1st batch - newbie questions

[motobrewer]

So, I picked up Papazian's book and wanted to start with his extract IPA. He calls for home-toasting malts, the recipe calls for:

"xlb toasted malted barley"

What malt should I use? base malt, crystal, toasted...?

Like I said, he has you take the malted barley and put it in the oven for about 10 minutes, so I don't know if that would over-toast "toasted malt".

I was thinking of using whole Maris Otter, toasting like he describes, cracking with a rolling pin, and then steeping...

 

[chuggs]

Charlie's books date back a while...where local homebrew shops weren't too complete with offerings. Many of the recipes call for making your own. But today...most of the shops carry many different specialty malts. Sell them by the lb. or or even by the oz. Will run them through a grain mill for you so you don't have to use the rolling pin.

The color of the malt is measured in degrees lovibond. You'll find stuff like biscuit, vienna, crystal, toasted, roasted, chocolate, black patent... It's just like coffee beans...getting light roast or dark roasted.

IMPORTANT: If you're steeping...with extract...you probably won't actally be doing a starch conversion. So you need something that's been converted already... The Crystal Malts fit the bill. The malter already let the grain rest at the conversion temperature...and the starch inside has already converted to sugar. So you just need a crystal malt...and you can use it as is...or toast some of it to get the color/carmelization a little darker.

Keep track of what you did...in case you want to make it again.

Darned...I gave my Papazian books to my son. I was going to look up that recipe.

 

[motobrewer]

Thanks for the info chuggs!

I'll post up the recipe when I get home - it was pretty basic. It does seem a tad dated, but very useful. I like it a lot, especially combined with "How to Brew", it's everything you need to know.

The recipe had "crystal malt" and "toasted malted barley". so maybe I'll use a biscuit for the "toasted malted barley" and caramel 20L for the crystal malt.

seems like a lot of grain for an extract beer. but what do I know

 

[chuggs]

Motobrewer,

N.P. Always glad to help a new brewer.

The reason I ask about the grains, is... If the grain bill for the recipe is all Crystal...then temperature isn't a concern. All you're really doing is disolving the sugar that's already in the hulls...because the maltster did the starch conversion already. If your grain bill calls for malted barley that you put in the toaster...it's going to have starch in it still...

You're into an intermediate level brew...right off the bat. Which is good --- I'm not going to disuade you from doing it. I think your beer will come out GREAT!!

Here's the catch. You're going to heat the water and dip your grain bag in...and hold the temperature for at least 30 minutes. What this does...(If you've read all this before pls excuse the repetition)...is activate the enzymes in the malted barley. The enzymes need a temp. zone within which they work best. We call this saccrification temperature. The enzymes break down the large carbohydrate molecules...to make short carbohydrate molecules... STARCH => SUGAR It's a miracle! You'll need to steep those grains in the range of 150 -160 degrees for 30 minutes. That temperature range is a safe zone that's actually within the zone where the enzymes do their work...so if you're off a couple of degrees...no biggie. IF you favor the bottom of the temp zone...you'll produce sugars that are more fermentable...which add to the alcohol content of the beer. If you favor the top...you get more non-fermentable sugars that add to the body of the beer. Many people shoot for 154, or so, to get a balance.

Here's an example that I pulled off a site just by googling:

http://mountainhomebrew.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=11

They recommend 150 degrees for their recipe.

A couple of gotchas. It's been a long time since I read The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing (excellent book), PAPAZIAN. I'm sure he discusses boil over. I'll just mention it again. Be careful...it's going to happen sooner or later to everyone that ever made an extract beer. You'll feel like you need two more arms when it starts to happen. If you had at least one extra arm...you could stir with one arm, lower the dial on the stove with one arm, and splash a bit of cool water in the pot with another arm. But since we don't have 3 arms...chances are it's going to boil over. Just don't let it burn you. It will clean up. Another thing. Those floating thermometers that they sell with most brew kits. They break easily. Use it carefully while steeping the grains...but remove it. For some reason, when my son did his first batch...he left the thermometer in the kettle. It broke and got those little lead bb's all over the place. Not a good thing.

If you have a grain that you're uncertain about...you can put some on a small saucer...and put a drop of iodine on it. If it remains iodine colored...it's already converted. If it turns purple...it's got starch that needs the saccrification rest.

Enjoy!

Let us know if there's anything else that you're wondering about.

 

[motobrewer]

More good info! I am aware this is more of an intermediate brew - I hope I've read enough that it shouldn't be a problem.

The recipe had you let it sit at 150-155 for 30 minutes - but I didn't really understand why until now, so thanks a lot for that. Another "click" in the brain...

As far as boil-overs, i have a 7.5 gallon pot, and I was planning on doing full wort boils (outside). Hopefully I won't have an issue. I have a clip-mounted thermometer as well.

great tip on using iodine, i'll have to buy a bottle. Hopefully I'll get some time to get to the store, and brew on saturday. thanks!

 

[chuggs]

I've had the wort try to climb out of a 15 gal keggle...so you still have to watch it when it first starts boiling...and as you make the first hop addition.

Full wort boils are obviously a necessity when doing all grain brewing. Not so much for extract...but you'll get better hop utilization doing it. An added benefit is that all the wort gets sterilized during the boil. The added hardship is getting all that liquid down to a temperature that you can pitch the yeast into. With the partial boil...you'll mix two gallons of hot wort with three gallons of frigid water...and hopefully get something below 80 degrees so that you can pitch your yeast. When you do a full wort boil...your beer will benefit from a rapid reduction in wort temperature. You want to be careful not to splash the wort around while it's hot. Mixing air into the wort while it's hot will lead to off-flavors from "Hot Side Aeration"... AFTER the wort cools...it's good to mix in oxygen. The yeast multiply rapidly when oxygen is present in the wort. Then when they deplete that oxygen...they get busy turning the sugars into alcohol and co2. If you're careful not to get any wild airborne yeast, or bacteria in the fermenter...you can try putting the fermenter in the tub and adding ice, or some people put a wet towel around it with a fan to speed evaporation to cool it. If it's winter...you might stick it in a snow bank for a while. But most of us use some type of heat exchanger. I use a homemade Immersion Chiller. Some people use Counter-Flow Wort Chillers...still others use Plate Heat Exchangers. The benefit is two-fold. You'll induce a "cold break" that helps coagulate nasties...(can't remember if it's protien or what) but it helps reduce off flavors caused by having them still in the wort. When they coagulate they settle out. The other advantage is you get your yeast working faster...staving off the chance for some opportunistic wild yeast or bacteria to take hold. Note: if you have an airlock on the fermenter as it cools...it will likely draw the liquid out of the airlock and into the wort. This could cause an infection. If you use a little vodka in the airlock...it won't infect your wort. Most ale yeast cause an lot of nasty looking foam (krausen) to form. IT will crawl up and out of the airlock. For this reason, Many brewer's favor a "blow-off" tube arangement during this period. I start with an airlock..and when the crusty stuff starts to form...I switch over to a blowoff tube... After the crusty stuff dies down...I switch back to an air lock. The blowoff tube is just a peice of tubing with a large enough diameter that it won't get plugged up by the foam and particles...routed down into a pitcher of water. The CO2 bubbles in the water...and the water hopefully prevents anything from going the other way and getting into the beer.

Here's an Immersion Chiller that I made from Home Depot stuff. It's just a 50ft coil of copper tubing that I wrapped around a scuba tank. I made it a little sturdier by weaving some 14ga bare copper wire around the coils to hold them in place. Some people use plastic zip ties.




Clean it up good with soap and water...rinse all the soap off good. Immerse it in the wort during the last 10-15 minutes of the boil to sterilize it. Then when you turn off the heat to the boil kettle...start running cool tap water through the coil. If you swirl the coil around...it helps speed the heat transfer.

Sorry to dump more on your plate right now. Just something else to consider...weighing the advantages of a partial boil vs a full boil.

Homebrew stores usually carry bottles of Iodophor. I make a solution, according to the label, to sterilize everything on brew day. And it comes in handy for doing the starch conversion test as well...

Outside brewer like me! I love brewing outside. Hope the weather is fantastic for your inaugural brew!

PS...with a full wort boil vs a partial used in the recipe...you may need to reduce the amt. of hops added to the kettle during the boil. If it calls for a final addition during the last two minutes...I'd keep the full qty. of hops for that aroma --- Mmmmmm!

 

[motobrewer]

I was thinking about cooling - a wort chiller might be in my future. How much was 50ft of copper pipe?

Great tip on hot side aeration - will keep that in mind.

I have a 6 gal carboy as a primary with a blow-off hose, and once primary is done I'll either leave it there with a stopper and airlock or rack to my 5 gal carboy with airlock - and have the primary free for another batch

Question about liquid yeast - going to use Wyeast 1098 - do I need to make a starter? If so, how? Do you recommend yeast nutrient? Thanks!

 

[chuggs]

I can't remember what I paid for the copper tubing. It's been about 19 years since... I'm sure copper has gone up significantly. I notice a lot of people using 25 ft instead of 50 ft...that's likely due to the high price of copper now. Will still work...just take a bit longer is all.

You've got the perfect arrangement. Big primary, 5 gal secondary. I finally got smart and did that a couple of years ago. Makes managing that big krausen a whole lot easier. If you can...that yeast loves 65 - 68 degrees...

Wyeast 1098...hmm letme see... NO WAY? That is MY personal favorite!! I can tell you're going to make Great Beer!!! I make all my IPA's, Stouts, & Bitters with that yeast. It clears nicely...the yeast does not detract even one tinsy bit from the flavors of the beer. When you go to take your final gravity reading...drink the contents of the hydrometer cylinder. That yeast is so clean...you'll be drinking the beer and loving it before it even gets to condition. As a matter of fact...I had a Bitter that I made once...that was at peak right out of the secondary (8-10 days in primary, 10-14 days in secondary @ 68 degrees F) Unfortunately, the Styrian Goldings (hops) started to loose their punch after a couple of more weeks.

If you buy the Activator pack...you'll be fine pitching into 5 gals. If you buy the smaller Propagator packet...you'll need to make a starter.

As far as yeast starters go...

You can use a flask or a 16 oz beer bottle...

Put about 10 oz of water in a pot and boil...
Add 3-4 TBSP of Dry Malt Extract (DME)...
Pour into the flask or bottle and chill to 80 degrees F (65-80 degrees)
Pour in active yeast culture
Put a stopper and airlock on the flask/bottle
Let sit overnight

This works well for Ales. Largers usually get built up a bit more...they grow slower at lagering temps ~ 45 degrees F.

If you think of it... keep a sterile bottle and bottle cap during your brewing. Before you pitch your yeast...if you fill the bottle with wort, cap it, and stick it in the fridge for safe storage...you'll have the perfect solution for making your next Yeast starter. Make sure you label it...so nobody drinks it thinking it's a beer )

I like to chain brew with the 1098. I discard the trub/dregs from the primary...but on the day I'm going to bottle/keg from the secondary -- I make another batch of beer. Swirl the yeast dregs around on the bottom of the secondary after you've siphoned off the beer...and pour into your freshly made wort in your primary carboy. It will ferment even faster with the new stock of fresh yeast. And your recipe will be less expensive, because you don't have to purchase another yeast packet.

You can also save some of that dreg beer from the bottom of your secondary...and bottle it. Keep it refrigerated. It's will settle to form a nice yeast cake in the bottom. Then the next time you want a starter. Decant most of the beer off that yeast cake...and put an airlock on it. Meanwhile...drain some of the wort that you saved from the batch earlier in a sterile bottle. Put a clean stopper on it and shake it up really good to disolve some oxygen into it. Now lift the airlock on the yeast cake bottle and pour some of that freshly shaken wort into that bottle, swirl around to get the yeast up into solution...and replace the airlock. In a day or two you'll have another starter ready for another batch of beer. If you ever notice a change in flavor...discard your yeast strains...and start over with a fresh culture from Wyeast.

Hope this technique will save you a few bucks to put toward other ingredients...



You might hold off on that until you're convinced that it's the yeast you like...by experimenting with different yeast. But I'm very happy with it for those beer styles I mentioned.

I don't usually add yeast nutrient in an all-grain beer. I use it primarily for making MEAD. It won't hurt to put a little bit in though. It seems to reduce off flavors in some yeast strains. But I don't think the 1098 will have a problem without it.

I used to use Irish Moss in the boil kettle...I now mostly use Whirfloc (?) ...it helps significanlty with the cold break, coagulating out extra proteins.

Cheers

 

[Hang Glider]

Suggestion on Boil Overs -
get some FermCap-S - the stuff is awesome - just as the boil starts to climb, eye-dropper in about 5 drops. Stops the boilover immediately!

 

[motobrewer]

Haha, good yeast info! I bought the Activator pack. I've actually abandoned (for now - I might try it later) Papazian's IPA, and picked up a Bitter kit from nothern brewer:

0.5lb Simpsons Caramalt
3.15lb Gold Malt Syrup
1lb Golden Light DME
1oz Kent Goldings (60 minute)
1oz Kent Goldings (1 minute)

and some Irish Moss

Now I have more questions:

So, for chain brewing - if you're pouring 12oz of a Bitter from the secondary back into the primary, then add a Stout wort (or vice versa), how will that affect flavor? I was thinking of brewing right after bottling this Bitter. I don't think it'll be a Stout, probably a Christmas Ale actually, but I was just wondering about flavor implications.

Also - how long will bottled wort keep in the fridge? And bottled secondary yeast?

Hang Glider - good tip on using FermCap, I might have to try it out

Thanks!

 

[chuggs]

Not really a problem. You can actually wash the yeast if you want. Just decant as much of that Bitter that you can into the bottling bucket. Add a little 68 degree clean water...swirl around. Decant some into your bottle or flask... Let the yeast settle out on the bottom for a day or two...decant the liquid off of it again. Then swirl some of your new wort that's going into primary in the bottle to get the yeast into suspension and pour into the primary. You really won't have much of the other beer flavor at all.

If you're making a starter with yeast that you've saved...by adding wort that you saved...just let it ferment out long enough that it starts flocculating onto the bottom...decant the liquid...add some clean water, or fresh wort from the batch you're about to pitch...swirl around to resuspend the yeast...and pitch it into your primary.

The wort will stay good in fridge for years...if it was perfectly sterile. Inspect it carefully for bacterial infection, yeasts, or molds. Bacteria will make it gush...and probably stink really bad. The yeast can make it smell sulphury and will gush as well. Mold will look like --- well mold --Big chunks of black stuff floating around everywhere. Don't use it if you notice this... Good idea to have a little bit of DME on hand for such emergencies. Make a sterile wort with just water and dme to rekindle your yeast in.

Never knew about FermCap stuff... amazing how technology continues to improve the homebrew experience.

 

[motobrewer]

Interesting Stuff....

Question about Wyeast 1098 - what temps does it like? My basement's hanging at about 65F solid right now. Too cold?

 

[chuggs]

Lucky Duck!

I've got to use an override controller on a spare fridge to get that!

Yes...It is primo at 65F!

I usually pitch the yeast as soon as I get the wort SAFELY below 80 degrees...72 would be even better... I pitch the yeast...and it will go through a period of 4-8 hrs where there appears to be no activity. I let it sit on a table at room temp. for that. Then after the foamy junk on top starts to form...and there's some airlock activity...I move it to the fridge. I usually set 65-68 degrees F.


ONLY TWO MORE DAYS!

BREW ON!!!

 

[seanybubbles]

You'll enjoy the Papazian IPA I'm sure. I brew it once a season and it's great and simple. I get my shop to grind 1lb of crystal malt and I roast 1/2 lb of of 2 row malt and then crush it with a rolling pin. I then follow the recipe except for I save some cascade hops for dry hopping. I use Safale us-05 yeast which comes out very nice. This beer is best when fresh. good luck.

 

[motobrewer]

Ah, excellent! I was a little worried, since the packet says 65-75F.

And I wouldn't call us "lucky" - it was about 45F outside this morning! I have to heat the house to get it at 65, lol....stupid wisconsin....

Two more days is right!! That is, if I have time to grab the propane burner from my uncle this week...hope I do, yeast is just sitting in my fridge, waiting to do some work.

Oh - so if I'm planning on brewing on saturday, should I take the yeast out of my fridge friday, let it warm to room temp, smack it, and let it sit overnight?

Thanks for the info!

 

[Jeeperforlife]

Just a quick reply to the question about the copper tubing...being cheap, i used 1/4" for mine, but i paid $1.19/ft about a week ago. I made mine 25' and it worked good with my test run yesterday.

 

[chuggs]

You could slap it the night before... It only takes a fresh yeast culture a few hours to start swelling the package. If it's old...it might take longer.

The yeast is pitchable right away. The whole idea of letting it sit and swell up is a "proof of life" demonstration. If you slap a pack...and it never swells up...it's probably bad. If you slap a pack and it swells within a few hours...IT"S ALIVE!!!