12-12-12 Wee Heavy Recipe Formulation

[smokinghole]

I'm sure everyone will be fine with that as a guideline. I know I am, now that I know we aren't going for a specific recipe.

 

[MDVDuber]

Well we've got to have oak!

King Brian has already cut down and seasoned his lumber in anticipation...not to mention toasting, burning and drowning it in moonshine for good measure.

How can we say no to Oak !?!?

 

[commonsenseman]

I think setting something up along these lines could be most appropriate for this recipe. Giving rough guidelines and allowing the brewer to follow them as he sees fit. Something like:

OG ~1.100
IBU ~30

98% base malt (golden promise or maris otter)
~2% roasted barley
(optional) 2-5% crystal malt
(optional) 1-3% smoked malt

boil 2 gallons of first runnings (per 5 gallon batch) down to a thick syrup and add back to boil kettle

2-3 hr boil

british hops at 45 and 35 minutes

scottish ale yeast

(optional) oak aging

You know, just something like that.

Perfect.

 

[BenS]

Well we've got to have oak!

Oak aging should remain optional. Oak aging really is an art to turn out well. I do not feel like I can add oak to a beer and know that it will turn out well. I am all about receiving oaked beers but would prefer not to do it myself. I would rather trade a very good Wee Heavy (which I know I am capable of brewing), compared to a mediocre oaked Wee Heavy.

 

[JLW]

I may have missed this somewhere inthe thread, but when are we brewing this beer?

 

[IrregularPulse]

Aw, sorry, we brewed it yesterday at Jeff's house. Maybe next year.

 

[bottlebomber]

I may have missed this somewhere inthe thread, but when are we brewing this beer?

Whenever we can get the thing agreed upon through December.

I have to agree with smokinghole...

As I stated before, its WAY more interesting to all use the same recipe and see how it turns out. Anyone is free to brew whatever they want any other time, but for this is should be the same.

As far as oak, its easy enough to oak a portion of the recipe to your own tastes

 

[bottlebomber]

We should get this part out of the way. Maybe hold a poll based on fixed recipe vs guideline recipe

 

[commonsenseman]

Well, if it's a big deal. Sure, we could do a poll.

 

[KingBrianI]

Seriously, another poll? My interest in this project is dropping fast. You will never get everyone to brew the same beer, even if the poll decides that everyone has to brew the same recipe. So the people who add a little smoked malt, or whatever the hell other changes they make are now to be excluded from participating in the swap. I'd be surprised if most of the people in this thread even do the swap if "allowed". Look at the 11-11-11 swap, there's what, like 7 people signed up?

 

[bottlebomber]

Well, if it's a big deal. Sure, we could do a poll.

I would say it is a big deal, since this is a huge beer, were all going to be sitting on it for a year, then paying a considerable sum to ship it around. We should definitely all be happy with what were making. Of course if we can't agree then we can't agree. I for one will be participating whatever the outcome.

 

[bottlebomber]

I think setting something up along these lines could be most appropriate for this recipe. Giving rough guidelines and allowing the brewer to follow them as he sees fit. Something like:

OG ~1.100
IBU ~30

98% base malt (golden promise or maris otter)
~2% roasted barley
(optional) 2-5% crystal malt
(optional) 1-3% smoked malt

boil 2 gallons of first runnings (per 5 gallon batch) down to a thick syrup and add back to boil kettle

2-3 hr boil

british hops at 45 and 35 minutes

scottish ale yeast

(optional) oak aging

You know, just something like that.

Seriously, another poll? My interest in this project is dropping fast.

Alright alright, we'll just go with this then. I can work with that.

 

[KingBrianI]

Alright alright, we'll just go with this then. I can work with that.

Like you said, people are putting a lot of time, money and energy into this beer, so it should be done in the way the most people agree with. If you guys decide a poll is the way to go about deciding that, then go for it. I just feel like it is all getting too serious which takes away from the "fun" aspect of it for me.

As an aside, I'm drinking a Traquair House Ale right now and it's really nice. Not one of the best bottles of it I've had, but it's still very enjoyable.

A few things I'm noticing about it: It tastes like a quad with a neutral yeast! I guess I had never thought about it before, but you may remember the crazy idea I put forth about kind of mixing the two styles. I guess that was still floating around my head because when I tasted it, my first thought was how it tasted very similar to a quad I brewed once. It's actually fairly dry, but the low bitterness gives the impression of sweetness. It's still smooth and creamy though, with almost no alcohol presence. It also has an almost vinuous character to it and I really do think I'm getting something from that oak. Not a tannic, oaky flavor but something more subtle and murky. A feeling in the mouth, a passing hint of earth, the sudden thought of dark and damp cellars. If I do use one of the oak sticks I'm preparing, it will be with a very light touch.

 

[KingBrianI]

 

[GuldTuborg]

Wow, lots of strong ideas here. For what it's worth, I'd like to see the recipe and swap done to include as many people as possible, rather than exclude them for various reasons. Guideline recipe and all is fine by me. Many of us are going to have to make substitutions anyway based off of available ingredients, so why make things difficult.

As for problems with wort reduction, once the syrup starts to get thick, you can always transfer it to a pot in the oven. That prevents scorching issues, though you still have to worry about a nasty boil over.

With regards to the large grainbill, one could always adjust for a 4 gallon recipe. I know it sucks to brew less at a time, but some big beers demand it. Think of it as an excuse to brew this twice, for an 8 gallon total, for instance!:rockin:

Oh, and nice pic of the Traq, Brian. Where the hell is the 11/11/11 swap page? I haven't seen it anywhere.

 

[KingBrianI]

Here you go:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f38/11-11-11-old-ale-swap-critique-thread-271674/

Still plenty of time to sign up!

 

[commonsenseman]

That looks delicious! Way on the low end ABV-wise for a Wee Heavy too.

Guld: I'll probably be making a smaller batch, possibly two of them since it'll be aging so long.

 

[Cromwell]

I think setting something up along these lines could be most appropriate for this recipe. Giving rough guidelines and allowing the brewer to follow them as he sees fit. Something like:

OG ~1.100
IBU ~30

98% base malt (golden promise or maris otter)
~2% roasted barley
(optional) 2-5% crystal malt
(optional) 1-3% smoked malt

boil 2 gallons of first runnings (per 5 gallon batch) down to a thick syrup and add back to boil kettle

2-3 hr boil

british hops at 45 and 35 minutes

scottish ale yeast

(optional) oak aging

You know, just something like that.

+1 This seems to provide enough flexibility to keep people happy, but they'll all be similar enough to be fun to compare. Too bad everyone's already brewed this.

 

[statseeker]

I think I might end up using Irish Ale yeast for this one. It sounds like it has roughly the characteristics that KB described in the Traquair. Especially in this type of ale, its attenuation is good.

Irish Ale 1084

From Wyeast:

"This versatile yeast ferments extremely well in dark worts. It is a good choice for most high gravity beers. Beers fermented in the lower temperature range produce a dry, crisp profile with subtle fruitiness. Fruit and complex esters will increase when fermentation temperatures are above 64°F (18°C)."

Mine will definitely be above 64 most of the time. I might oak it VERY lightly with a medium toast oak. I'm pretty excited for this actually.

Though if Scottish ale yeast is agreed upon as a condition, I'll agree to that and nix the oak addition.

 

[MDVDuber]

I think setting something up along these lines could be most appropriate for this recipe. Giving rough guidelines and allowing the brewer to follow them as he sees fit. Something like:

OG ~1.100
IBU ~30

98% base malt (golden promise or maris otter)
~2% roasted barley
(optional) 2-5% crystal malt
(optional) 1-3% smoked malt

boil 2 gallons of first runnings (per 5 gallon batch) down to a thick syrup and add back to boil kettle

2-3 hr boil

british hops at 45 and 35 minutes

scottish ale yeast

(optional) oak aging

You know, just something like that.

I like this! Question on the hop timings - at 45 and 35 won't we get some hop flavor at the expense of bittering? If that's correct will that flavor still be around come 12-12-12??

I'm excited to participate in this. I brewed the 11-11-11 but much later than all of you so mine is just not ready to share. Glad to be in on the ground floor of this one!

 

[bottlebomber]

Sounds like we have a recipe formulation. Ill probably make an 80/- before the brew day to try my hand at the kettle caramelization, and to build my yeast.

 

[JLW]

This sounds great. I think the recipe I started playing with already is pretty close.

 

[JuanKenobi]

Looks like the recipe part is at least mostly agreed upon, which is good since I have a sack of GP arriving today. I think I'll also do a lower strength batch to practice the boil down. I'm personally going with 98% GP, 2% roasted barley, EKG, Wy1728.

What I'm wondering right now is how to best anticipate my efficiency. Normally with a huge grain bill I'd expect to get something like 60 - 65% efficiency out of the tun, but in this case with the boil down and long boil I'm expecting a couple batch sparges will be needed to achieve full volume. Anyone have experience with this situation? I'm using a 10 gallon round cooler MT for a 5.5 gallon batch.

As to batch volume, I'm formulating for my normal 5.5 batch size. Now, since we're boiling down a couple gallons of runnings to what seems like will be a pretty small volume and then adding that back into the boil, there's no reason to adjust the batch size up for the purpose of estimating OG, right? I know this seems obvious, but I fee like I'm missing something and don't want to make a huge miscalculation.

I guess I'll get my answers out of the first batch, but would love to have a success before diving into this monster. Thanks for the help.

 

[KingBrianI]

As to batch volume, I'm formulating for my normal 5.5 batch size. Now, since we're boiling down a couple gallons of runnings to what seems like will be a pretty small volume and then adding that back into the boil, there's no reason to adjust the batch size up for the purpose of estimating OG, right? I know this seems obvious, but I fee like I'm missing something and don't want to make a huge miscalculation.

Correct. Think about OG as the relation of sugar per unit volume. There is a certain amount of sugar in the grain and boiling it down or whatever doesn't change that amount of sugar. It is then divided up into whatever your final volume is. So calculate based on the final volume of your batch like you always do.

 

[JuanKenobi]

Correct. Think about OG as the relation of sugar per unit volume. There is a certain amount of sugar in the grain and boiling it down or whatever doesn't change that amount of sugar. It is then divided up into whatever your final volume is. So calculate based on the final volume of your batch like you always do.

I knew that was right, but had that nagging feeling in the back of my head that I think I'm so smart, but am actually an idiot. Thanks for the reassurance.

 

[bottlebomber]

I knew that was right, but had that nagging feeling in the back of my head that I think I'm so smart, but am actually an idiot. Thanks for the reassurance.

I deal with that feeling on a daily basis

 

[JLW]

Looks like the recipe part is at least mostly agreed upon, which is good since I have a sack of GP arriving today. I think I'll also do a lower strength batch to practice the boil down. I'm personally going with 98% GP, 2% roasted barley, EKG, Wy1728.

What I'm wondering right now is how to best anticipate my efficiency. Normally with a huge grain bill I'd expect to get something like 60 - 65% efficiency out of the tun, but in this case with the boil down and long boil I'm expecting a couple batch sparges will be needed to achieve full volume. Anyone have experience with this situation? I'm using a 10 gallon round cooler MT for a 5.5 gallon batch.

As to batch volume, I'm formulating for my normal 5.5 batch size. Now, since we're boiling down a couple gallons of runnings to what seems like will be a pretty small volume and then adding that back into the boil, there's no reason to adjust the batch size up for the purpose of estimating OG, right? I know this seems obvious, but I fee like I'm missing something and don't want to make a huge miscalculation.

I guess I'll get my answers out of the first batch, but would love to have a success before diving into this monster. Thanks for the help.

Don't twist my arm to make a prequeal to the wee heavy. I like that idea think I might have to do something similar.

 

[smokinghole]

I don't know about a batch with a boil down for me but a lighter version with a long boil certainly sounds like a great idea.

 

[statseeker]

So I assume the Scottish Ale yeast is an in-stone part of the formula?

 

[BenS]

So I assume the Scottish Ale yeast is an in-stone part of the formula?

It is a pretty important part of the formula.