2nd Brew - bottle or barrel?

[TwoTonTed]

My first brew, a Coopers beginners kit (English Bitter), has been bottled for 3 or 4 weeks and tastes pretty good!

My second brew is now 10 days in the FV and the gravity is now down to 1005, so keeping an eye on this, it's still very cloudy sitting around 64-66F. It's a Woodford's Wherry Beer kit.

What do most of you do when it's ready? Bottle it or store it in a pressurised barrel? Advantages of either approach?

Thanks.

 

[RM-MN]

Yes. I've left beer sit in the fermenter (unpressurized, just a plastic bucket with a lid) for up to 9 weeks although I usually bottle it sooner. Leaving the beer in the fermenter vessel allows it to mature and for the yeast to settle out so you don't get it into the bottles. Once bottled I also let the beer sit for some time, usually at least 3 weeks. That time matures the beer and allows production of the proteins that make a nice, long lasting head on my beer. Opening bottles early gets me mostly fizz that dissipates quickly.

 

[TwoTonTed]

thanks, are you carbonating the bottles, I assume so? Being new, this has left me wondering. I like traditional English Ales, with no fizz, straight from a barrel, if the pub has it. Assume if I dont carbonate it, this is what I'll get?

 

[VikeMan]

thanks, are you carbonating the bottles, I assume so? Being new, this has left me wondering. I like traditional English Ales, with no fizz, straight from a barrel, if the pub has it. Assume if I dont carbonate it, this is what I'll get?

Sounds like you're talking about cask ale. Cask ales generally are carbonated, but usually at fairly low levels. Serving from a cask isn't the same as leaving your beer in the primary fermenter. Eventually, some things in the trub at the bottom of your fermenter will start to change into other things that don't taste good. (Just wanted to make sure we aren't conflating fermenter with "barrel.")

If you want to package in a cask and carbonate it there, that's another thing. But you'd need some specialized equipment for serving. IMO, it would be pretty ambitious for one's second batch of beer.

And, yes, you could bottle your beer without carbonating it. It would be flat... flatter than what you're probably getting from casks at the pub. But there's no technical reason that you couldn't do it. Another option would be to carbonate to a low level. You can vary the carbonation level by varying the amount of priming sugar used.

 

[VikeMan]

Once bottled I also let the beer sit for some time, usually at least 3 weeks. That time matures the beer and allows production of the proteins that make a nice, long lasting head on my beer.

Probably deserves a separate thread, but... what proteins are "produced" during carbonation? And how?

 

[TwoTonTed]

thanks VikeMan, think I'll stick to keeping things simple - hadn't thought about carbonating to a lower level, interested to know that even cask ales have a degree of carbonation. So, if I get a pressurised barrel, I can move my brew to that, carbonate it in the barrel and then drink directly without bottling? Sorry if this is a dumb question!

 

[VikeMan]

So, if I get a pressurised barrel, I can move my brew to that, carbonate it in the barrel and then drink directly without bottling?

Yes, you can. But you'll need to get more than just the barrel, such as a hand pump for dispensing, if you want to go the traditional cask serving route. If you want to go with a more modern keg, you'll need a faucet, a CO2 cylinder, and various other hardware.

 

[RM-MN]

Probably deserves a separate thread, but... what proteins are "produced" during carbonation? And how?

Bad choice of words on my part. The proteins are already in the beer but something happens to them like linking. Anyway, beers that are opened early don't form a decent head. Try one of yours at day 2 and see what I mean.

 

[VikeMan]

Bad choice of words on my part. The proteins are already in the beer but something happens to them like linking. Anyway, beers that are opened early don't form a decent head. Try one of yours at day 2 and see what I mean.

I know what you mean, but as far as I know it's not directly protein related. It has been widely speculated that it has something to do with CO2 hydration.

 

[RM-MN]

I think the heading on beer is a lot like meringue which is proteins as there is no CO2 involved in that.

 

[VikeMan]

I think the heading on beer is a lot like meringue which is proteins as there is no CO2 involved in that.

Proteins do provide part of the "scaffolding" for foam. But the way CO2 breaks out of solution influences the foam formation in the first place. And CO2 is what's inside of those foam bubbles (very tiny bubbles in the case of the meringue like head).

Anyway, if you have any sources that indicate proteins are being re-arranged in any way during bottle conditioning, I'd be very interested in reading them!

 

[TwoTonTed]

Yes, you can. But you'll need to get more than just the barrel, such as a hand pump for dispensing, if you want to go the traditional cask serving route. If you want to go with a more modern keg, you'll need a faucet, a CO2 cylinder, and various other hardware.

ok thanks, looks like I've got a lot of learning to do, better stick to bottling in the meantime!

 

[TwoTonTed]

as an aside, I've just sterilized a load of plastic 750ml bottles ready to refill in a day or so. They've drained for a while but still wet inside. Is it ok to leave them with the screw caps off, upright, so they finish drying naturally? The caps have also been sterilized.

 

[VikeMan]

Is it ok to leave them with the screw caps off, upright, so they finish drying naturally?

Not really. I wouldn't leave the bottles exposed, at least not for long.

 

[TwoTonTed]

thanks, caps back on, dont suppose it matters if they are a bit damp inside when I fill them?

 

[VikeMan]

thanks, caps back on, dont suppose it matters if they are a bit damp inside when I fill them?

No, it doesn't really matter.

 

[TwoTonTed]

have bottled my beer and a sip or two along the process reveals a nice taste, although it's flat.

Talking of which I am using the carb drops, 2 per 750lm bottle. Is it just 2 days that I now leave these for the 2nd fermentation? I have a choice which place to leave them for this. 1. a room at around 23C (73F) or 2. another place at around 18C (64F).

Which is better please?

 

[VikeMan]

Talking of which I am using the carb drops, 2 per 750lm bottle. Is it just 2 days that I now leave these for the 2nd fermentation? I have a choice which place to leave them for this. 1. a room at around 23C (73F) or 2. another place at around 18C (64F).

73F will be faster, but 64F will probably work too. I'd say 73F is fine for bottle carbonating for most yeast strains. It will take closer to two weeks (not two days) to carbonate. The exact time is impossible to say, because there are so many factors.

 

[TwoTonTed]

thanks, I realise that it takes 2 weeks sorry, what I meant to say is that I thought they only need 2 days in a warm place at one of these temps, then I can move them elsewhere? I have an outside stone built shed where I store my beers.

 

[TwoTonTed]

I've actually managed to find a space for the bottles at 71F (21.5C) where they have now been for 2 days. Should I leave them in this place at this temperature for much longer, like a few weeks, or can they be moved to my shed sooner? Thanks.

 

[VikeMan]

I've actually managed to find a space for the bottles at 71F (21.5C) where they have now been for 2 days. Should I leave them in this place at this temperature for much longer, like a few weeks, or can they be moved to my shed sooner? Thanks.

What temperature is your shed? The bottles need to stay warm until carbonation is finished..

 

[TwoTonTed]

ah ok, it's prob less than 60F at the mo, is that too cool? I can always leave the bottles in the house around 70F for the next couple of weeks?

 

[VikeMan]

ah ok, it's prob less than 60F at the mo, is that too cool?

Possibly. Even if it's not too cool, it will take longer.

I can always leave the bottles in the house around 70F for the next couple of weeks?

I would keep them at that temp until they are fully carbonated.

 

[TwoTonTed]

Something weird is happening. The Ale has cleared in the plastic 750ml bottles, but when cooled in the fridge, a cloudiness returns? It was bottled 20 days ago.

 

[TwoTonTed]

a second comment on trying one bottle now is that it doesnt appear to have carbonated; it tastes very flat even though there were 2 carbonation drops added per bottle. As the bottles are used for a second time, is it possible that I didnt screw the caps on firmly enough?!

 

[VikeMan]

Something weird is happening. The Ale has cleared in the plastic 750ml bottles, but when cooled in the fridge, a cloudiness returns? It was bottled 20 days ago.

If the haze is not there when warm, but is there when cold, that's Chill Haze, which is basically clumps of proteins and polyphenols.

 

[TwoTonTed]

is Chill Haze good or bad?! Any comment on the carbonation matter I rasied too?

Thanks

 

[VikeMan]

is Chill Haze good or bad?!

Most people try to avoid it. But it mostly just affects appearance.

Any comment on the carbonation matter I rasied too?

a second comment on trying one bottle now is that it doesnt appear to have carbonated; it tastes very flat even though there were 2 carbonation drops added per bottle. As the bottles are used for a second time, is it possible that I didnt screw the caps on firmly enough?!

Yes, if not capped tightly, it's possible for the CO2 to escape.

 

[TwoTonTed]

thanks VikeMan. I guess that longer term I need to collect more glass bottles and crown cap them for a better seal, rather than not re-use plastic ones?