100% Munich?

[mcavers]

Hello homebrewers:

I'm wondering if anyone here has brewed an APA using Munich as a base malt. The stuff at my LHBS is 10 L (there's also a 30 L, but that's obviously too dark to consider using), and I'm awfully curious about using it to brew an APA of around 1.050 SG, 40 IBU or so, and flavoured with C-hops of some kind. I want to produce an ale that's really nice and malty without being overwhelmingly sweet - is this the way?

Thanks for your input!

 

[klyph]

I believe Munich has a lower diastatic power due to the kilning denaturing the enzymes. If you're not adding any darker grains and it's 100% munich, you should get complete conversion, but you won't be able to convert any other specialty grains without adding amylase enzymes.

 

[mcavers]

Thanks for the info - that's basically what I expected. I'm curious about whether an all-Munich brew would be OK - that is, whether it'd be tasty enough to make specialty malts unnecessary.

 

[JonK331]

I always use around ten percent Munich in American style ales. If you use 100% Munich, you will be making something like a Marzen with ale yeast and American hops. Could be really good. The way I make an APA is to use a quality 2-row, or a blend of 2-row and Maris Otter if I want to spend a little extra, about a pound of Munich for melanoidins, and no more than a pound of crystal malt (usually around 8oz of crystal 15 and 4 oz of crystal 40). Lately I've been seriously backing off on the crystal and increasing the amount of Munich or Vienna. I think my last APA only had 6 oz of crystal malt.

A good grain bill for my taste for a APA would be:

5 lbs American Rahr
4 lbs Maris Otter
1 lb Munich Malt
8 oz Crystal 40

Mashed at 152. Not too sweet, not too dry for my taste.

 

[JonK331]

Thanks for the info - that's basically what I expected. I'm curious about whether an all-Munich brew would be OK - that is, whether it'd be tasty enough to make specialty malts unnecessary.

Heck yes, Marzen. Dude, give it a shot, it would be unconventional but I think it would be really good.

 

[BigEd]

Hello homebrewers:

I'm wondering if anyone here has brewed an APA using Munich as a base malt. The stuff at my LHBS is 10 L (there's also a 30 L, but that's obviously too dark to consider using), and I'm awfully curious about using it to brew an APA of around 1.050 SG, 40 IBU or so, and flavoured with C-hops of some kind. I want to produce an ale that's really nice and malty without being overwhelmingly sweet - is this the way?

Thanks for your input!

If it's German Munich go ahead but if it's domestic Munich stay away from a 100% brew. The color choices of 10L and 30L make it seem suspiciously like domestic Munich which is not really suited to base malt use. German Munich typically is in a color range of 6-8L for light and 10-12L for dark.

 

[lumpher]

munich does have a lower diastatic power. problem: any beer brewed primarily with it would be sweet

 

[mcavers]

OK - thanks all - maybe the thing to do is to start with a modest amount of Munich and work up rather than jump in to the deep end all at once. I've never made APA, except in my early days as an extract brewer, and I want to do it well!

 

[klyph]

If it's your first time doing a particular style, either use a well established recipe or mix elements of several recipes. You're not going to jump the shark on your first try.

 

[JonK331]

Here's a description of the Weyerman Munich 8-10L. According to them, it will self convert: http://morebeer.com/view_product/17122/103787/German_Munich_Malt

but yes, it would probably be better to use at least some 2-row

 

[jmo88]

I've made over 2 dozen IPA's and have eventually found a perfect formula for me. I've gotten rid of the crystal and other specialty grains and now use 80% 2-row and 20% Vienna. It is balanced, not too dry like you might expect, and it has great mouthfeel. Since Vienna and Munich are similar in that they are both base grains, I'd be willing to bet the same ratio for an APA would be great.

 

[funkswing]

problem: any beer brewed primarily with it would be sweet

Bullshiz. I have brewed a Munich Dunkel with 100% Weyermann Munich II (~10L). Absolutely delicous, and not the slightest bit too sweet.

Munich malt isn't sweet, where in the hell did you get that from? Its toasty and malty.

I have also done a 100% Vienna for an APA (well, I guess its an Un-American Pale Ale ).

That too is another great beer. Even the local brew pub pushes one out a couple times a year.

100% base malt is NEVER going to produce a bad or overly sweet beer. I think you ought to do it. Just know that it will be a toasty bastard, and may require a bit more aging than you are used to for an APA. But you will def. know what the taste of Munich malt from that point on!

So many naysayers here. Make up all your recipes, you don't need to copy someone elses. I mean, beer recipes are pretty damn simple due to the fact that there aren't really that many variables when you think about it. Plus you will learn more from making the decisions yourself (I guess unless you know for a fact that you are a bad decision maker....then steal recipes)

 

[JonK331]

I've made over 2 dozen IPA's and have eventually found a perfect formula for me. I've gotten rid of the crystal and other specialty grains and now use 80% 2-row and 20% Vienna. It is balanced, not too dry like you might expect, and it has great mouthfeel. Since Vienna and Munich are similar in that they are both base grains, I'd be willing to bet the same ratio for an APA would be great.

That sounds really good. Crystal malt is waaaay overrated.

 

[funkswing]

Crystal malt is waaaay overrated.

More so just over-used. You don't need it in an IPA for two reason. 1) there is already a bunch of malt being used to make the higher gravity beer, so there will be without a doubt a malt flavor in the beer. 2) you want the IPA to attenuate fairly high, because that is just what the style calls for. Crystal malt goes against that.

But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be used.

 

[JonK331]

More so just over-used. You don't need it in an IPA for two reason. 1) there is already a bunch of malt being used to make the higher gravity beer, so there will be without a doubt a malt flavor in the beer. 2) you want the IPA to attenuate fairly high, because that is just what the style calls for. Crystal malt goes against that.

But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be used.

Agreed!

 

[funkswing]

Agreed!

Yea for my non-conclusive statement!

 

[mcavers]

Ha - more opinions than brewers in this thread! I love it.

For the record, the Munich I'm talking about is from Gambrinus - my local maltster out here in BC. Their "Munich 10" is supposedly around 9-11 L. They also produce a Vienna, which I think is somewhere around 5 L. Perhaps what I'll do when I get around to making this beer is formulate a super-simple recipe - i.e. 20% Munich 10 and 80% pale ale malt (I use Gambrinus ESB). Then I can increase or decrease the Munich as desired. The next question is what yeast to use - whether to use good old 1056 or branch out into uncharted territory! But that's for another thread elsewhere. Or just for me to figure out by myself.

 

[pnj]

I'm getting ready to do a mostly Munich Ale myself. Probably 10# Munich 35L and 2# 2 row.
The hops will probably be Willamette, Cluster, Amarillo or Cascade because that's what I have on hand.
and of course, nottingham....

I'd love to hear the results of yours.

 

[Cellarbrau]

I'm toying with the idea of using the Munich 30L for base malt.

In theory it should work. Very powerful maltiness I would imagine.

 

[pnj]

what would cause it to not work?

 

[Hoppocrates]

According to beersmith, a grain requires a minimum DP (diastatic power) of 30-35 to be considered self-converting. I am actually planning a Munich Dunkel using 100% Briess Aromatic (Munich 20L) that has a DP of 40.

http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2010/01/04/diastatic-power-and-mashing-your-beer/

 

[chemnitz]

I made a batch of APA that is a lot like what you are proposing. I used a little bit of wheat malt to boost the diastatic power and a touch of crystal. The recipe is in this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/super-malty-hop-bursted-ale-sanity-check-199567/

 

[Jimmy Kendrix]

Bullshiz. I have brewed a Munich Dunkel with 100% Weyermann Munich II (~10L). Absolutely delicous, and not the slightest bit too sweet.

Munich malt isn't sweet, where in the hell did you get that from? Its toasty and malty.

I have also done a 100% Vienna for an APA (well, I guess its an Un-American Pale Ale ).

That too is another great beer. Even the local brew pub pushes one out a couple times a year.

100% base malt is NEVER going to produce a bad or overly sweet beer. I think you ought to do it. Just know that it will be a toasty bastard, and may require a bit more aging than you are used to for an APA. But you will def. know what the taste of Munich malt from that point on!

So many naysayers here. Make up all your recipes, you don't need to copy someone elses. I mean, beer recipes are pretty damn simple due to the fact that there aren't really that many variables when you think about it. Plus you will learn more from making the decisions yourself (I guess unless you know for a fact that you are a bad decision maker....then steal recipes)

Hello, I'm curious with your 100% Munich II if the beer comes out hazy? I seem to have alot of haze and was wondering if it might be due to unconverted starch.

Thanks.

 

[monkeymath]

Hello, I'm curious with your 100% Munich II if the beer comes out hazy? I seem to have alot of haze and was wondering if it might be due to unconverted starch.

Thanks.

You do realise this post was from 2010?

And no, Munich malt doesn't necessarily make a hazy beer. With the reduced enzymatic power, incomplete conversion of starch could be a problem and, yes, that could in turn lead to haze (among other issues).

 

[Joshua Hughes]

Munich at 100 converts just fine. I make 100% often. Also not sweet

 

[bwible]

From 2010. I was looking at this as well because I have a bunch of Munich malt. Its mostly used as a base for German lagers. I’m not sure how an APA with a high percentage of Munich would taste. German lagers don’t usually have much in the way of hops and in particular are not trying to hit you in the schnozzola with aroma hops.

AI says:

Traditional German lagers rely on large percentages of Munich malt, which contributes a rich, toasty, and bready flavor. While these styles are most famous for this characteristic, Munich malt is also used in a variety of other brews to build a malty backbone.

German lagers

• Munich Dunkel: A classic dark German lager where Munich malt is the star of the show. It provides complex flavors of toasted bread crust, nuts, and chocolate without a harsh or burnt roastiness. Traditional recipes can use up to 100% Munich malt.
• Doppelbock: A stronger, richer, and more alcoholic version of a traditional bock. Known as "liquid bread," it is heavily malt-emphasized, with some recipes using 65%–80% Munich malt to build a rich, bready base.
• Märzen (Oktoberfest): The traditional amber version of Oktoberfest beer, known for its rich, malty, and toasted bread character derived from significant amounts of Munich malt.
• Schwarzbier: A dark German lager that is lighter and drier than a Dunkel. While it gets its dark color from a dehusked roast malt, Munich malt often makes up a large portion of the grain bill, providing a balanced, toasted, and malty flavor.

Other styles

• Festbier: The modern, paler style of beer served at the Munich Oktoberfest. While Pilsner malt is now the primary grain, some versions still use Munich malt to provide a softer, bready maltiness.
• Belgian Dark Strong Ales: Some brewers use Munich malt at high percentages, up to 50% of the base grain, to create a rich, intense flavor.
• American Amber and Red Ales: Munich malt is a popular choice for building the malt profile in many American amber and imperial red ales.
• Imperial Stout and Porter: Smaller amounts of Munich malt are sometimes used to provide a malty backbone for these rich, intense flavored beers.
• Pale Ale and IPA: Craft and homebrewers sometimes add small amounts of Munich malt to provide a malty backbone and balance out hop-heavy styles.

 

[Halfakneecap]

From 2010. I was looking at this as well because I have a bunch of Munich malt. Its mostly used as a base for German lagers. I’m not sure how an APA with a high percentage of Munich would taste. German lagers don’t usually have much in the way of hops and in particular are not trying to hit you in the schnozzola with aroma hops.

AI says:

Traditional German lagers rely on large percentages of Munich malt, which contributes a rich, toasty, and bready flavor. While these styles are most famous for this characteristic, Munich malt is also used in a variety of other brews to build a malty backbone.

German lagers

• Munich Dunkel: A classic dark German lager where Munich malt is the star of the show. It provides complex flavors of toasted bread crust, nuts, and chocolate without a harsh or burnt roastiness. Traditional recipes can use up to 100% Munich malt.
• Doppelbock: A stronger, richer, and more alcoholic version of a traditional bock. Known as "liquid bread," it is heavily malt-emphasized, with some recipes using 65%–80% Munich malt to build a rich, bready base.
• Märzen (Oktoberfest): The traditional amber version of Oktoberfest beer, known for its rich, malty, and toasted bread character derived from significant amounts of Munich malt.
• Schwarzbier: A dark German lager that is lighter and drier than a Dunkel. While it gets its dark color from a dehusked roast malt, Munich malt often makes up a large portion of the grain bill, providing a balanced, toasted, and malty flavor.

Other styles

• Festbier: The modern, paler style of beer served at the Munich Oktoberfest. While Pilsner malt is now the primary grain, some versions still use Munich malt to provide a softer, bready maltiness.
• Belgian Dark Strong Ales: Some brewers use Munich malt at high percentages, up to 50% of the base grain, to create a rich, intense flavor.
• American Amber and Red Ales: Munich malt is a popular choice for building the malt profile in many American amber and imperial red ales.
• Imperial Stout and Porter: Smaller amounts of Munich malt are sometimes used to provide a malty backbone for these rich, intense flavored beers.
• Pale Ale and IPA: Craft and homebrewers sometimes add small amounts of Munich malt to provide a malty backbone and balance out hop-heavy styles.

I tried a 100% munich malt IPA at a brew club get together. It was fantastic. Malty and dry and hoppy.

 

[Miraculix]

I tried a 100% munich malt IPA at a brew club get together. It was fantastic. Malty and dry and hoppy.

If there's a question of remaining diastatic power, 10% chit malt or 20-30% pilsner should help without diluting the flavour too much. This sounds like a really nice beer, I will probably try something similar in the future.

 

[Witherby]

A 100% Munich malt APA actually sounds like it would fit the guidelines for an American Brown Ale.

 

[Halfakneecap]

A 100% Munich malt APA actually sounds like it would fit the guidelines for an American Brown Ale.

Why?

 

[worlddivides]

Why?

I was wondering the same thing. Using nothing but dark Munich malt to get a 1.045 OG results in 10.5 SRM. Taking it to 1.060 with 100% Munich Type II (Dark Munich malt) results in 12.8 SRM. The BJCP OG range for American Brown Ale is 1.045 to 1.060, so at the lowest range, it's 10.5 SRM and at the highest range, it's 12.8 SRM. But the color range given by the BJCP for American Brown Ale is 18 SRM to 35 SRM. And as far as I can tell, you couldn't reach 18 SRM with solely Munich Type II unless you brought the OG to around 1.100 for an ABV of around 11%.

And if you just used Munich Type I, then it'd just be 7 SRM at 1.045 and 8.9 SRM at 1.060.

 

[Witherby]

How about a 95 to 98% Munich malt with some crystal and roast malts to get you to the right color? All I’m saying is that if I had a bunch of Munich malt to use up and I wanted to make an APA-ish style beer, I’d be inclined to use it to make a American brown ale instead of an APA.

I actually do have a bunch of IREKS Munich malt to use up, but I will be using it for my homebrew club Dunkel competition in November. I will try to recreate the Franconian Dunkel (a little drier and more bitter than southern Bavarian Dunkels) that got me a first round blue ribbon in the NHC a few years back. That beer with the same malts but with an ale yeast and new world hops might have made a nice American brown ale.

 

[worlddivides]

How about a 95 to 98% Munich malt with some crystal and roast malts to get you to the right color? All I’m saying is that if I had a bunch of Munich malt to use up and I wanted to make an APA-ish style beer, I’d be inclined to use it to make a American brown ale instead of an APA.

If I was going for an APA-ish style beer but I wanted it darker, I'd be more likely to go for an American Amber Ale than an American Brown Ale. I thought that just because the flavor profile of an American Amber Ale is much closer to an American Pale Ale than to an American Brown Ale, but the color actually fits perfectly too.

BJCP SRM values:
American Pale Ale: 5 - 10
American Amber Ale: 10 - 17
American Brown Ale: 18 - 35

Although I do enjoy American Brown Ales, my opinion on this might also be influenced by how I tend to prefer English Brown Ales, which tend to not be at all hoppy.