2nd try at hard cider (lots of questions)

[bubseymour]

Last fall I bought a quart of cider from the orchard, unscrewed the cap and let it sit in my basement for about 10 days. Screwed the cap back on and let it sit in basement for another 6 weeks. ABV leveled at 5% and initially tasting it was very complex, quite funky (which I like), dry with moderate sourness. Overall quite good. I sampled part of the quart at 1st but kept putting the partial remaining quart in the fridge and sampling it down over next 3 weeks or so. Eventually it began to get worse tasting with more off flavors and more "vinegar" like over time.

So now my questions:
1) What made it get progressively bad tasting over the 3 weeks in the fridge and how to prevent this next time around? Would bottling and capping individual 12oz bottles be the better route and then I can sample individually over aged time?
2) If I follow my similar simple recipe this year, when would I transfer from the quart bottle to bottling/capping in 12oz bottles?
3) I plan to buy several quarts this year to try several different experimental ciders. Would like to try to dry hop 1quart with citra. When would I add in a teabag of citra to the process?
4) Was thinking with one of the quart bottles to add another fruit juice at some point (rasberry is what I was thinking would be good as I like rasberry wild ales/lambics) to add a sweetness/complexity to the end product. How/when would I add fruit juice to the process?

Thanks in advance.

 

[whovous]

Take off the cap and let it sit at 50F rather than room temp. Don't do anything else.

 

[CKuhns]

So now my questions:
"1) What made it get progressively bad tasting over the 3 weeks in the fridge and how to prevent this next time around? Would bottling and capping individual 12oz bottles be the better route and then I can sample individually over aged time?"

1- You made cider vinegar. By opening and sampling you introduced air and cider vinegar is just that. Oxidation from the air to the cider. Yes, bottling and capping would be best to solve that.

"2) If I follow my similar simple recipe this year, when would I transfer from the quart bottle to bottling/capping in 12oz bottles?"

2- When the ferment is done, the only real way to tell is to use a hydrometer and if near 1.000 a week apart you would be good.

"3) I plan to buy several quarts this year to try several different experimental ciders. Would like to try to dry hop 1quart with citra. When would I add in a teabag of citra to the process?"

3- I personally prefer adding hops "dry" after fermentation is complete and remove them after 5 to 6 days. But tate along the way they get kind of strong after a bit.

"4) Was thinking with one of the quart bottles to add another fruit juice at some point (rasberry is what I was thinking would be good as I like rasberry wild ales/lambics) to add a sweetness/complexity to the end product. How/when would I add fruit juice to the process?"

4- Thats a bit more of a complex answer. Many others will have differing opinions. The best way is to try it at various points in the process. Personnally, i would go with a half pound of fresh raspberries for 10 days after fermentation is complete. Then remove them.

 

[Miraculix]

So now my questions:
"1) What made it get progressively bad tasting over the 3 weeks in the fridge and how to prevent this next time around? Would bottling and capping individual 12oz bottles be the better route and then I can sample individually over aged time?"

1- You made cider vinegar. By opening and sampling you introduced air and cider vinegar is just that. Oxidation from the air to the cider. Yes, bottling and capping would be best to solve that.

"2) If I follow my similar simple recipe this year, when would I transfer from the quart bottle to bottling/capping in 12oz bottles?"

2- When the ferment is done, the only real way to tell is to use a hydrometer and if near 1.000 a week apart you would be good.

"3) I plan to buy several quarts this year to try several different experimental ciders. Would like to try to dry hop 1quart with citra. When would I add in a teabag of citra to the process?"

3- I personally prefer adding hops "dry" after fermentation is complete and remove them after 5 to 6 days. But tate along the way they get kind of strong after a bit.

"4) Was thinking with one of the quart bottles to add another fruit juice at some point (rasberry is what I was thinking would be good as I like rasberry wild ales/lambics) to add a sweetness/complexity to the end product. How/when would I add fruit juice to the process?"

4- Thats a bit more of a complex answer. Many others will have differing opinions. The best way is to try it at various points in the process. Personnally, i would go with a half pound of fresh raspberries for 10 days after fermentation is complete. Then remove them.

This!

And just one small addition regarding point one, vinegar is not oxidised cider. It is the oxygen that enabled the vinegar producing bacterias to thrive on the alcohol in the cider and turn it into vinegar.

So by bottling it when fermentation is done, you would remove access to oxygen so those micro organisms are not able to turn the alcohol into vinegar.

Next time this happens, your could just let it run its course and produce some home made cider vinegar. Your can add some spices (or leave them out) and user or for salads and for cooking!

But otherwise, is better to keep oxygen exposure to a minimum. Some funk producing yeasts benefit from small amounts of oxygen on the long run when aging the cider, but this is a whole different story.

 

[whovous]

If you are going to ferment without yeast you should try to hold the temp around 50F. It may take about two months at this temp but it will taste better.

 

[bubseymour]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I have a specialty fridge already set at 50F so will definitely ferment in the fridge vs. in my 68-70F basement. Also I was reading that once fermentation has completed, you should rack off the lees. Assuming if I go to bottling, I should not bottle the "bottom/dead yeasts, residue, lees (whatever you call the bottom muck).

I really do like some sourness and funk in my cider, so will I still get this by following some of these tips above? My batch last year was delicious at first (a full 32 oz crowler/so minimal oxygen) but when my 32oz glass crowler spent weeks in the fridge only 1/2 full, 1/4 full, that is when it started to turn bad after a few weeks, assuming too much oxidation was occurring. So perhaps bottling/capping will solve this issue as stated. Learning alot, greatly appreciate.

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I have a specialty fridge already set at 50F so will definitely ferment in the fridge vs. in my 68-70F basement. Also I was reading that once fermentation has completed, you should rack off the lees. Assuming if I go to bottling, I should not bottle the "bottom/dead yeasts, residue, lees (whatever you call the bottom muck).

I really do like some sourness and funk in my cider, so will I still get this by following some of these tips above? My batch last year was delicious at first (a full 32 oz crowler/so minimal oxygen) but when my 32oz glass crowler spent weeks in the fridge only 1/2 full, 1/4 full, that is when it started to turn bad after a few weeks, assuming too much oxidation was occurring. So perhaps bottling/capping will solve this issue as stated. Learning alot, greatly appreciate.

As already stated, this was not due to oxidation, this was due to microorganisms turning your alcohol into vinegar. They are only able to do this properly when oxygen is present, so removing the access to oxygen, after fermentation really started to roll, is key.

 

[bracconiere]

a quart shouldn't last 3 weeks....just my two cents....(what's that 3 drinks?) lol

edit: i bet a 40oz of beer would go off, if you only opened it for a sip everyday,

 

[ericbw]

Make SURE it is completely fermented before bottling. Otherwise you get exploding bottles.