$10 Thermapen Knockoff

[MaxStout]

But you all do realize that when you buy the cheap stuff you are rewarding copy cats for stealing the great engineering work of a company right? I don't support price gouging, but a reasonable price to sustain the company for a cutting edge design and quality products is a good thing.

Broad brushstrokes there.

How do you know the Chinese knockoff has infringed on any of Thermoworks' patents? The scope of Thermoworks' claimed invention (i.e., the claims) may have nothing to do with appearance or overall functionality. Quite often, the point of novelty of a product lies in a component, modification or subsystem. It's not terribly hard for someone to design around that patented technology and still end up with a product that is very similar in form and function.

Also, how do you know the relevant patent(s) haven't expired? Thermopens have been around a long time. It's quite likely much of the patented technology has moved into the public domain.

And if there is an infringement, I will guarantee that Thermoworks will act on it. It's not difficult to get an order seizing a shipment once it hits US Customs.

I'm not necessarily defending the knockoffs. And I'm not saying true infringement doesn't happen--it does. But if you are outraged by this, you are in for a frustrated buying experience whenever you want to buy a lot of things in the marketplace. The Chinese are skilled imitators, but the ones who want to stay in business know better than to violate US or international IP laws.

 

[Murphys_Law]

My Lavatools Javelin reads 1 second slower than the Thermapen and was a fraction of the price.

I too use a Javelin and it works great. I use it for grilling, brewing and even getting the right temp for aquarium water changes.

 

[DoctorMemory]

That's a crazy statement. If that were the case there would only be one of everything in this world. Everyone would be driving a ford. There would only be one television and so on and so for infinity....The world would be an awfully boring place ruled by monopolies.

No, THAT'S a crazy statement. Just because two things perform the same function doesn't mean that one copies the other. Ford couldn't patent the basic concept of a car any more than Thermopen could patent the thermometer, or ABInBev could patent weak fizzy beers.

On a related note, I had a very awkward conversation yesterday, explaining to someone who was trying to sell a Gibson Les Paul that their guitar was not, in fact, a real Gibson, despite it having a Gibson logo, a serial number and it being clearly stamped "Made in U.S.A.". It was a $250 Chinese knockoff, and they wanted $800 for it. Sadly, I don't doubt they'll get it from some poor unsuspecting buyer, as the seller didn't seem appropriately surprised.

 

[Schreiner]

My Lavatools Javelin reads 1 second slower than the Thermapen and was a fraction of the price.

I have the Javelin and a Thermapen. The Thermapen is nicer (backlit display, display rotates with orientation), but the Javelin is very good for the price.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

No, THAT'S a crazy statement. Just because two things perform the same function doesn't mean that one copies the other. Ford couldn't patent the basic concept of a car any more than Thermapen could patent the thermometer, or ABInBev could patent weak fizzy beers.

On a related note, I had a very awkward conversation yesterday, explaining to someone who was trying to sell a Gibson Les Paul that their guitar was not, in fact, a real Gibson, despite it having a Gibson logo, a serial number and it being clearly stamped "Made in U.S.A.". It was a $250 Chinese knockoff, and they wanted $800 for it. Sadly, I don't doubt they'll get it from some poor unsuspecting buyer, as the seller didn't seem appropriately surprised.

You story is not related at all. The guitar had a Les Paul logo. Clearing trying to claim it was something its not and highly illegal. I just received my thermometer and nowhere on it says Thermoworks. Theres a big difference between using the same concept and copyright infringement.
The member said it was "stealing" buying one of these thermometers and "rewarding thieves" for stealing there technology. And to that I say...that's a crazy statement...no one "owns" thermometer technology and I would guarantee if you cracked them open there not exactly the same or they would function exactly the same and they don't even claim to

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm guessing that some of the "concern" here is being generated by the warning statement on Thermoworks' website.

I never visited the website. What does the warning say? That using another product other than thiers may result on some sort of horrible disaster 🤔
I'm still waiting for something horrible to happen to my girlfriend's Ford since I disreaded Ford's warning and bought American made tie rods from Dearborn Michiganfor about half the price vs buying the "Genuine Ford motor company" tie rods ironically produced in China now that they no longer use the manufacturer in Dearborn..... I guess I'm supposed to believe the Chinese parts are better quality and that's why they cost more vs just because Ford gets commission off of them or whatever.

 

[auburntsts]

I never visited the website. What does the warning say? That using another product other than thiers may result on some sort of horrible disaster 🤔
I'm still waiting for something horrible to happen to my girlfriend's Ford since I disreaded Ford's warning and bought American made tie rods from Dearborn Michiganfor about half the price vs buying the "Genuine Ford motor company" tie rods ironically produced in China now that they no longer use the manufacturer in Dearborn..... I guess I'm supposed to believe the Chinese parts are better quality and that's why they cost more vs just because Ford gets commission off of them or whatever.

In a nutshell, it says caveat emptor, more or less.

 

[NeoBrew]

Let me start off by saying I didn’t intend to start a big discussion. In hindsight I could have worded my comment in a much better way to convey my point. (I should know better than to ‘forum’ when I’m two beers in at night!)

It would probably help to understand that I am an architect. As a result I place a high value on the act of design and the innovation that goes into it. So, patent or no patent, I believe in the intrinsic value of that design and will tend to pay (more) for that good design. I make no judgments against those of you who buy legal evolutions of design. Including someone who figured out how to make it cheaper. I also have no interest in telling you your viewpoint is not good. (This is what I think I could have worded better, because I clearly was trying to convince you all of something in my first post!)

That's a crazy statement. If that were the case there would only be one of everything in this world. Everyone would be driving a ford. There would only be one television and so on and so for infinity....The world would be an awfully boring place ruled by monopolies.

There is a big difference between evolution and advancement and just figuring out how to make it cheaper ($) and cheaper (quality). I believe that really great design has tangible benefits for the end user. I often see copy cat items that give between 50%-80% of the value of the original item. There is a whole rabbit hole to go down there about the value of being less expensive….which is a real and important thing…vs the value of improving and evolving an idea into something that is truly better than the original. I make no judgements for any of you about how you choose to see that. I make those choices differently all the time. Sometimes cheap, sometimes quality. For me it depends on the circumstances.

Good point but lets look at the other side of that arguement,
Do you drive a ford? do you only own or use xerox brand printers and copiers and kodak cameras? does everyone here only buy stout brand kettles with TC ports and camco brand heating elements? If not your rewarding a copycat company right? How about generic prescription drugs. Point here is everyone copies and improves on or makes cheaper versions of everything in all types of industry. Its called capitalism and its what makes the industry competitive... Without companies could charge whatever they wanted for anything. if another company can make a reasonable copy of this device for $5 then shame on thermapen for overcharging is how I see it.. They already made their millions off it.

Im eating a knockoff brand of cheerios now as I type this. By the way I've brewed clones or knockoffs of my favorite brand name beers too

I am very much a capitalist. I believe in a strong competitive free market. But, sometimes cheaper means things like abusive practices to workers or lack of protection of intellectual property. The free market is a great concept, but if you do not have equitable conditions for the free market then you don’t have a free market at all. This was part of why I stuck my neck out at all. I’m not against someone taking a great idea and making it greater, but creating a poor version of a copy and selling it cheap based on cheap labor and lax laws isn’t something I like to reward. It quite frankly just lowers the bar for the rest of the world. Why do you think we don’t manufacture much in America anymore? It was millions of people making the decision to but “that thing” cheaper and cheaper. I’m not holier than thou however. I go cheap on many occasions, but not all.

also...I DO judge you for eating cheerios, especially generic ones!

Broad brushstrokes there.

How do you know the Chinese knockoff has infringed on any of Thermoworks' patents? The scope of Thermoworks' claimed invention (i.e., the claims) may have nothing to do with appearance or overall functionality. Quite often, the point of novelty of a product lies in a component, modification or subsystem. It's not terribly hard for someone to design around that patented technology and still end up with a product that is very similar in form and function.

Also, how do you know the relevant patent(s) haven't expired? Thermopens have been around a long time. It's quite likely much of the patented technology has moved into the public domain.

And if there is an infringement, I will guarantee that Thermoworks will act on it. It's not difficult to get an order seizing a shipment once it hits US Customs.

I'm not necessarily defending the knockoffs. And I'm not saying true infringement doesn't happen--it does. But if you are outraged by this, you are in for a frustrated buying experience whenever you want to buy a lot of things in the marketplace. The Chinese are skilled imitators, but the ones who want to stay in business know better than to violate US or international IP laws.

I don’t think you quite understand how China works. Lots happens there that we would shake our heads at. But I will be the first to admit that I am no expert. I spent 2 months there a long time ago. So I base my half assed understanding a lot on that.

I don’t work for Thermoworks. It’s up to them to defend their design work. I was only trying to make a statement about a good design and how that little bit extra in a quality instrument like this can be worth the $.

Peace out! :fro:

 

[augiedoggy]

economics aside,

The folding thermometer I bought advertises 5 second readings. If it can do that and its accurate, great! I already have an inkbird bluetooth bbq thermometer which works well and this is more of less for checking things on the grill and to check accuracy of other probes in my brewing kettles from time to time as well as starter temps and such.

 

[Homercidal]

I might want one of these. I've had a few different thermometers in the kitchen that have failed the past few years. Mostly cheap design and broken wires. I won't use my Thermapen for food. No, I am not afraid of contamination or anything, it's just that the Thermapen is in my brewing kit box several rooms away (or in the garage, as the case may be...) and so it is not convenient to go get that when the kitchen drawer is right next to the stove.

If this things operates similarly to my thermapen, even if made cheaper, then it's no worse than the thermometers I already use for cooking.

And FWIW my thermapen has started to not turn on sometimes when I fold and unfold the stick. Not sure if something got inside it or what, but I'm half afraid it's not going to last much longer.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]And FWIW my thermapen has started to not turn on sometimes when I fold and unfold the stick. Not sure if something got inside it or what, but I'm half afraid it's not going to last much longer.

fwiw, that happened to ours when the original battery was on its last gasp...

Cheers!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

You get what you pay for. I haven't used it for brewing yet but walking through the house it takes at least 1 minute to level out. I just went from house to the basement where its freezing and it took close to 5 minutes to go from 65 to 38. It gets within 3 or 4 deg fast but then takes forever to level out.

 

[JohnSand]

It should be faster in liquid.

 

[MaxStout]

You get what you pay for. I haven't used it for brewing yet but walking through the house it takes at least 1 minute to level out. I just went from house to the basement where its freezing and it took close to 5 minutes to go from 65 to 38. It gets within 3 or 4 deg fast but then takes forever to level out.

Good to know. I was considering ordering one. Maybe I should spend the tenner on a six pack instead.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

It should be faster in liquid.

WOW Good call!! I just tested in tap water and took 4 seconds tested with an Internet stopwatch. Tested 3 times with the same temp and same time. I'm back to loving this thing. Might be the best $10 homebrew investment I've made

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Good to know. I was considering ordering one. Maybe I should spend the tenner on a six pack instead.

check post #45....It works great

 

[MaxStout]

check post #45....It works great

OK, 4 sec. response time is good. I think that's what the Thermapen is rated at. Maybe I'll order one after all and tack that on to my next Amazon order.

 

[augiedoggy]

The slightly different version I ordered works ok but its slower... took about 8 seconds to stabilize when reading the temp of a cup of coffee..

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

The problem I have had with the knock offs is when I brew in the winter, the outside temp can be well below freezing, and the water produces “steam” as low as 165*. between the slower acting readout because of the cold, combined with the “steam” on the thermometer it causes the thermometer to shut off and reset.

Got tired of it happening, so for just a few bucks more I got a lower end thermoworks thermometer. Have not had a problem since. I could have bought a thermopen initially for the amount I have in to lower end thermometers.

 

[augiedoggy]

My solution to that issue was going electric and brewing indoors This was one of the best decisions I ever made.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

My solution to that issue was going electric and brewing indoors This was one of the best decisions I ever made.

Thats a big 10-4...I do most of my brewing in the winter when theres nothing else to do...in a tee shirt...on a 20 deg day

 

[augiedoggy]

Thats a big 10-4...I do most of my brewing in the winter when theres nothing else to do...in a tee shirt...on a 20 deg day

Same here... I brewed Sunday in my bathrobe.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Brew day today. First time using the thermometer.
I calibrated in crushed ice water and it was 32
Calibrated at boiling and it was 212..hit 213 but I'm fine with that.
stable temps around 4 seconds.
Overall this pen is a winner. I'm going to buy another one or 2 for cooking and to have a spare...I say buy it if your on the fence

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

One year update.

I've used this for BBQ, Oven, Smoking meat, homebrew...everything.

Still dead on accurate. Best $10 I've spend in homebrew.

 

[augiedoggy]

One year update.

I've used this for BBQ, Oven, Smoking meat, homebrew...everything.

Still dead on accurate. Best $10 I've spend in homebrew.

Funny you should update this I just received my second one yesterday for the brewpub which opens today

 

[Miraculix]

Had one of the cheap ones.... Was accurate at freezing temp, one degree off at boiling temp and 4 to 5 degrees Celsius off within normal mashing range.....

.... A desaster I discovered when checking with an old-school non electric roast thermometer.

NEVER GO CHEAP ON A THERMOMETER

I now own a thermapen and suddenly, I can have a full bodied beer, if I want to.

 

[kh54s10]

My Thermapen gave up the ghost after about 5 years. I am too lazy to check into any warranty by Thermoworks. So I tried one knock off. It seemed accurate but was really slow to settle out. I then bought the Lavatool Javelin. It is very close to as fast as the Thermapen. It is accurate, and it costs 1/3 the price. It is now past 2 years of service. If this one lasts another 2 years before dieing, it is another Javelin for me.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Had one of the cheap ones.... Was accurate at freezing temp, one degree off at boiling temp and 4 to 5 degrees Celsius off within normal mashing range.....

.... A desaster I discovered when checking with an old-school non electric roast thermometer.

NEVER GO CHEAP ON A THERMOMETER

I now own a thermapen and suddenly, I can have a full bodied beer, if I want to.

This all wrong. Not sure what thermometer you were using but this one works flawlessly...and its cheap. Not to mention the 1000's of positive reviews. So cheap pens...dirt cheap for that matter work just fine. Without knowing my hunch is its the exact same guts as a thermapen with a cheaper plastic housing....either way it works just fine...for $10

As far as being able to have a full bodied beer. Thats nothing but crap...sorry bud. I've brewed at temps all over the place and can never tell the difference in mouthfeel. If you want to change up your "fuller bodied beer" chance up the recipe. Here's a test that was done at 147 and 161 (I believe) Nobody could tell the difference in mouthfeel

http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/12/the-mash-high-vs-low-temperature-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Miraculix]

This all wrong. Not sure what thermometer you were using but this one works flawlessly...and its cheap. Not to mention the 1000's of positive reviews. So cheap pens...dirt cheap for that matter work just fine. Without knowing my hunch is its the exact same guts as a thermapen with a cheaper plastic housing....either way it works just fine...for $10

As far as being able to have a full bodied beer. Thats nothing but crap...sorry bud. I've brewed at temps all over the place and can never tell the difference in mouthfeel. If you want to change up your "fuller bodied beer" chance up the recipe. Here's a test that was done at 147 and 161 (I believe) Nobody could tell the difference in mouthfeel

http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/12/the-mash-high-vs-low-temperature-exbeeriment-results/

You don't understand. Of course there can be the odd one that works in a pile of cheap stuff, but there is a higher percentage in this pile that doesn't and it is unpredictable in which way it doesn't work correctly and it is unpredictable when it starts not to work properly anymore.

Thermapen is thoroughly tested, each single one within a certain temperature range. This plus the guarantee gives you security.

A messed up thermometer can ruin multiple brews, and then you need to buy again.... Doesn't pay off imo.

 

[balrog]

I used a couple medium fast digitals and they generally always had trouble with the steam/water. I also really like a longer probe to measure all over the mash, not just the top -- I know if you stir to homogenize temps you should be ok. So I like my chef alarm with long probe, with timer, with high and lo alarm for heating to strike and cooling to whirlpool temps.

I just wish it came with bluetooth for remote reading, and auto-handling of the manual propane flame adjustment, and transferring of hops to kettle at the right time would be nice...

Another man's $0.02.