citra in the keg. It was a fantastic beer and tasted fresh for over 2 months. Still the best IPA I've made so far.

FWIW, the citra I purchased from William's was tropical, fresh, and outstanding. The citra from Northern (think it was Hopunion) was a little muted and a tiny bit catty. I mixed the two and the beer still turned out great, but I think next time I'll get them all from Williams. This was earlier this year with the 2012 harvest, I'm guessing.

 

[te-wa]

just brewed this as my first all grain brew. boiled down from 6.5 to a little less than 5.5 gals. i could not get amarillo as i wished so subbed in simcoe.
.75 simcoe at fwh
four additions during boil of 1oz citra and .25oz simcoe
flame out of same.
currently immersion chilling
lookin' good so far. i'll get a SG in a bit.

*gah! i only hit .060 with a mere 4 gallons. i added enough clean water to take me up to 5 gal, and i suspect this would be an original gravity of .057
with 75% attenutaion i might get an ABV of 5.6

could this be a pH issue? i didnt add the pH boost powder to the mash, just straight R/O water.
im not complaining if i get 5.6 abv, was just hoping to reach target, and i didnt.

 

[tschafer]

te-wa-Don't worry, that's very common. This is your first AG. You have no idea what your brewhouse efficiency is going to be.

You generally estimate 70% efficiency, but you will really have no idea.

Hopefully your plugging your data into some sort of software (free or paid), so you know exactly what your home efficiency is going to be.

After 3 or 4 brews, you'll have an average of what efficiency your brewhouse will produce. Then you can increase your grain bill to match your target OG.

You most likely did everything right, you just need more data.

 

[J343MY]

just brewed this as my first all grain brew. boiled down from 6.5 to a little less than 5.5 gals. i could not get amarillo as i wished so subbed in simcoe.
.75 simcoe at fwh
four additions during boil of 1oz citra and .25oz simcoe
flame out of same.
currently immersion chilling
lookin' good so far. i'll get a SG in a bit.

*gah! i only hit .060 with a mere 4 gallons. i added enough clean water to take me up to 5 gal, and i suspect this would be an original gravity of .057
with 75% attenutaion i might get an ABV of 5.6

could this be a pH issue? i didnt add the pH boost powder to the mash, just straight R/O water.
im not complaining if i get 5.6 abv, was just hoping to reach target, and i didnt.

If you had 4 gallons at 1.060 and you topped it up with water to 5, your original gravity is actually 1.048. You would have probably been better off just rolling with 4 gals.

your lower efficiency is probably not a ph issue. Most likely it is a bad crush, and/or a mash/sparge technique issue. For your first all grain batch, don't stress out too much. With more experience you will get better.

 

[te-wa]

thanks for the input. it started off bad, using brewer's friend program to get my strike water. for my amount of grains (exact as listed by the OP) they tell me to use 4.5 gal of water @ 167.5 to hit a mash of 154. this includes the predicted fall in temp due to mash tun "in"-efficiency.
my mash was actually around 149 until i very carefully stirred in a bit of near-boiling water to bring it up to 154.
i did a batch sparge.

there was so much trub and hop junk in the kettle that i was only able to rack off a bit more than 4 gallons of wort.

i just topped it off with clean water and then added 9oz of table sugar (which i hope does no damage to product, it should dry it out slightly, right?) but i think it will be ok for a hoppy pale like this.

i'll pay closer attention to the details of all grain and i expect to do a few batches that are not 'perfect' until my methods become habit.

 

[donjonson]

My all citra batch was kegged with 4oz citra in the keg. It was a fantastic beer and tasted fresh for over 2 months. Still the best IPA I've made so far.

FWIW, the citra I purchased from William's was tropical, fresh, and outstanding. The citra from Northern (think it was Hopunion) was a little muted and a tiny bit catty. I mixed the two and the beer still turned out great, but I think next time I'll get them all from Williams. This was earlier this year with the 2012 harvest, I'm guessing.

Can you dry hop in keg and just leave the hops in there forever or should I take them out at some point?

 

[te-wa]

Can you dry hop in keg and just leave the hops in there forever or should I take them out at some point?

if i may, here's what i do... i use no-see-um mesh (think tent fabric) that you can get from Joann and i sew a small, square hop sack with polyester thread. then tie a 3' length of dental floss to the full bag and it is so flat it will not cause gas to leak from the keg. pull it out when you get the hop flavor you desire. cost? about $4 a yard.

 

[donjonson]

if i may, here's what i do... i use no-see-um mesh (think tent fabric) that you can get from Joann and i sew a small, square hop sack with polyester thread. then tie a 3' length of dental floss to the full bag and it is so flat it will not cause gas to leak from the keg. pull it out when you get the hop flavor you desire. cost? about $4 a yard.

Interesting! I will have to try it that way. I have a few questions..

Do you sanitize the bag before dry hopping?

Do you dry hip at room temp or chilled?

Do you dry hop with the keg under pressure or not?

Is it possible to leave the hops in too long and get off flavors?


Thanks!

 

[te-wa]

i sanitize just my hands and the bag with starsan. you can sanitize the hop package and scizzors, too.

i put hops in keg, then chill and pressurize. usually normal serving temps. i have only needed to dry hop for a 4-5 day period, no grassy flavor that i can tell.

 

[asgreen21]

Update on brew day.

12/7 - brewed. AG Batch.
83.86% - 2Row
6% - Munich 10L
3% - Crystal 30L
3% - Melanoiden
1% - Cara-pils
3.14 - Dextrose

Citra hops - First wort, whole hops (13.8 AA)
The rest were pellets @ (13.5 AA)

That puts my IBUs around 69...could possibly be lower, if I knew how old the hops were.


Water treated with Gypsum, Epsom Salts, Bake Soda & Chalk (CaCO3) to match Burton on Trent.
(amounts not listed, because they are dialed in for my location winter water source. Easy to get, just email your cities, water treatment plant.

Mashed 60min @ 148 for light body. Batched Sparge @ 168

Added Dextrose (corn sugar) @ 30 mins.

Est. OG=1.065; Measured OG=1.068.

Yeast=1.5L of WLP001; which i've heard rumored is/was (cira: 2012) 3F's house yeast.

How did the lower mash/001 yeast/dextrose change things? Seems like that'd get it pretty dry.

I often have issues getting my beers to finish totally so I was thinking about an approach like this.

 

[tschafer]

asgreen - Couldn't tell you brother.

Still bottle conditioning.

I won't know anything till late Jan.

My though process is this: My brew system, in winter, will average 64-72% efficiency.

So not only will the dextrose help achieve the light/dry body I want, it will pick up my OG if I did get the full desired conversion.

WLP001 - clean, neutral. Doesn't get in the way of the malt or hop. You can't go wrong.

But without a bottle of Dust, I couldn't tell you if my batch it's close or not. It's been too long since I taste one….SO if anyone want to send me a bottle or 2 that would be greatly appreciated


Tasted the Hydro..Citra goodness in the nose. Taste…Lip smacking, teeth rattling Citra. Not bitter though, just hoppy. Looking forward to tasting after bottle conditioning.

Anyway here's the numbers I got:

OG = 1.068
FG = 1.008
SRM = 7.4
IBU = 68
ABV = 7.9%

 

[skeezerpleezer]

asgreen - Couldn't tell you brother. Still bottle conditioning. I won't know anything till late Jan. My though process is this: My brew system, in winter, will average 64-72% efficiency. So not only will the dextrose help achieve the light/dry body I want, it will pick up my OG if I did get the full desired conversion. WLP001 - clean, neutral. Doesn't get in the way of the malt or hop. You can't go wrong. I'm not kidding when I heard that 001 is/was 3F house yeast circa. 2012. It could be different now, but I trust my source. But without a bottle of Dust, I couldn't tell you if my batch it's close or not. It's been too long since I taste one….SO if anyone want to send me a bottle or 2 that would be greatly appreciated Tasted the Hydro..Citra goodness in the nose. Taste…Lip smacking, teeth rattling Citra. Not bitter though, just hoppy. Looking forward to tasting after bottle conditioning. Anyway here's the numbers I got: OG = 1.068 FG = 1.008 SRM = 7.4 IBU = 68 ABV = 7.9%

Everywhere I have seen has said that 1968 is their house yeast. Not sure of all of the sources. Where Did you hear it was 001?

 

[tschafer]

UPDATE! I stand corrected skeezer, I just contacted my source, he said it's a london ale yeast, most likely 1968. Your right...And i'm kind of bummed, cause I would have bet he said 001 and that's what I used...oh well, hydro still tasted awesome.

 

[FATC1TY]

3f uses 1968 as their house strain for sure.

So does sweetwater and cigar city.

 

[dustinstriplin]

I'm gonna brew this next weekend. What temp do you ferment the S-04 at? I see a temp for the 1968, but not for S-04.

 

[ja09]

I'm gonna brew this next weekend. What temp do you ferment the S-04 at? I see a temp for the 1968, but not for S-04.

I set mine to 63 then upped the temp daily after high krausen. Came out perfect. This is a great recipe if you have quality Citra.

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