2 tier vs 1 tier?

[JUSTINTIMEBREWING]

I'm building a brew cart... I have one march pump, three keggles, and three burners. 1 tier or 2 tier cart?

 

[Bobby_M]

Fly sparge or batch sparge? Fly, two tiers or two pumps. Batch sparge, one pump single tier.

 

[JUSTINTIMEBREWING]

What do you recommend bobby m? You seem to be pretty knowledgeable in brewing. Ive watched all your videos and read a lot of your post (kinda a fan I guess you would say haha) If the fly sparging is better then ill pick up an extra pump and build a two tier. And if batch sparging is better then ill do the one tier. Also I think I remember reading something about you wishing you would have built a two tier system? Anyways what is the best haha. (I wanna make sure I do this right the first time).

 

[pickles]

I'm building a two tier system with two pumps. I want to be able to drain mash tun via gravity into kettle. My lowest tier is only 7" off the ground so I'll pump through the plate chiller and directly into fermenter. By the way I find it easier to fly sparge, just personal preference.

 

[x2wdtoyotax]

How about using a venturi pump instead of a second march pump? I am in the planning stages of my single tier rig also.

http://www.wortwizard.com/Tech/tech3.htm

 

[jrkettle]

I just built a two tier. I decided to go that route because I batch sparge in a cooler and wanted to gravity drain into the boil kettle and I didn't want the cooler near the burners. But I could have done single tier and probably would have been happy with either. When I was deciding I set up my equipment in a few different configurations and brewed each way to get an idea of what I liked. The two tier just seemed to fit my style better.

 

[Edcculus]

I haven't designed a system yet, but it comes down to how you brew. Do you fly or batch sparge? How many pumps do you want to buy? Do you want it to be portable? Electric? How much space do you have? I'd encourage you to browse around and look at some of the recent builds (although you don't have to get that fancy), and look at some rigs/sculputres.

 

[Bobby_M]

Sorry, correction. Fly sparging requires two simultaneous liquid flows. That can be 3 tiers with no pumps, two tiers with one pump, or single tier with two pumps. Batch sparging requires movement of only one flow at a time so a single tier with one pump will do.

People really like the brewmagic style with HLT, MLT on the top tier and BK on the bottom. If you go that route, I'd hack 12" off the legs because you don't have to gravity drain the BK to the fermenter when you have a pump.

 

[JUSTINTIMEBREWING]

hmm im almost leaning towards the single tier one pump batch sparging method...

 

[IrregularPulse]

hmm im almost leaning towards the single tier one pump batch sparging method...

This is what I'm leaning towards as well. My only concern is using a pump for draining my my mash to my BK. I'm worried too much suction might cause channeling. Is this just pish posh in my head?

 

[jrkettle]

hmm im almost leaning towards the single tier one pump batch sparging method...

If I had a keg MLT I would have went that way so I could see into it without a ladder.

 

[arturo7]

Two tier, one pump. MLT on top, HLT and BK on bottom.

Fly sparge with pump feed and gravity drain.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Two tier, one pump. MLT on top, HLT and BK on bottom.

Fly sparge with pump feed and gravity drain.

This will be the style of my next build. +1

 

[Bobby_M]

This is what I'm leaning towards as well. My only concern is using a pump for draining my my mash to my BK. I'm worried too much suction might cause channeling. Is this just pish posh in my head?

No such thing as channeling in batch sparging. However, you do have to be careful about compacting the grainbed with pumped recirculation or draining. One thing that helps is to start slowly to set the bed and slow the runoff speed as you get down to about a gallon left. If you rush this part, you end up losing your siphon/pump prime while wort is still trickling down through bed and under the false bottom. Sometimes I even stop pumping when there's about a gallon left so that I give it a chance to drip down and collect under the FB.

 

[samc]

If you have any back issues or other physical limitations then a single tier is a better way to go. My brew days are much easier now that I use 2 pumps on a single tier.

 

[MrH]

My setup is a bit different. When I originally built it 15 years ago, everything was very, very, erm, very expensive, so I did a two-tier, but I have my HLT on the top tier and MT and BK on the second tier. I used gravity for HLT and pumped between the MT and BK, then gravity from the BK through the CFC and into my fermenter that sat on the floor. Now that I'm completely redesigning and overhauling my rig, I've opted to keep my setup the same, even though I'm now pumping from my HLT (HLT is electric now, and I recirc the liquor to maintain even temp). Even though the HLT is essentially over head, so what? The HLT is the one kettle that doesn't need to be scrubbed clean after every batch.

I do have a design in my head for a very compact configuration that is nearly at ground level to minmize heavy lifting, but that's more looking forward a few years as I get old and broken down

MrH

 

[Bobby_M]

If you have any back issues or other physical limitations then a single tier is a better way to go. My brew days are much easier now that I use 2 pumps on a single tier.

Also keep in mind that the HLT can be up high without you ever having to look into it. Fill it through the drain valve with a GH QD setup. Measure liquid levels with a sight glass, etc.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

I'd do a 2-tier setup, with a single march pump, unless you plan on automating your brewery in the future. For automation, you definitely want two pumps so just go with a single tier. BUT, if you're like me and want to actually be involved in my brew day and would rather not pay for an extra pump, a 2-tier setup is perfect. Just make sure your HLT is the vessel on the top tier. I built mine with the MLT on top, so I pump water into the MLT to fly sparge, and gravity drain to the boil kettle. My friend has it set up the opposite way, and it works much better.

I've always had problems pumping from my HLT into the MLT for the fly sparge. I don't have that problem when recirculating the mash though. It may be unique to my setup, but no amount of fiddling with connections and hoses keeps the pump from stalling out when I run it restricted. When I build my official brew stand, it will have the HLT on the top tier and the MLT and BK on the bottom tier.

 

[JUSTINTIMEBREWING]

Wow lots of great info thanks everyone!

 

[IrregularPulse]

No such thing as channeling in batch sparging. However, you do have to be careful about compacting the grainbed with pumped recirculation or draining. One thing that helps is to start slowly to set the bed and slow the runoff speed as you get down to about a gallon left. If you rush this part, you end up losing your siphon/pump prime while wort is still trickling down through bed and under the false bottom. Sometimes I even stop pumping when there's about a gallon left so that I give it a chance to drip down and collect under the FB.

Sounds like a PITA.
Maybe I'll look at a 2 tier setup with HLT and BK on one level and MT on a higher level to gravity drain into my BK. Use my pump to transfer from HLT to MT and BK recirc through CFC and into fermenter.

 

[MrH]

It's not as bad as it sounds. With v 1.0 of my rig, I used a spiral copper tube manifold for my false bottom in my MT. Out of the 50+ brews I did with it, I only came close to a compaction once when recirculating, but it was because I pushed the limits of my system and had my 18gal kettle filled to the brim. Even then it only required throttling down the flow a bit. It sounds like you don't plan on doing a RIMS/HERMS? If you are, you still need to be able to recirc. With a properly designed false bottom and the right water-to-grain ratio, you should be fine. It just takes a bit of monitoring during the process, which you have to do anyway if you fly sparge...

MrH

 

[JUSTINTIMEBREWING]

Where can I find a detailed explanation about RIMS and HERMS?

 

[Desert_Sky]

Ive had both. Gravity is free but pumps are cool.

I really liked my single tier Brutus. Worked awesome, dual pumps are a great way to go. Ive since moved up to a 20 gallon B3 2050 and the extra height of the MT combined with a tippy dump is a breeze for removing spent grains. It has a smaller footprint as well

Both make beer, its personal choice

 

[Bobby_M]

Where can I find a detailed explanation about RIMS and HERMS?

In our wiki... https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/i..._systems#Recirculating_mash_systems_generally

and then by doing searches for actual build threads.

 

[Brew-boy]

I am going to build a two tier one pump. I will be able to batch or fly sparge with this setup easily. The mash tun will gravity feed to the BK. Mash tun in the middle and the highest vessel, to the right the BK and to the left the HLT.

 

[JUSTINTIMEBREWING]

If I do single tier one pump whats the best way to mash? Batch sparging? and how would this process go? btw I will be direct fire mashing in a keggle. Sorry guys if these are dumb questions i'm new to all grain brewing.

 

[JUSTINTIMEBREWING]

or what about this I just found this method this seems really nice and easy (price is outrageous though) http://www.kegglebrewing.com/The-Keggle-Brewer_p_173.html#

 

[Wing Nut]

I am building a two tier rig right now. I built it out of 2 inch square steel tube. I know a little over kill but hey the price was right. I have placed the HLT in the center and elevated it 21 inches. The BK and MT are both at the same level. This will alow me to fly sparge and by keeping the HLT in the center it keeps it balanced. I will be posting some photos soon showing the build progress.

Wing nut

 

[Desert_Sky]

If I do single tier one pump whats the best way to mash? Batch sparging? and how would this process go? btw I will be direct fire mashing in a keggle. Sorry guys if these are dumb questions i'm new to all grain brewing.

I would honestly try to find a way to buy a used pump and go dual. You will be much happier if you do

 

[JUSTINTIMEBREWING]

so many options whew its a lot to take in ha