☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting

[HarborTownBrewing]

The Gaggia Classic is a fine machine and a great value. I love mine.

Thanks for the nudge, I appreciated all the input!

I just called my wife's office, ended up speaking to her coworker instead. Talked for a good two minutes about some coffee she wants to buy from me, and what she wants.

I gave her a sample recently of some Sumatra - she likes dark dark dark roast, but the sample I gave her was dropped about 30 secs after 1C ended. She loved it.

I'm not sure if I should be roasting the next one light as I usually do (I never roast anywhere close to 2C) or if I should give her what she requested - dark dark dark. It feels like an ethical dilemma.

 

[TrickyDick]

Scott Rao has an inexpensive eBook regarding Espresso and extraction, which is easy to understand, and will be helpful to you in your pursuit of preparing espresso. It is claimed that, contrary to coffee brewing, older (days since roasting) beans are preferable due to less out-gassing of CO2 which can be problematic, so start roasting!

TD

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Scott Rao has an inexpensive eBook regarding Espresso and extraction, which is easy to understand, and will be helpful to you in your pursuit of preparing espresso. It is claimed that, contrary to coffee brewing, older (days since roasting) beans are preferable due to less out-gassing of CO2 which can be problematic, so start roasting!

TD

Thanks for mentioning Tricky. I think I'll get this as I have no freaking clue how to do anything espresso related, other than drink it.

I am very excited. It's scheduled to arrive tomorrow so I'll have plenty of time to roast up some coffee and get it set up for this weekend. I'm going to be shaking so much :rockin:

 

[arturo7]

One of the things you'll notice with espresso is how the roasting date affects the grind size. A fresher roast requires a larger grind. This stabilizes about two weeks after the roast date. But during this time you must constantly adjust grind size and/or tamping pressure to get that perfect 20-30 sec shot.

Also, if you don't have one already, consider buying a scale with 0.1 gram accuracy. Without tight dosing control, you'll be forever chasing your tail.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

A fresher roast requires a larger grind. This stabilizes about two weeks after the roast date.

I'm sure there are no real rules or anything, but in general then do you find optimal flavor at any particular time for rested beans? Two weeks?

I know Tricky mentioned espresso requires more rested coffee.

 

[jammin]

One of the things you'll notice with espresso is how the roasting date affects the grind size. A fresher roast requires a larger grind. This stabilizes about two weeks after the roast date. But during this time you must constantly adjust grind size and/or tamping pressure to get that perfect 20-30 sec shot.

Also, if you don't have one already, consider buying a scale with 0.1 gram accuracy. Without tight dosing control, you'll be forever chasing your tail.

I'd say roast degree affects grind much more than roast date. A good conical burr grinder can cover the gap on roast date if there even is one. Hopefully nobody has to brew espresso with beans over 2 weeks old. Personally, I've found most coffees to peak around day 3-5.

Tamping pressure almost has no correlation on extraction either, at least a good machine. Grind size and dose weight sure do though! It isn't uncommon for a barista to adjust dose rather than grind in order to dial in a shot.

 

[arturo7]

I'd say roast degree affects grind much more than roast date.

No doubt, but we're talking about beens that have already been roasted.

Tamping pressure almost has no correlation on extraction either, at least a good machine.

I disagree with this completely.

 

[TrickyDick]

Also this may be pertinent to the STYLE of roast you might seek for an espresso:

There is a lot of discussion on RD, some roaster claim it has to be 20% of the total roast time. We do not believe this is true. It can be 15% or 25% or 20% depending on the intentions of the roaster.

That said we do recommend a minimum time of 1.5min+ RD for a very light roast. For example for sample roast.

Prolonging the RD means muting the acidity and some of the flavor properties. Up to certain point this might make sense when you roast for Espresso for example, but after certain point you will "bake" the coffee.
​

Not my quote...

I hope to never desire to buy an espresso machine. I think that they are like boats - better to have a close friend with one than own yourself!

Read that Rao book and it will explain a lot. Of course you will feel compelled to get one more thing to complete your brewing apparatus. Best not to tell you until you've read the book though.

TD

 

[jammin]

I disagree with this completely.

Why do you disagree? I've read multiple articles and discussions that support this. Here is a somewhat recent one -
http://socraticcoffee.com/2015/07/the-impact-of-tamping-pressure-on-espresso-extraction/

And you're COMPLETELY wrong if you disagree that dose size has less impact than tamp pressure

 

[TrickyDick]

 

[arturo7]

Why do you disagree?

We're talking about a Gaggia Classic. I own a Gaggia Classic. Tamping pressure absolutely affects the shot on this machine.

 

[jammin]

We're talking about a Gaggia Classic. I own a Gaggia Classic. Tamping pressure absolutely affects the shot on this machine.

What kind of grinder do you have?

 

[arturo7]

Mortar and pestle?

 

[jammin]

Mortar and pestle?

No need to get all huffy

 

[JonW]

We're talking about a Gaggia Classic. I own a Gaggia Classic. Tamping pressure absolutely affects the shot on this machine.

I'll agree with this 100%. I've also owned a Gaggia Classic and proper extraction is a balancing act between tamp and grind. Get your tamp consistent in the 15-20# range and you can then just adjust the grind to get where you need to be.

I'd say that most machines with a vibe pump are sensitive to the tamp/grind balancing act. My current machine is a LaSpaziale that is direct plumbed with a rotary vane pump and a pressure regulator and it is much less affected by the tamp.

 

[arturo7]

No need to get all huffy

That was an attempt at levity, not huffyness.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I stumbled across a similar discussion on a coffee forum the other day. Some say tamping pressure affects it, others say it doesn't.

By the end of my time reading both arguments I was having flashbacks to Primary vs Secondary fermentation arguments I've read.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I GOT IT I GOT IT I GOT IT I GOT IT I GOT IT I GOT IT I GOT IT I GOT IT I GOT IT I GOT IT. I GOT IT.

Now I need to figure out how to use it.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Decided to try it with some Tanzanian I've been digging lately.

Wow. Delicious. Actually one of the better shots I've ever had, not that I've had a lot, but still very very good. The wife liked it as well and she can be very critical.

It tasted so different than the brewed version of the coffee, yet had some similarities. Very cool to observe.

Now I just need to get a new tamper to replace the plastic crap they included.

 

[TrickyDick]

Think I had a near perfect roast on a Ethiopian YC Tuesday night. Going to post the graph. I had a one pound Poly bag of it from SM (they give your a bit more than a pound in the one pound bags I've noticed). Anyway, it was the last of the pound, having roasted a half pound once before, and it came to 260g, instead of the normal 227g I measure. oddly, I was able to get past drying before 5 minutes, when sometimes it's a struggle (need to get the kill a a watt to see what the line voltage is....). I'll post a graph when I get home tonight. I nailed the RD phase which is always a struggle. Tastes fantastic. Wish I had other beans to brew with so I could let this rest for a few days.

By the way, what are folks storing their freshly roasted beans in?? I have two containers with supposed one way vents specifically for coffee, but one is plastic, and I noticed it is cracked (I must've dropped it) so I'm looking to replace. The other I cannot recall where I purchased, but is metal, has a date dial on top of plastic lid to indicate roast date. It frequently and easily comes apart (the dial apparatus) and I wonder if it is even airtight, so thinking I might buy two.

TD

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

what are folks storing their freshly roasted beans in?? I have two containers with supposed one way vents specifically for coffee, but one is plastic, and I noticed it is cracked (I must've dropped it) so I'm looking to replace. The other I cannot recall where I purchased, but is metal, has a date dial on top of plastic lid to indicate roast date. It frequently and easily comes apart (the dial apparatus) and I wonder if it is even airtight, so thinking I might buy two.

TD

I have one of these. For under $5, I don't think you can beat it. : https://www.sweetmarias.com/product/coffee-tin-with-de-gas-valve

I also have one of these but I'm actually not a huge fan of it, at least for the money. I like the $5 one better. https://www.sweetmarias.com/product/airscape-7-inch-roasted-coffee-storage-container

I use bags with one way valves as well on occasion, especially for transporting to work or when I'm travelling since they are thin and slip into a bag or luggage easily.

 

[TallDan]

I have two of the airsscapes. One like the above and another half its size. I like them.

 

[TrickyDick]

Thanks. I'll nab a couple of the cheapo $5 containers next time I order..

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

This morning I learned just how important it is for the plastic piece of the frothing wand to be fully attached.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Update: I figured out how to fully attach the frothing wand. My unit didn't come with instructions, having been refurbished. I attached the wand on as I figured you would...but I figured incorrectly. I only found this out at the precise moment the plastic end of the wand blasted into my milk at probably something close to 250 mph, shooting milk all over the kitchen floor, cabinets, appliances, countertop, me, etc.

The cats were happy.

 

[JonW]

I only found this out at the precise moment the plastic end of the wand blasted into my milk at probably something close to 250 mph, shooting milk all over the kitchen floor, cabinets, appliances, countertop, me, etc.

You need to be careful with that, I think those are only rated up to 200 MPH.

Seriously though, you might want to start trying to steam without the attachment. I always thought those tips injected too much air into the milk and make too large of bubbles. If you learn steaming without the attachment, you can make good micro-foam which gives a much creamier mouthfeel.

Edit: I know they've changed some items on the Classic's over the years'. Does it still have a normal steam tip under the frother attachment?

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

You need to be careful with that, I think those are only rated up to 200 MPH.

Seriously though, you might want to start trying to steam without the attachment. I always thought those tips injected too much air into the milk and make too large of bubbles. If you learn steaming without the attachment, you can make good micro-foam which gives a much creamier mouthfeel.

Edit: I know they've changed some items on the Classic's over the years'. Does it still have a normal steam tip under the frother attachment?

This is the part I launched from my machine: http://www.espressozone.com/gaggia-...sembly-black?gclid=CNDosO6zzcwCFRRZhgodK_oGLw

It's a cheap piece of crap, which is what just about everyone online says. I tried frothing without the attachment after my...episode, but the metal wand alone was a little too short to get it into the milk without the milk coming up to the rim (and spilling...again).

I'm going to try it once more with the black plastic piece and see how it goes, but I'm ready to upgrade to the Silvia wand if it doesn't go well.

 

[JonW]

Yeah, that's what I started thinking. I knew they had changed those over the years. A good 3 or 4 hole tip on the wand is SO MUCH better.

You've probably already seen this, but here's a nice blog post I found talking about both the Silvia V2 and V3 wand conversions: http://kabalin.blogspot.com/2014/05/gaggia-classic-steam-wand-upgrade.html

 

[TallDan]

I replaced the v2 want on my silvia with a v3. Both are single hole and I don't think I'd like the multi-hole tip. Pretty sure my v2 is still sitting in a cabinet if anyone wants it, it had years of use, then has been sitting in a cabinet for even more years.

 

[JonW]

I use a 4 hole like the one below. It is great for creating good microfoam. It might not be an option for the Gaggia or Rancilio units.