American Lager 2013 NHC Bronze Medal Winner: Classic American Pilsner

[pjj2ba]

Recipe Type

All Grain

Yeast

wlp 833 (bock)

Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter

slurry

Batch Size (Gallons)

5

Original Gravity

1.063

Final Gravity

1.012

Boiling Time (Minutes)

90

IBU

36.2

Color

4.4

Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)

14

Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)

7

Additional Fermentation

42 days of lagering

Tasting Notes

3rd place pilsner 2013 NHC final round

Uncle Bob's Old Timey Lager

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
69.7% 5.75 lbs. Pilsner Canada 1.037 2
18.2% 1.50 lbs. Flaked Corn (Maize) America 1.040 1
6.1% 0.50 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.036 25
6.1% 0.50 lbs. Wheat Malt Germany 1.039 2

* caution * grain weights are based on 92% efficiency. Go by percentages and adjust for your efficiency

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.00 g. Magnum Whole 20.50 31.1 First WH
18.00 g. Crystal Whole 4.60 3.4 15 min.
14.00 g. Crystal Whole 4.60 1.6 5 min.

protein rest 20 min at 122 F
sacch rest for 30 min. at 147 F
Dextrin rest for 15 min. at 160 F
Mash out at 168 F, no rest

Pitched and fermented at 50 F

 

[Pappers_]

Congratulations! Huzzah! And thanks for sharing the recipe. I've changed the title of your recipe thread to indicate that it medaled at the NHC.

 

[Magic8Ball]

Ahh ha its is you! pjj2ba Well done indeed! Major WOOOT! I will have to try your recipe.

 

[plainbrad]

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.00 g. Magnum Whole 20.50 31.1 First WH
18.00 g. Crystal Whole 4.60 3.4 15 min.
14.00 g. Crystal Whole 4.60 1.6 5 min.

I loooove Crystal hops in a pilsner!

 

[IslandLizard]

Congrats with winning a medal!
I didn't realize it was you. Darn nyms...

And thanks for the recipe.

 

[DPBISME]

I will have to try this.... but I am having trouble translating the hop additions...


Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight-------Type-------------IBU -----?????------Time
10.00 g--------Magnum Whole---20.50-----31.1-------First WH
18.00 g--------Crystal Whole------4.60------3.4-------15 min.
14.00 g--------Crystal Whole------4.60------1.6--------5 min.

 

[Pappers_]

I will have to try this.... but I am having trouble translating the hop additions...


Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight-------Type-------------IBU -----?????------Time
10.00 g--------Magnum Whole---20.50-----31.1-------First WH
18.00 g--------Crystal Whole------4.60------3.4-------15 min.
14.00 g--------Crystal Whole------4.60------1.6--------5 min.

Using Magnum Whole as an example, 20.5 is the alpha acid content and 31.1 is the IBUs.

 

[pjj2ba]

Watch the grain bill. My efficiency is through the roof (92-95%) so go by the percentages

Yup, the red ????? is the IBU's per hop addition

 

[sweetcell]

Again: congrats

 

[DPBISME]

Using Magnum Whole as an example, 20.5 is the alpha acid content and 31.1 is the IBUs.

Ahhhh.... thanks!

I just did not get that for some reason.... headed home now and off to a beer tasting tonight...

 

[Yooper]

This is a wonderful CAP. I loved it.

 

[Warrior]

Uncle Bob's Old Timey Lager

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
69.7% 5.75 lbs. Pilsner Canada 1.037 2
18.2% 1.50 lbs. Flaked Corn (Maize) America 1.040 1
6.1% 0.50 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.036 25
6.1% 0.50 lbs. Wheat Malt Germany 1.039 2

* caution * grain weights are based on 92% efficiency. Go by percentages and adjust for your efficiency

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.00 g. Magnum Whole 20.50 31.1 First WH
18.00 g. Crystal Whole 4.60 3.4 15 min.
14.00 g. Crystal Whole 4.60 1.6 5 min.

protein rest 20 min at 122 F
sacch rest for 30 min. at 147 F
Dextrin rest for 15 min. at 160 F
Mash out at 168 F, no rest

Pitched and fermented at 50 F

It was great seeing you win that medal at Nationals! My voice was pretty shot most the next week from shouting after you won No doubt you brew some great beers!

 

[Weezy]

Thanks for posting this. It looks like a very nice recipe. I will be giving it a try.

 

[claphamsa]

its a good one.. and thanks for letting us all taste it

 

[Yooper]

its a good one.. and thanks for letting us all taste it

It was a good one!

And it was great seeing your name in Zymurgy today! With "homebrewtalk.com" as your homebrew club- that's awesome. :rockin:

 

[beernutz]

Watch the grain bill. My efficiency is through the roof (92-95%) so go by the percentages

Yup, the red ????? is the IBU's per hop addition

I could search your previous posts for clues but I'm lazy. Any tips on how you achieve such high efficiency?

 

[pjj2ba]

I could search your previous posts for clues but I'm lazy. Any tips on how you achieve such high efficiency?

Several reasons:

I mill quite finely - you need a good mash filter! I have a copper manifold with slots cut in it.
I carefully adjust my water pH for maximal enzyme activity. I treat my water to reduce the residual alkalinity (buffering capacity) and adjust the pH to ~5.4 - 5.5 with phosphoric acid - both mash water and sparge water

I mash a bit on the thin side (~1.75 quarts/lb). This gives me enough volume that I can get a nice runoff of the mash before adding any sparge water. After the mash is complete, I vorlauf and drain. Then I add 2.5 gal of sparge water, mix, vorlauf and drain. I add the final 2.5 gal, mix, vorlauf, and then drain. This last time is by gravity, the previous two drainings I use a pump to speed up the process.


Those three are the biggies. Below are some things that might make a little difference.

I use a protein rest - caution though, I use mainly pilsner malt. The endosperm is a martix of protein and starch. I believe doing a p-rest helps to break down the matrix (it is partially broken down during the malting process) which makes the starch more available to the enzymes

I also do step mashes. I think the benefit here is that I do the occasional mix of the mash as I heat

 

[beernutz]

Several reasons:

I mill quite finely - you need a good mash filter! I have a copper manifold with slots cut in it.
I carefully adjust my water pH for maximal enzyme activity. I treat my water to reduce the residual alkalinity (buffering capacity) and adjust the pH to ~5.4 - 5.5 with phosphoric acid - both mash water and sparge water

I mash a bit on the thin side (~1.75 quarts/lb). This gives me enough volume that I can get a nice runoff of the mash before adding any sparge water. After the mash is complete, I vorlauf and drain. Then I add 2.5 gal of sparge water, mix, vorlauf and drain. I add the final 2.5 gal, mix, vorlauf, and then drain. This last time is by gravity, the previous two drainings I use a pump to speed up the process.


Those three are the biggies. Below are some things that might make a little difference.

I use a protein rest - caution though, I use mainly pilsner malt. The endosperm is a martix of protein and starch. I believe doing a p-rest helps to break down the matrix (it is partially broken down during the malting process) which makes the starch more available to the enzymes

I also do step mashes. I think the benefit here is that I do the occasional mix of the mash as I heat

Thanks very much for filling in the details. I think at least initially I will start paying more attention to mash and sparge water pH as a new grain mill or new mash tun are not in the cards.

 

[Warrior]

Phil,

Got my PH meter and my water is at a 6.2 ph. Where do you buy your Phosphoric acid? I want to adjust the sparge water down to a 5.5 next brew and see if that helps me boost my effienceny some more I thought I was doing good at around 85% your getting great numbers! You used 8.5 lbs in the recipe, it would take me 9.5 lbs to get the same gravity as what your getting.

 

[sweetcell]

Phil,

Got my PH meter and my water is at a 6.2 ph. Where do you buy your Phosphoric acid? I want to adjust the sparge water down to a 5.5 next brew and see if that helps me boost my effienceny some more I thought I was doing good at around 85% your getting great numbers! You used 8.5 lbs in the recipe, it would take me 9.5 lbs to get the same gravity as what your getting.

so you'll buy a $3 bottle of acid so you can save $1 on grain? :cross:

 

[Warrior]

I think it can be bought fairly cheap. I brew 24 gal batchs and would save 5 lbs of grain. Check out this old discussion from here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/where-do-i-get-85-food-grade-phosphoric-acid-266035/

 

[HopRodGR]

Congrats on your medal, that's a really huge accomplishment. I had a couple of questions I'm hoping you can provide your thoughts on.

1) What kind of water profile do you favor for your CAP?

2) Your recipe says Canadian Pilsner malt. Is this the Canada Malting Superior Pils malt?

I just made a CAP that I thought was really solid with 6-row and polenta using Jeff Renner's pressure cooker cereal mash method, but I'm not yet sure if I'm liking the 6-row base. My water was pretty balanced, but I'm wondering if going with a little higher sulfate/chloride ratio, which would help accentuate the bitterness a bit more, is appropriate in this style, like in a German Pils.

Uncle Bob's Old Timey Lager

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
69.7% 5.75 lbs. Pilsner Canada 1.037 2
18.2% 1.50 lbs. Flaked Corn (Maize) America 1.040 1
6.1% 0.50 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.036 25
6.1% 0.50 lbs. Wheat Malt Germany 1.039 2

* caution * grain weights are based on 92% efficiency. Go by percentages and adjust for your efficiency

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.00 g. Magnum Whole 20.50 31.1 First WH
18.00 g. Crystal Whole 4.60 3.4 15 min.
14.00 g. Crystal Whole 4.60 1.6 5 min.

protein rest 20 min at 122 F
sacch rest for 30 min. at 147 F
Dextrin rest for 15 min. at 160 F
Mash out at 168 F, no rest

Pitched and fermented at 50 F

 

[hoppedup75]

Congrats on your medal at NHC! I know you must be very proud. I got to try this one out.

 

[pjj2ba]

I think it can be bought fairly cheap. I brew 24 gal batchs and would save 5 lbs of grain. Check out this old discussion from here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/where-do-i-get-85-food-grade-phosphoric-acid-266035/

A lot of homebrew stores carry a 10% solution. That lasts me about 15-20 batches (5 gal). After going though one bottle of that, I bought a 1 L bottle of 85% from DudaDiesel. I make a 10% solution from that to use. Using the 85% straight makes it easy to overshoot your target pH.

 

[pjj2ba]

Congrats on your medal, that's a really huge accomplishment. I had a couple of questions I'm hoping you can provide your thoughts on.

1) What kind of water profile do you favor for your CAP?

2) Your recipe says Canadian Pilsner malt. Is this the Canada Malting Superior Pils malt?

I just made a CAP that I thought was really solid with 6-row and polenta using Jeff Renner's pressure cooker cereal mash method, but I'm not yet sure if I'm liking the 6-row base. My water was pretty balanced, but I'm wondering if going with a little higher sulfate/chloride ratio, which would help accentuate the bitterness a bit more, is appropriate in this style, like in a German Pils.

Here is my water profile. I treat with pickling lime to reduce the alkalinity
pre and post water results

Yes, Superior pils. I really like this malt for adjunct beers. It is a little richer/sweeter than other pils malt I use. I find it helps the beer from being too thin, particularly in adjunct beers. It is also great for Oktoberfests and other richer/heavier lagers (and ales!) I use a continental pils malt for continental pils where I want more crispness.

I used to use a little 6-row to help with conversion, but found I didn't need it for that so have since dropped it

 

[HopRodGR]

Awesome, I think I'm going to go with the Superior Pils malt for my next version. I see you also use the 833 Bock yeast. I made a German Pils with it once that I thought didn't really nail the style, but it seems to work well in a CAP. Your water looks similar to what I used. I might hold off on changing it, don't want to adjust too many variables at once.

 

[beernutz]

A lot of homebrew stores carry a 10% solution. That lasts me about 15-20 batches (5 gal). After going though one bottle of that, I bought a 1 L bottle of 85% from DudaDiesel. I make a 10% solution from that to use. Using the 85% straight makes it easy to overshoot your target pH.

Dumb question I'm sure but what do you use to dilute the 85% down to 10%? Tap water? I see amazon has a 950ml bottle of the 85% food grade concentration for $25 which might be a lifetime supply for me.

When adding the 10% solution do you use something that delivers very small amounts like an eyedropper to add it to your mash and sparge water or are the amounts larger, like a teaspoon or more?

 

[pumpkinman2012]

Thanks for sharing your recipe! Congrats on winning!
I have a question about the hops, what would be the quantities if I were to use pellets, in case I cannot fine them whole?

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.00 g. Magnum Whole 20.50 31.1 First WH
18.00 g. Crystal Whole 4.60 3.4 15 min.
14.00 g. Crystal Whole 4.60 1.6 5 min.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Warrior]

Wait till you try that Durst Phil, your gonna love it!

 

[pjj2ba]

Awesome, I think I'm going to go with the Superior Pils malt for my next version. I see you also use the 833 Bock yeast. I made a German Pils with it once that I thought didn't really nail the style, but it seems to work well in a CAP. Your water looks similar to what I used. I might hold off on changing it, don't want to adjust too many variables at once.

Yeah, I wouldn't use 833 for a pils. It is great for O'fests, bocks - and American adjunct lagers where it helps to offset the extra lightness due to the adjuncts.

Dumb question I'm sure but what do you use to dilute the 85% down to 10%? Tap water? I see amazon has a 950ml bottle of the 85% food grade concentration for $25 which might be a lifetime supply for me.

When adding the 10% solution do you use something that delivers very small amounts like an eyedropper to add it to your mash and sparge water or are the amounts larger, like a teaspoon or more?

I dilute with tap water. I have disposable 1 piece eyedroppers (soft plastic) that I use - and reuse. They will hold up to 2 ml per load, but a typical suck up is about 1 ml. I use ~ 10 ml total.

Thanks for sharing your recipe! Congrats on winning!
I have a question about the hops, what would be the quantities if I were to use pellets, in case I cannot fine them whole?

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10.00 g. Magnum Whole 20.50 31.1 First WH
18.00 g. Crystal Whole 4.60 3.4 15 min.
14.00 g. Crystal Whole 4.60 1.6 5 min.

Thanks in advance!

Just pay attention to the bolded IBU values. Most of the IBU calculators will calculate the differences for whole vs pellets. In reality, just the FWH addition. I don't pay attention to the IBU's from the 15' and 5' additions (for lagers). Those amount are chosen based on how much flavor and aroma I want