2 weeks in bottles and it still tastes/smells like garbage

[paulczak]

I have seen many states like time cures all... but I just can't believe it will in my case. 9 or so in primary and now its been about 2 in bottles for conditioning. It is supposed to be an IPA (no dry hopping though so I am a little nervous) but it kind of smells/tastes like cleaner/sanitizer... the taste is so vile I can't even keep it on my tongue long enough to gander at what the defects could be...

DO you think waiting will help? I'm feeling pretty down and out about this one.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Only 9 days in the primary? Chances are it wasn't done...very common noob mistake.

You new guys need to R-E-L-A-X...fermentation is a NATURAL process that you cannot change...

If you're in a hurry go buy some beer...

If your beer tastes that bad I would dump it and start on another.

So, in the future when your brew is in the primary take a hydrometer reading. When the gravity has dropped 75% from the OG then it is time to rack to the secondarry...not to the bottle.

 

[paulczak]

gravity was stable for days at that point is the thing. pretty sure fermentation was done... Plus if it still had that much juice left i'd imagine I'd have had some bombs go off no?

 

[indeedproceed]

gravity was stable for days at that point is the thing. pretty sure fermentation was done... Plus if it still had that much juice left i'd imagine I'd have had some bombs go off no?

I thought bottle bombs were a product of over fermentation. N'est pas correct?

 

[Erythro73]

gravity was stable for days at that point is the thing. pretty sure fermentation was done... Plus if it still had that much juice left i'd imagine I'd have had some bombs go off no?

Sure, the primary phase of fermentation may have ended. But it still needs to condition ; the yeasties still need time to clear after themselves. I suggest you read Palmer.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter8-2.html


9 days in primary + 2 weeks in bottles is clearly not enough.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

9 days in primary + 2 weeks in bottles is clearly not enough.

While I agree that is not enough conditioning time for a beer to be in it's prime, IT IS enough time for it to at least resemble beer. Based on what the original poster is saying, it sounds like he's got other issues (which could possibly be fixed/lessened by more conditioning time.)

Paul, can you provide us a detailed breakdown of your recipe and process? What was your fermentation temperature and what kind of water did you use?

 

[brewagentjay]

Time Cures All well most time. I'd say take a small sample let it sit an get to room temp and see how it tastes after it mellows a bit. Perhap give better insight to what the taste is....

1 + on telling HBT what your complete process and recipe so they can help.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Concur that 9 days in primary is too short. If I'm doing a secondary (only if I'm adding fruit/nuts/dry-hop), mine will be in the primary for two weeks. If I'm only leaving it in the primary - it's 4 weeks. When I bottled, it would be in the bottle for 4 weeks before drinking. You can't go back and fix this batch, but future batches can be made better.

I also concur that without your full process we can't be sure if something else is going on.

 

[Yooper]

What was the recipe? What was the yeast used, and the fermentation temperatures? Maybe we can figure out what's wrong, and how to fix it.

What did you use for a sanitize? Did it taste bad coming out of the primary, or just in the bottles?

 

[Homercidal]

I thought bottle bombs were a product of over fermentation. N'est pas correct?

Bottle Bombs are caused by an incomplete fermentation PRIOR to bottling. This leaves excess sugars in the bottle, so when fermentation finishes, the CO2 builds pressure and explodes the bottles.

So, I guess you could say it's caused by over fermentation IN THE BOTTLE.

It's usually due to a brewer's inexperience, or possibly due to a brewer's incorrect calculations.


As far as this particular problem, it's hard to find the cause of bad flavors without a recipe and process to look at. Could be temps, or ingredients. Might be a bit early for some infections. Or it could be just too young yet.

 

[RogueVassar]

I agree with BrookdaleBrew that this sounds like a bigger issue than bottling early. If he was checking the gravity, then it should taste like good beer. I also want to add that for an IPA, it usually doesn't get better with age. I thought the opposite from these boards because of posts like this that tell people to wait and wait. The hops lose their punch and after two months, it's a completely different beer.

In this case, it's your best option though. Good luck with it and hopefully more info will shed light on the issue.

 

[Erythro73]

I agree with BrookdaleBrew that this sounds like a bigger issue than bottling early. If he was checking the gravity, then it should taste like good beer. I also want to add that for an IPA, it usually doesn't get better with age. I thought the opposite from these boards because of posts like this that tell people to wait and wait. The hops lose their punch and after two months, it's a completely different beer.

In this case, it's your best option though. Good luck with it and hopefully more info will shed light on the issue.

While I agree that this may be a bigger issue than bottling early, I tried to answer with the datas provided by the OP. What does he mean by "taste like garbage"? What does this taste like? Cidery? Solvent-like? Taste green? Or just badly done IPA? Because, it's still true that 23 days is way too early. Garbage might mean a lot of things.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

Even my green beer tastes like beer, just not quite "there" yet. It sounds like he is describing off flavors. He said it tasted like cleaner/sanitizer, which I would interpret as fusel alcohol or possibly astringency.

 

[user 34267]

I also want to add that for an IPA, it usually doesn't get better with age.

I disagree that an IPA doesn't get better with age.

I also disagree that an IPA gets better with age.

Being impatient with your IPA is going to net you green beer that's not going to taste that great, so implying that an IPA "doesn't get better with age" suggests, to me, that they may as well drink it the moment it's carbonated. That often may not be the best time and it may well improve with some time in the bottle.

Of course, you're right that the hops fade, so unlike some beers that may be even better after 3 months, you don't want to just hold onto your IPA hoping it'll improve. Patience is still important, though.

 

[Egghead]

Smells/tastes like cleaner/sanitizer? Are you sure you didn't leave some in your bottles and/or equipment?

What was your fermentation temperature?

 

[homebrewer_99]

gravity was stable for days at that point is the thing. pretty sure fermentation was done... Plus if it still had that much juice left i'd imagine I'd have had some bombs go off no?

Just because it was stable doesn't mean it was done.

If the FG is 1/4 of the OG then it would be OK.

 

[Erythro73]

I have seen many states like time cures all... but I just can't believe it will in my case. 9 or so in primary and now its been about 2 in bottles for conditioning. It is supposed to be an IPA (no dry hopping though so I am a little nervous) but it kind of smells/tastes like cleaner/sanitizer... the taste is so vile I can't even keep it on my tongue long enough to gander at what the defects could be...

DO you think waiting will help? I'm feeling pretty down and out about this one.

What cleaner/sanitizer did you use? (Didn't read the part about cleaner/sanitizer the first time. Very sorry) By all means, give us some more informations on your techniques/recipes/cleaning.

 

[paulczak]

Star san was my cleaner. I'd say fermentation was around 65 to 70f (when I checked).

Recipe (benefit of notes)

6lb Munton's extra light DME

1 oz Northern Brewer (10.4%) (60 Minutes of boil)
1oz Cascade (1 minute boil)

Steeped 1/2 lb of toasted crystal (A mistake in my execution), 1/2 lb toasted barley, and 1/2 lb untoasted crystal in about 5g's for 30 minutes at 160

Boiled with the DME and the NB hops for 60, added the cascade at T-1 minute.

Is it okay to keep things in the primary for 2 weeks? I have a secondary available.. I heard that keeping it in primary will lead to autolysis and off flavors. Since this I'm doing the 1 - 3 - 3 thing

 

[paulczak]

Yeast was Safale # 04 (light blue packet)

 

[Yooper]

That recipe looks fine- I don't see any reason it should taste bad. You can easily leave a beer in primary for two-three weeks without worrying about autolysis.

You used star-san to sanitize? You used it on the equipment, and then just filled the fermenter while the sanitizer was still wet on the surface? Did you use 1 ounce per 5 gallons of water? How about on the bottles? Did you wash the bottles with something (not soap) and then sanitize them right before bottling?

I suspect some went wrong in your sanitation procedure. The recipe is fine, and the yeast is fine. The fermentation temperature seems ok, but even if it got too hot the worse it would taste is fruity or kind of "hot", not foul.

 

[paulczak]

Hi yooper! Can't believe you saw one of my threads. Read many of your replies so it's a bit of an honour.

Okay sanitization went like this - i filled the 6.5g carboy up with water and added about 1.5 oz starsan. This one I just siphoned out into bucket/sink.

bottles were rinsed out well with water and then dunked into star san solution for about a minute each. I will admit, if bubbles existed, then I'd have jetted them out with water to get the bubbles out. Just doesn't feel right to drink something with sanitizer in it. Its possible that i sprayed out the primary fermenter with water if bubbles existed...

 

[Dave11980]

I wouldn't pitch, if it's no good after a month in bottles then deep six it in your closet and check again in 6 months. It really is amazing how things clear up over time. Just look around here at some of the stories and you will see that. I also think people exaggerate a bit with the "way too soon" comments. You can ferment a week and bottle a week and have good beer. Longer times may make it way better but it's not going to come out as something other than beer if you bottle at 9 days.

 

[Erythro73]

Okay sanitization went like this - i filled the 6.5g carboy up with water and added about 1.5 oz starsan. This one I just siphoned out into bucket/sink.

bottles were rinsed out well with water and then dunked into star san solution for about a minute each. I will admit, if bubbles existed, then I'd have jetted them out with water to get the bubbles out. Just doesn't feel right to drink something with sanitizer in it. Its possible that i sprayed out the primary fermenter with water if bubbles existed...

As far as I'm concerned, that's too much Starsan for 6.5 gallons. 1 ounce to 5 gallons of water or 1.5 ounces to 7.5 gallons of water. You should have put 1.3 ounces along with 6.5 gallons of water.

I'm not sure this is the culprit, but you need your starsan concentration to be right, or else it becomes too acidic and it doesn't break down into yeast nutriment when mixed with beer.

 

[RogueVassar]

Hi yooper! Can't believe you saw one of my threads. Read many of your replies so it's a bit of an honour.

Okay sanitization went like this - i filled the 6.5g carboy up with water and added about 1.5 oz starsan. This one I just siphoned out into bucket/sink.

bottles were rinsed out well with water and then dunked into star san solution for about a minute each. I will admit, if bubbles existed, then I'd have jetted them out with water to get the bubbles out. Just doesn't feel right to drink something with sanitizer in it. Its possible that i sprayed out the primary fermenter with water if bubbles existed...

The bubbles are your friends. You need the sanitizer to still be there and wet for it to work best. So you shouldn't spray it off.

Was this brand new equipment or used? Were the bottles new? It could be gunk at the bottom of your bottles if they weren't cleaned all the way (which is different than sanitized because you can't sanitize something that's dirty).

 

[Yooper]

Hi yooper! Can't believe you saw one of my threads. Read many of your replies so it's a bit of an honour.

Okay sanitization went like this - i filled the 6.5g carboy up with water and added about 1.5 oz starsan. This one I just siphoned out into bucket/sink.

bottles were rinsed out well with water and then dunked into star san solution for about a minute each. I will admit, if bubbles existed, then I'd have jetted them out with water to get the bubbles out. Just doesn't feel right to drink something with sanitizer in it. Its possible that i sprayed out the primary fermenter with water if bubbles existed...

In the back of my mind, I am thinking that is the problem. Somehow you've either got too much star-san and can taste the result, or you rinsed off the sanitizer and got an infection going. That's where I'm leaning.

The recipe is solid, and even if you steeped at too high a temperature or something, you shouldn't have a foul taste.

As the others said, star-san is a very good no-rinse sanitizer when used in the proper amounts. It's an acid, so it's important to be careful when mixing. You want the right amount, so that it will sanitize properly. It has a nice measuring cup on it already, so you can just squirt from the top into the proper amount of water. And, it's no rinse so you don't want to rinse it off!

One last thing, star-san is a great sanitizer (I use it). But it's not a cleaner. So, you want to wash your dirty items in something like oxyclean until they are totally clean and rinse very well. Then, you can sanitize. It's best to fill your bottles and use the equipment while it's still wet with star-san. It's a wet contact sanitizer, so as long as it's still wet, it's still sanitized.

I hope I'm wrong, though! Because if it is an infection, the beer won't improve but instead will get worse.

One last thing I must have missed in the earlier posts- what kind of water did you use? That's the last thing I can think of that might cause off-flavors.

 

[brewagentjay]

Hi yooper! Can't believe you saw one of my threads. Read many of your replies so it's a bit of an honour.

Okay sanitization went like this - i filled the 6.5g carboy up with water and added about 1.5 oz starsan. This one I just siphoned out into bucket/sink.

bottles were rinsed out well with water and then dunked into star san solution for about a minute each. I will admit, if bubbles existed, then I'd have jetted them out with water to get the bubbles out. Just doesn't feel right to drink something with sanitizer in it. Its possible that i sprayed out the primary fermenter with water if bubbles existed...

Got to love the Yooper Love:rockin:

 

[paulczak]

Just used regular tap water. Popped another bottle open and it's more drinkable but still has the off flavor just a whole lot less of it. Not enjoyable - but probably about as pleasurable as bud (which incidentally I think should be added to the defect list). I think i will let it sit "deep six" and seeing how it improves over the weeks. it's certainly under hopped thus far

Wouldn't I see visible signs of an infection?

 

[paulczak]

Just used regular tap water. Popped another bottle open and it's more drinkable but still has the off flavor just a whole lot less of it. Not enjoyable - but probably about as pleasurable as bud (which incidentally I think should be added to the defect list). I think i will let it sit "deep six" and seeing how it improves over the weeks. it's certainly under hopped thus far

Wouldn't I see visible signs of an infection?

I should say it was a full boil so the water I did use got boiled

 

[RogueVassar]

Just used regular tap water. Popped another bottle open and it's more drinkable but still has the off flavor just a whole lot less of it. Not enjoyable - but probably about as pleasurable as bud (which incidentally I think should be added to the defect list). I think i will let it sit "deep six" and seeing how it improves over the weeks. it's certainly under hopped thus far

I'm going to ask again about your bottles. Were they new or recycled? There's nothing wrong with recycled (I've never bought a bottle) but they can sometimes be pretty nasty inside. Especially if there's a difference between bottles, it could be whatever was stuck to the bottom of your bottles. How did you clean them? Remember, sanitizing only works if it's already fully clean.

As far as it being under hopped, flavors change over time but hops usually mellows rather than intensifies.

 

[paulczak]

They were new but I used them after finishing my first beer. Cleaning involved spraying out with bottle jet until could not see anything left and then dipping into star san bucket for about a minute or 2.. popped another bottle. I think I might have had a 'good' one when I made the comment earlier... It's wild....

Should I take it as a sign that the beer isn't completely clear yet?

 

[paulczak]

okay... as an update... I just cracked one open as it was sitting in there.. Noticed first thing that the beer was clear... completely clear. first time every this was the case. 2nd thing I noticed... the aweful aftertaste was gone.

Smokes.. it's not awesome but it's not garbage either. I was pretty nervous that this would be something of a loss... it's not and that makes me happy.

 

[brewagentjay]

Great to hear that it's drinkable

 

[agroff383]

I have drank some 1060 beers that are over 6 months old that I brewed that still taste clean and close to the way they did when they were 6 weeks old. I rarely even try a beer after its bottled any less than 4 weeks after its bottled.

So I know it is hard but just let them sit and let the yeast get all figured out. Then you won't be bummed out when you try it and it wasn't what you thought it was gonna be.

Only one that didn't age well at all was a breakfast stout which used oatmeal which doesn't age well apparently.

 

[CrAzYmOuSe]

I have tried my beers at 2 weeks in the bottle and they taste like crap (green) they are good a week later and at 5-6 weeks they are awesome. It is amazing what a little time can do.