100% Brett Trois IPA?

[Figgy15]

Hello fellow Brewers...

Wanted to pick you brains about the possibility of brewing an IPA with 100% Brettanomyces Trois (WLP644). I want to make a nice Tropical IPA and came across an article (See below) where someone made one using this strain.

Now from what I know, this yeast is used primarily for sour beers. Ferments between 70-85 F and needs to sit for a while. From my research, this strain can be fermented like a regular ale yeast and if not allowed the time to rest, will give the more fruity side of it and not the funk it's meant for. Also I am aware because of it's low cell count a starter is def. needed. In my 1 1/2 yrs brewing I have yet to do a starter.

So I was hoping to see what you think...has anyone tried making an IPA with this yeast (or any other style) and what's your experience. Also was hoping to get advice on the best way to do a starter yeast to get the most cells I can out of it.

"To err is human, but to brew is divine!"

https://lifefermented.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/beer-recipe-kick-in-the-mangos-brett-ipa/

 

[tally350z]

Sub'd to hear others. There is a good video I watched recently on the beersmith podcast. Its a little old but it was interesting.

 

[christyle]

I have a single hop DIPA with El Dorado hops going right now that I called "To Brett or Not to Brett". 2.5 gallons went with us-05 and 2.5 are with WLP644. It's been almost 2 weeks now, about to dry hop tonight. I'm not sold on the flavor just yet, can't really pick it out, but it just tastes a little sharp and off, not what I was expecting from such a fruity and sweet hop like El Dorado. I'll ride it out and see how it goes either way. Trois seems a little smoother than the US-05 though.

A starter is a really simple operation really, no need to be intimidated or hesitant (if those were your reasons for not doing them before). You also don't need a stirplate to do it, I started by making one in a Growler, and then swirling occasionally to keep the yeast as in suspension as possible. My go-to for yeast starter info was this thread.

From what I gathered leading up to my brew, this is slightly different than a true "Brett" strain, this is actually been proved to be a Sacch strain I guess. True Brett is very slow moving in comparison, and really more of a funk than a real sour yeast flavor. I planned to do a stepped starter, 750mL to 2L, but mine seemed to take off in 750 and I didn't have time to step it up like I had planned. I pitched a decent cake from my flask and it took of quick, I believe it hit FG now, its at 1.010 from 1.06 or so I think.

Try searching, there's a few good threads I went through before doing mine.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=500301
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=452107

 

[Hopper5000]

Just so you know it's actually not Brett. White labs did some research into it and discovered it's actually a wild sac strain. Look here:

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp644-saccharomyces-bruxellensis-trois

Click on the "(Formerly named Brettanomyces bruxellensis Trois)" for an explanation

(sorry for the repeat post, didn't fully read the one above...)

 

[Figgy15]

I have a single hop DIPA with El Dorado hops going right now that I called "To Brett or Not to Brett". 2.5 gallons went with us-05 and 2.5 are with WLP644. It's been almost 2 weeks now, about to dry hop tonight. I'm not sold on the flavor just yet, can't really pick it out, but it just tastes a little sharp and off, not what I was expecting from such a fruity and sweet hop like El Dorado. I'll ride it out and see how it goes either way. Trois seems a little smoother than the US-05 though.

A starter is a really simple operation really, no need to be intimidated or hesitant (if those were your reasons for not doing them before). You also don't need a stirplate to do it, I started by making one in a Growler, and then swirling occasionally to keep the yeast as in suspension as possible. My go-to for yeast starter info was this thread.

From what I gathered leading up to my brew, this is slightly different than a true "Brett" strain, this is actually been proved to be a Sacch strain I guess. True Brett is very slow moving in comparison, and really more of a funk than a real sour yeast flavor. I planned to do a stepped starter, 750mL to 2L, but mine seemed to take off in 750 and I didn't have time to step it up like I had planned. I pitched a decent cake from my flask and it took of quick, I believe it hit FG now, its at 1.010 from 1.06 or so I think.

Try searching, there's a few good threads I went through before doing mine.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=500301
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=452107

Yea I've read that when used with another ale yeast, Brett really brings out its funkiness and not so much of it's fruitiness characteristics. Let me know how it turns out. Be interested to know.

 

[christyle]

I split mine up, so the boil got split into 2 3 gallon vessesl, one had "Brett" pitched, the other was US-05. I'll see how it goes in a few weeks here.

 

[fermentology]

I've done this with Trois in the past.

http://fermentologist.blogspot.com/2012/12/brett-brux-trois-ipa-c3pa.html

Itss just sacc so treat it accordingly, it's a great yeast.

 

[bunt1828]

I brewed a cream ale with Galaxy and Citra hops at flame out fermented with 100% Trois. Not sure how the increased bitterness of an IPA would change the results, but I really enjoyed the cream ale (WAY better than the "clean" version fermented with Wyeast 1056). The "brett" contributed an earthy flavor (not funky - not really floral either, but closer to that) that added a level of depth and complexity that I really enjoyed.

I say go for it. The increased amount of malt and hops your IPA would have as compared to my cream ale may diminish the perceived impact of the yeast, but I think you'll enjoy what you end up with.

 

[AK7007]

I've done it for a tropical IPA. I ferment at 68ish for tons of pineapple/mango flavors. When I do this, I add enough crystal to get to ~10 SRM, the "sweetness" compliments the fruit flavors well, but I paradoxically also make sure ~5% of the fermentables come from simple sugars to dry the whole thing out. (Dextrose or Sucrose) I haven't done the work to confirm, but I suspect that 644 ferments simple dextrins, as attenuation definitely is higher than average ale yeasts, and mouthfeel doesn't line up with how much crystal I use. Personally, I like Citra/Mosaic/Simcoe/Nelson hops with the strain for maximum tropical flavors, focusing entirely on late hop bursting and whirlpool, (overnight hop stand) with maybe one of the clean bittering hops for FWH. Dry hop twice, once at 7 days, again for 3 or 4.

Another thing I've done is do a mixed fermentation with Conan with a 50/50 blend. Conan really brings out hop character, and 644 adds tropical flavors. I highly suspect that the yeast bay's funk town pale ale blend is Conan/644, but their ratios are unknown to me.

Starters for 644 are pretty easy, just use some sort of calculator to get an idea. I personally keep 644 around on a plate all the time and step it up over the course of a week from single colonies, so it's totally doable.

 

[DurtyChemist]

This isn't a Brett. It's actually sacchromyces. Research it.

 

[christyle]

This isn't a Brett. It's actually sacchromyces. Research it.

From what I gathered leading up to my brew, this is slightly different than a true "Brett" strain, this is actually been proved to be a Sacch strain I guess.

Just so you know it's actually not Brett. White labs did some research into it and discovered it's actually a wild sac strain.

Itss just sacc so treat it accordingly, it's a great yeast.

I think it's already been established, not to mention his title is the name of the actual yeast, not just "100% Brett"

 

[Figgy15]

I really appreciate everyone's feedback on this....

So I got the yeast yesterday from my LHBS and noticed that the sticker on the vile says Saccharomyces Trois and not Brettanomyces. Now, from what I read, it still gives a mango and pineapple aroma and taste which is what I'm looking for. I'm just wondering what would be the proper fermenting temp to have it at so that I get those flavors and not any of the "funk".

 

[christyle]

I guess we didn't establish it...

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp644-saccharomyces-bruxellensis-trois
http://www.whitelabs.com/sites/default/files/644_Explanation.pdf

They did find it to be Sacch, not Brett, and I guess they've changed the name to suite.

I believe I heard the higher temps kick out those fruit flavors, but I could be wrong. I think a little funk comes with it, but not much. I'd wait for someone else to chime in with more experience though.

 

[Figgy15]

I guess we didn't establish it...

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp644-saccharomyces-bruxellensis-trois
http://www.whitelabs.com/sites/default/files/644_Explanation.pdf

They did find it to be Sacch, not Brett, and I guess they've changed the name to suite.

I believe I heard the higher temps kick out those fruit flavors, but I could be wrong. I think a little funk comes with it, but not much. I'd wait for someone else to chime in with more experience though.

Thanks buddy...guess it has been made pretty clear here lol. Yea I'm just wondering what would be a good ferm temp. I've read different opinions on it.

 

[christyle]

No worries haha. I did a bunch of looking around at different threads and junk, so I have a lot of "somebody said this" knowledge, but not first hand. I'll be bottling mine in a week or so, and I did mine up in the low 70s I think. So far, I like the 644 better than the US-05 flavors. That's all I got though