20 lb of sugar and a jar of yeast nutrient

[Mothman]

How much will this last in the fridge? Or out of it? No idea how to store it, I will be doing this the day before brewday as I already do an step mash and I'm planning on adding a decoction to raise to mash out so I don't want to add one more step to brewday.

Will this last overnight?

Just keep in mind that if you do store it in the fridge, it might be a little hard to work with, as it will thicken more. Or , like in my case, on my first attempt I over cooked it, and after being in the fridge, it turned hard, like fudge.

I softened it by putting the jar in a pot of hot water and stirring occasionally, still turned out delicious.

I used the left over of that "fudge" as a coffee sweetener/flavouring. It was awesome. lol

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Commercial golden syrup and treacle gets left on ambient shelves for years in British homes - the worst that happens to it is that it can crystallise a bit after a few years. From an osmotic point of view it's almost the equivalent of salt.

 

[eimar]

Thanks both of you, I'm definitely swapping the candi rocks for a homemade syrup in my next dubbel

You'll like it.

 

[RoadKing]

I want to make an #8 batch of 290-300 of this for a 30 gallon batch of a Belgian strong. I read alot of the thread, but I wanna make sure...Is this 100% fermentable?

 

[z-bob]

I want to make an #8 batch of 290-300 of this for a 30 gallon batch of a Belgian strong. I read alot of the thread, but I wanna make sure...Is this 100% fermentable?

I think it's almost 100%.

 

[eimar]

From my latest batch of Saint Nicolas 8 dubbel: OG 1.074 FG 1.013 , 1.5 lb homemade dark candi syrup for a 5 gallons batch.. So I conclude that candi syrup is 100% fermentable .

 

[RoadKing]

Thanks guys. How do ya like using the syrup?

 

[eimar]

Thanks guys. How do ya like using the syrup?

I like it, combined with Wyeast Abbey II yeast it brings some plum flavor, like in Rochefort 8 ( my favorite beer )

Jacques

 

[cmac62]

At 290-300 it can't be 100% fermentable. There has to be some caramelized and maillard compounds that won't ferment, otherwise you would not get any flavor out of the dark stuff.

 

[z-bob]

At 290-300 it can't be 100% fermentable. There has to be some caramelized and maillard compounds that won't ferment, otherwise you would not get any flavor out of the dark stuff.

That's why I said almost 100%

 

[monkeymath]

The Belgian dubbel I made two years ago using the deep amber syrup from the original post is still the best beer I have made to date. Fermented with Wyeast 3522 (supposedly he strain from Achouffe, one of my favourite breweries). Came out pretty much perfect to my taste. The only downside is that I'm not sure if I can reproduce the syrup exactly.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

I made the 290F syrup the other day, while I was doing it, around the 110°C-120°C the sugar turned into "rocks" and then it melted again, is that something that needs to happen? Or I messed it up? I used brown sugar to get more dark notes and that tobacco like note I usually detect in brown sugar.

 

[eimar]

At 290-300 it can't be 100% fermentable. There has to be some caramelized and maillard compounds that won't ferment, otherwise you would not get any flavor out of the dark stuff.

Correct , so we can say that homemade candi syrup is almost 100% fermentable

 

[RoadKing]

1ST Jar Half gallon ball jar. Brought it to 230 and added DAP. It stalled a bit there, then slowly rose to 275ish, where it rose rapidly to 290.
I added 3 cups of water and brought it back to around 227 where I stopped it so it would stay more syrupy, as others stated.

 

[cmac62]

I do scrape it periodically as I boil, but not after turning off the heat.

Adding DAP at the onset caused some problems for me, so I don't do that. The first problem is that it's volatizing and filling my kitchen with ammonia which I don't love. The other problem is that I can't make a crystal-free syrup with a lighter color when I add the DAP that early.

I want to invert a larger percentage of the syrup before trying to get the Maillard reactions started. The method I'll outline here utilizes the ammonia as soon as it is added, so you don't need to use as much, and it doesn't end up in the air. I did a bunch of research, but I have since forgotten why this works. It does work though!

DME seems like a really good option as well, but I haven't tried it alone.

I've worked this recipe a couple of times since I last posted, and I think I've worked out a procedure that creates exactly what I want in a reasonable time-frame.

The picture here is a batch I made about 3 months ago, and you can see there are a few crystals just starting to form on the bottom. That was with a 20 minute hold in the 260-275 range. I've since increased that to 30 minutes and eliminated the problem.

Belgian Candi Syrup Recipe:
Ingredients:

4# White Sugar
1# Dextrose (Corn Sugar)
1 1/2 Cups Water
1/2 tsp. Cream of Tartar

1 Cup Water
2 tsp. DME
1 tsp. Diammonium Phosphate


Put Sugar, Dextrose, Water and cream of tartar together in a pot and bring to 260 degrees. Hold between 260 and 275 for 30 minutes.

While sugar is heating dissolve 2 tsps. of Dry Malt Extract and 1 tsp of Di-ammonium Phosphate to 1 cup of water and set aside.*

After 30 minutes raise temperature between 290-300 and then SLOWLY add water/DME/DAP solution to syrup to start the Maillard reactions and drop temperature (It should drop close to 240). Add additional water until temperature is 240. Use less solution for less color.

Continue boiling slowly until desired color is reached and then add water to drop to 240 degrees again. Fills two quart mason jars.

*Note: You can add less or more of this solution depending on what you are trying to make. I tend to have both water and DAP/DME/water solution, so that I can adjust as I need while still dropping to 240.

Stand, I was wondering if fermaid O could be substituted for the DME and some of the DAP? I don't have any DME on hand and was thinking the Fermaid O would have both protein and amonia. What do you think? Thanks

 

[Stand]

I would guess that it works the same, but my organic chemistry is weak compared to many of the HBT resident experts. That said, the descriptions I am reading make it sound like an organic source of DAP. I know people have used other yeast nutrients successfully, so I have no reason to believe that one is significantly different or would result in a different product.

With no DME you will need more nutrient or time.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

 

[cmac62]

I would guess that it works the same, but my organic chemistry is weak compared to many of the HBT resident experts. That said, the descriptions I am reading make it sound like an organic source of DAP. I know people have used other yeast nutrients successfully, so I have no reason to believe that one is significantly different or would result in a different product.

With no DME you will need more nutrient or time.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

I used a little DAP and some Fermaid O, did the #5 and it came out great. On the second heating I looked away for 30 seconds and it got up to 320. It tasted great and I put it into my Dubble I brewed on Friday. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

 

[Kold Brygg]

Due to lockdown I'm unable to get Candi Syrup. So I thought I'll make some myself. I've read somewhere 280 is more or less the same as D-180.

Candi Syrup sells in 16oz packs. I suppose it's slightly watered down. Any idea how much sugar I need to equal a bag of Candi Syrup?

 

[cmac62]

Due to lockdown I'm unable to get Candi Syrup. So I thought I'll make some myself. I've read somewhere 280 is more or less the same as D-180.

Candi Syrup sells in 16oz packs. I suppose it's slightly watered down. Any idea how much sugar I need to equal a bag of Candi Syrup?

how many grams/Oz in the bag? I did it one to one, you don't loose anything but water and you put some of this back when you thin it to 240. Good luck.

 

[Kold Brygg]

how many grams/Oz in the bag? I did it one to one, you don't loose anything but water and you put some of this back when you thin it to 240. Good luck.

]

16oz or 450G or 300ML says the package.

PPG 1.032 which is 70%
Table sugar have PPG 1.046 which is 100% fermentable.

 

[cmac62]

Not after you add the water and make the stuff. The only way to get flavor out of it is to create unfermentable sugars. Again, I would make the syrup and add it lb for lb.

 

[cmac62]

Even if that is not perfectly correct it is very unlikely yo will be able to tell the difference. I know I wouldn't be able to.

 

[JJ_Jameson]

I tried making this today, got to the 290 F mark, added water to stop boiling but once it solidified, it wasn't smooth, kind of like crystals forming in it. Has this happened to anyone else? Any tips on how to stop this from happening? Attached a pic of the "syrup".

 

[Jayjay1976]

I tried making this today, got to the 290 F mark, added water to stop boiling but once it solidified, it wasn't smooth, kind of like crystals forming in it. Has this happened to anyone else? Any tips on how to stop this from happening? Attached a pic of the "syrup".

I wouldn't add any water to it, just let it cool down and store it in jars.

 

[JJ_Jameson]

I wouldn't add any water to it, just let it cool down and store it in jars.

I dumped it. It was really chunky with sugar crystals.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I dumped it. It was really chunky with sugar crystals.

You could have boiled it down again to a syrup but oh well, whatevs. Chunky, sugar crystals, you know yeast don't give a damn about the consistency, they'll ferment it all the same.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

I tried making this today, got to the 290 F mark, added water to stop boiling but once it solidified, it wasn't smooth, kind of like crystals forming in it. Has this happened to anyone else? Any tips on how to stop this from happening? Attached a pic of the "syrup".

If already caramelized sugar gets in contact with crystals, can crystallize. So you need to constantly brush down any crystals on the sides of the pot so they get dissolved

 

[JJ_Jameson]

You could have boiled it down again to a syrup but oh well, whatevs. Chunky, sugar crystals, you know yeast don't give a damn about the consistency, they'll ferment it all the same.

I was pretty frustrated and it was turning into a bad brew day, so ill just restart again today. Appreciate the feedback

 

[IslandLizard]

I was pretty frustrated and it was turning into a bad brew day, so ill just restart again today. Appreciate the feedback

Sorry to hear that, and sad you tossed it. It's sugar!
There's no need to make sugar syrups on brew day, They can be made beforehand, one evening days, weeks, months even, or days after, and added to the fermenter.

Unless I want to caramelize them somewhat more (e.g., Barleywines, Scottish Ales), I never add sugars to the kettle. They go into the fermenter, pre-diluted with some wort or beer, most often when fermentation has slowed down already. I like them best that way, leaving delicate flavors, preventing yeast from early binging, while keeping her engaged for arguably better attenuation.

 

[JJ_Jameson]

Sorry to hear that, and sad you tossed it. It's sugar!
There's no need to make sugar syrups on brew day, They can be made beforehand, one evening days, weeks, months even, or days after, and added to the fermenter.

Unless I want to caramelize them somewhat more (e.g., Barleywines, Scottish Ales), I never add sugars to the kettle. They go into the fermenter, pre-diluted with some wort or beer, most often when fermentation has slowed down already. I like them best that way, leaving delicate flavors, preventing yeast from early binging, while keeping her engaged for arguably better attenuation.

I was trying to make the syrup for the Caramel Amber Ale by KingBrianl but i guess whatever happens it with it today, ill just dump it in and relax