3 FLoyds Zombie Dust attempt. Help/info requested

[skeezerpleezer]

If anyone has had this beer, they know why I am asking for input. It has moved up to the top of the APA rankings on beeradvocate for good reason. http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/26/64228

Does anyone have any information other than it is a Single Hop (Citra), 6.2%, 50 ibu APA?


***It seems we are getting somewhere on this clone. After a couple revisions, here is the updated Recipe--(I removed the original to avoid any confusion):

Batch Size: 6 gallons
Estimated Original Gravity: 1.065
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.018
Estimated Color: 8.5 SRM
Bitterness: 65.9 IBU
Mash Temp: 154 F
60 min boil

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.75 lb 2 Row (2.0 SRM) Grain 81.7 %
1.13 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 7.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.5 %
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 17.0 IBU***
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 21.1 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 15.4 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 8.5 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 5-7 days) Hops - (used to say 10, i use 5-7 now)
SafAle English Ale (S-04) **
London ESB 1968**

**For the first batch with this recipe, I split it and used the 2 different yeasts (S-04 and S-05). The S-04 was closer to the real Zombie Dust. The S-04 is fruitier, and had a bit higher FG (1.018 ) that the S-05 (dryer, more bitterness). I have also used 1968 and it was similar to the S-04, perhaps a bit fruitier and it was sweeter/higher FG. If using it I would recommend mashing a few degrees cooler. That said, I would recommend S-04 or 1968 at this time.

Here is the extract conversion for anyone interested:

6.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 70.6 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 12.5 IBU***
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 5-7 days) Hops - (used to say 10, i use 5-7 now)
SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04)
or
Wyeast 1968
Ferm temp-62-64

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.066 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.018 SG
Estimated Color: 9.0 SRM
Bitterness: 65.2 IBU

Steep the grains at in the mid 150s for 45-60 minutes. It is assuming a 5 gallon batch, 3 gallon - 60 minute boil, and adding the extract at the beginning. If you can do a full boil you probably wouldn't need the extra oz at 60minutes.

***The FWH ibus were calculated based on a 20 min boil to more accurately calculate the perceived bitterness (you can set boil time on FWH on Beersmith)....If you do not make this change, your IBUs will probably show as being higher. The actual beer bitterness/flavor will not.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

30 minutes till mash in. Any suggestions?

 

[NorthSide]

i love this beer, and can't wait till they bottle it. as far as your recipe goes, it looks good to me. citra is definitely what i taste and smell, you may need more in the flavor additions, but your guess is as good as mine. and your idea about wheat sounds good too. brew it up!

 

[skibb]

The haziness can just be from the tons of hops used in the beer, it doesn't necessarily mean they used wheat, and from what I recall when I drank it, it had terrible head retention...but that coulda just been from dirty lines.

 

[NorthSide]

also, a lot of the three floyds beers i've seen clone recipes of use a small amount of malanoidin malt...

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Ok, so I stopped in the bar and had a couple pints of Zombie Dust before the brew session. It looks like around 7.5-8 SRM, so I added subbed some Munich for 2-row to hit 7.5. Also, a friend decided to join, so this is going to be an 11g batch. Unfortunately, I only brought 9oz of Citra with me to the brew site, or I'd take Northside's advice and add some more flavor additions. Don't have time to run home to grab more Citra (~1hr driving there and back), so I'll see how this goes. Would it be beneficial to move some of the 1 minute addition to the 15 minute flavor addition, then make up for it with dryhops? I have another lb or so Citra at home so that is no problem.

 

[NorthSide]

that's what i did last time i decided to up my flavor hops at the last minute, i just threw the hops i intended to use for aroma in and got some at a later date for dry hopping when the beer is in secondary. maybe you could try 15, 10, 5, and 1 min additions with the most going in between 15 and 10.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

How does this look for the hops:

2.50 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 23.2 IBU
1.50 oz Citra [12.40%] (20 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 18.7 IBU
2.50 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 17.0 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 4.7 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.0 IBU
6.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -

It is now a double batch. IBUs calculated to 64 IBU, which is a little higher than what FFF says, but still about a 1:1 ratio.

 

[NorthSide]

that looks great!

 

[dbals]

Keep us posted!

 

[bthomas9]

That look awesome, when are you planning to brew it? It's a little similar to the Citra-Amarillo I'm putting together (with nice feedback from you!)

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I brewed it last saturday, it is fermenting now and smells wonderful. I'll probably start the dryhop next weekend. I'll update when I pull a sample out.

 

[kshuler]

Very curious to see how this is going to turn out. Just bought a pound of Citra. Thinking of doing this as a next brew if it is good.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

It is done fermenting, still in the primary. I will probably start dryhop tomorrow or early next week, and dryhop for 7-10 days. I will update when I get a sample pulled.

 

[Hockyplr]

Having never tried this beer, but reading a lot about it, it sounded tasty! So I started a batch 5/28/2011. Since this is only a 5 gallon batch I went with 2.5 ounces of Citra for the dry hopping. I'd say I am going for about 10 days for dry hopping, then it will be placed in a keg to let age for a few more weeks.

I wil let everyone know how my 5 gallon batch comes out.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Sorry, I have been slacking on the update. Took a vacation out to California to visit Russian River and Lagunitas and am still getting back on track.

I found out that one of my local beer bars has a keg of Zombie Dust that will be tapped this week, so I held off and started the Dry-hop 6/3. I plan to dryhop for 10 days also, but I will force carb a liter or so Wed, and take it to the bar Thursday for a taste test. From the sample I pulled I can say the color is there and the smell is right on. I think the taste is pretty close, I will update again after the side by side (hopefully with pictures.)

Also- I talked to Lincoln Anderson (from 3 Floyds) at an event a couple weeks ago. He made it sound like Zombie Dust would be going to bottles as previously reported. One problem is that Citra hops are becoming harder to get and they are a proprietary strain.

 

[Hockyplr]

I actually brewed mine on 5/22 and dry hopped 5/28. It has been 10 days, wondering if I should leave it be or rack it to a third carboy then re-rack to a keg, force carb and wait a few weeks or drink it right away....

Suggestions?

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I do a similar gravity and ibu ipa that is great after a month, yours may still be a bit young at 16 days though. Have you tasted it yet? My zombie dust attempt is 3.5 weeks old and pretty good. If I was you I would rack into a keg and skip the carboy; no use racking anymore than you have to. If it tastes good carb it up. It can always age in the keg.

 

[Hockyplr]

I decided to wait another 24 - 48 hours then I will each to a keg and let it sit for a week it two.

I haven't tasted it yet....but I did sniff it and it smells pretty damn good!

 

[PseudoChef]

Is this a staple at the brewpub? I'll be driving through next Monday and have two empty 3F growlers...

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I know it used to only be available at the brewpub, but a few kegs have been leaking out to the Chicago market. I would definitely recommend stopping in and checking, it is good stuff.

Here is the tap list, not sure how up to date it is : http://www.3floyds.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/current-beer-menu15.html

The Ragnarock is awesome if you haven't had it.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Ok, I just returned from the tasting/comparison at the bar. A couple notes:
The homebrew is 3.5 weeks old, not sure about the keg, probably a few months. The homebrew had not been cold crashed, and was force carbed in a 2L bottle with a homeade carb-cap; real ZD had probably been cold crashed and racked off yeast for awhile.

That said, the aroma was very close to the original, however the homebrew had a stronger smell. Head retention was far better in the homebrew. Color was a little light; perhaps 1-1.5 SRM. Homebrew was a little cloudier (see above?). Homebrew was a little more bitter (but fresher?). Flavor was very close. Homebrew was a little dryer/less body. I would love to age it another month and do another side by side, but given the availability of ZD, it may be hard to do. Also, after burying my nose in both for a couple hours, I seemed to get a slight honey type smell from the real ZD that was not present in the homebrew.

Soooooo, for the next go around I will probably:
-mash a couple degrees higher; say 155 or so
-sub .5 lbs of honey malt in place of wheat malt

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Here is the side by side picture

 

[Hockyplr]

So mine has been sitting in a keg, uncarbed, in the refrigerator for at least 5 days now. Thinking should maybe carb it and continue to let it sit in the refrigerator for another week or so.

Any suggestions once going to keg of carbing right away and allowing it to age or keg, let it age then carb?

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I vote for carb it and see how it is. Then report back.

 

[HoppyCodeMonkey]

I just kegged a 5 gallon batch tonight. I used 1/2 lb of Melanoidin instead of wheat. This was also my first all-grain brew in a 5 gallon cooler mash tun.

Mine turned out way too light due to low starting gravity and high attenuation. This is a mango/grapefruit blonde with a kick. I started at 1.055 and ended at 1.08. The recipe from BeerTools was supposed to be 1.063 down to 1.016.

I'm also going to bump up my mash temperature a few degrees next time hoping it finishes higher.

It's been a few weeks since I've had a real ZD from FFF but I think the bitterness and flavor is close, I just need to hit the right starting gravity and not have 85% attenuation!

Definitely going to give this another shot with the Malanoidin.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Hoppycodemonkey- what temp did you mash at? I am thinking of trying another 2-3g batch tomorrow and am trying to solidify the recipe. I may go the melanoiden route also.

 

[HoppyCodeMonkey]

152F but I didn't really check on it during the hour, nor did I stir it like I have with subsequent batches. My cooler seems to drop more than 2 degrees per hour.

I think next time I'll do 155F like I just did with a heavier Oberon clone. I have a feeling this Oberon clone will have the body I wanted the Zombie dust to have.

 

[Hockyplr]

I carrbed mine and drank a few pints of it. Wow! What an excellent beer. Great floral/fruity smell. Taste of Grapefruit, Passion Fruit, a little lemon, this beer definitely has it all. Quickly becoming one of my favorites. Nice simple recipe yet damn good results. Two pictures below:

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Thanks for the feedback. I agree it is an awesome brew, not a "clone" but good. A couple more shots at it and we can nail this down.

 

[Joetuo]

Skeezer can you edit the top post to reflect the most currant version of the recipe you are on? The brew looks fantastic, I plan on making it my next batch.

 

[Hockyplr]

My pictures/current batch is the first post recipe. Looking at the real deal, I would say cut out or at least down the white wheat, as to gain more of the 60L color. Either way, the recipe is good and I brewed another batch last night without change.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I didn't get around to brewing it again yet, but will update the 1st post with pics and updates when I get back on my pc.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I have a few lbs of Citra on order, so when I get them I'll brew the next attempt. I decided to hold off on the honey malt this time, but made a few changes:

10.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.8 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 7.7 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.8 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.8 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.8 %
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 24.0 IBU
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (20 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 19.3 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 17.5 IBU
0.67 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 5.2 IBU
0.67 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
1 Pkgs California Ale (DCL Yeast #S-05) Yeast-Ale

Original Gravity: 1.064 SG
Final Gravity: 1.017 SG
Estimated Color: 8.7 SRM
Bitterness: 67.2 IBU

I will be mashing 155-156

 

[Traffic]

Looks great!

Can you guys post your final recipes with what you have learned? I want to give this brew a try this weekend!

 

[Traffic]

I have a few lbs of Citra on order, so when I get them I'll brew the next attempt. I decided to hold off on the honey malt this time, but made a few changes:

10.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.8 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 7.7 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.8 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.8 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.8 %
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 24.0 IBU
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (20 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 19.3 IBU
1.25 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 17.5 IBU
0.67 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 5.2 IBU
0.67 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
1 Pkgs California Ale (DCL Yeast #S-05) Yeast-Ale

Original Gravity: 1.064 SG
Final Gravity: 1.017 SG
Estimated Color: 8.7 SRM
Bitterness: 67.2 IBU

I will be mashing 155-156

Thanks! Can't wait to give this a try! I had Zombie Dust at Dark Lord Day and it was an amazingly good beer (Although I'm admittedly somewhat of a FFF-anboy )

 

[scottland]

If anyone has had this beer, they know why I am asking for input. It has moved up to the top of the APA rankings on beeradvocate for good reason. http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/26/64228

6.2% and 56IBU, is an IPA, not a pale ale. I see so many beers in the wrong categories these days.

 

[skibb]

But what about Alpha King? The beer is 6.5% and 66 IBU, and is listed/considered to be an American Pale ale. I wouldn't follow the categories so astringently, they are more like guidelines, and commercial breweries that brew beers like these help define those.

My 2-cents on the recipe: def eliminate the wheat malt, and I feel like 1.017 is just too high of a FG. When thinking back on this beer, it had a bit more of a dry finish, though I'm not sure its as far down as 1.012, 1.013.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I planned to increase mash temp because the first time i brewed this it dried out to .009-.010. I agree, 1.013 or so would be a good place to end. I am also one that cares more about beer quality than fitting in the guidelines. Hell, some of the better Imperial IPAs like Maharaja, Pliny the Elder and Younger, and Dogfish Head120 minute all fall outside the guidelines also.

 

[scottland]

But what about Alpha King? The beer is 6.5% and 66 IBU, and is listed/considered to be an American Pale ale.

Sorry, that's an IPA as well. 66IBU? There's no way you can call a beer with 66IBU an American pale ale. That's 50-100% more than it should be.