☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting

[TallDan]

@jammin. My wife insists a bar towel live under the pot and grinder for some reason. Idk why and figure it's better not to ask.

Ha! Given the amount of ground coffee and hot water that gets spilled, then dries on my countertops, that's probably a good idea.

I could post some pics of my stuff, but I'd have to clean my countertops first. Yeah, they're messy!

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I had bought 5 lbs of Guatemala SHB Santo Dominigo from Roastmasters to play around with the Behmor on manual and try to stick to the same coffee to learn how the various changes effect flavor. For a while I was really struggling with it, because it turns out I was pulling the beans too early and they tasted pretty green. With the Guatemela I have, I found a really nice flavor by taking it as far as the first couple pops of 2C, then killing the power. Tastes great that way, and I started getting really familiar with the bean.

So I got excited last night and tried roasting a Yirgacheffe I had stored for a few months. Followed the same roast pattern as I had been with the Guatemala lately, and planned to kill power a tad before 2C. Got a very nice long 2.5 min 1C with fantastic smoke smells. But then somehow 2C really snuck up on me and I rolled into it about a minute after 1C ended - by the time I stopped the roast it was still popping while cooling; definitely took it further than a Yirga should have gone.

Moral of the story: don't get too used to a single bean and how it roasts. It still does smell fantastic, and I still think it will be good.

 

[jammin]

@jammin. My wife insists a bar towel live under the pot and grinder for some reason. Idk why and figure it's better not to ask.

View attachment 259170

Haha - mine is just happy to have a fresh pot of coffee waiting for her every morning.

Have you installed the steel burrs in your Vario yet? HUGE improvement in drip grind quality. Very easy to install yourself.


Edit:

Here they are. These are literally world class burrs that are machined by Ditting (think $1k+ Used in high end cafes)

http://www.baratza.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=8170

 

[Bensiff]

Nope, didn't know they exist. The stock burrs are holding up excellently and remain extremely consistent. I don't know if I would change over to those as they say they are for course grind...I want to keep the ability to grind for espresso too.

 

[TrickyDick]

so what's the deal with these steel burrs? They promote the ceramic burrs which come withe the grinders as lasting twice as long as steel burrs...
other than than you'll need to forgive my ignorance. Whats the big difference? My grinder is at least 5 years old. I run less than 45 seconds per day and typically 25 seconds for most of those years.

TD

 

[jammin]

as Ben pointed out, the cermanic burr's geometry and inherent qualities make them preferable for espresso duty. Baratza initially marketed the Vario as a dual purpose grinder that excels at espresso (very consistent fine grind capability).

The ceramic burrs are actually fairly dull and produce a decent "dust" when grinding in the espresso range. This is actually preferable to a certain degree when pulling shots.

It turns out that the "dull" ceramic burrs don't function that well at coarse settings, especially press pot range.

Baratza teamed up with the highly esteemed Ditting grinder manufacturer to design and machine a high end SS burr set for the Vario for drip/press enthusiasts. This was a natural fit as Baratza initially launched the Vario's with ceramic burrs made by Mahlkonig (another very elite grinder corp). Mahlkonig was absorbed into the Ditting house sometime after this... so little brother (baratza) went to daddy to get help and the new SS burr set was born.

Ditting has very sophisticated equipment for burr development and world class machining equipment for machining them.



If you do get a set, be ready to burn through 15-20 lbs of coffee before they start to break in and really shine.


PS - you can send in your ceramic burr grinder Vario and swap it out for a refurb (or new) Vario-W with factory installed SS burrs

 

[TrickyDick]

Dangerous information.

I have a digital scale. I have begun weighing the water and beans (pre grind) for my coffee. The volume marker on the reservoir is fairly accurate but not to the precision as the scale of course. Probably not a big enough difference that I would notice however.
The W unit might save some time. Is it as easy to use as the regular Vario? Instead of setting time to grind, you set mass in grams you want? Seems really slick. I assume it is accurate enough for brewing coffee purposes.
Not totally sure that I want to give up the ceramic burrs in case I want to make espresso someday and buy a machine. I gave away my old espresso machine years ago and haven't bought a replacement ... Yet.

TD

 

[jammin]

^the W is very accurate. I had the same accuracy concerns but baratza nailed it.

You have 3 different weights you can very easily program (instead of time). Just hit the one you want and grind.


Scooping or eye-balling coffee is not that accurate and I believing weighing delivers a much better cup. All the high-end cafes use this practice.

Dose is even more critical for espresso, like really critical.


Dosing by time is good, but can vary with degree of roast and density of beans. Switching from a Kenyan to an Ethiopian will probably show some noticeable variance.

Maybe throw a couple doses on the scale over the next few weekends to get an idea of the accuracy is acceptable to you

 

[TrickyDick]

I emailed Baratza about a trade up. Would certainly be more convenient and time saver to be able to grind for grams of ground coffee desired than manually weigh on scale before adding beans to hopper everyday. I would rather just swap for the W and buy a separate set of steel burrs and hang onto the ceramic in case I every get an espresso machine.

Let me know if you ever track down Michael's email at HotTop.

TD

 

[Bensiff]

I emailed Baratza about a trade up. Would certainly be more convenient and time saver to be able to grind for grams of ground coffee desired than manually weigh on scale before adding beans to hopper everyday. I would rather just swap for the W and buy a separate set of steel burrs and hang onto the ceramic in case I every get an espresso machine.

Let me know if you ever track down Michael's email at HotTop.

TD

Let me know what you hear...I got mine right when the W came out so it was untested and really expensive. But, now I would be interested in trading up depending on the cost.

 

[TrickyDick]

I'll let you know what the cost to swap is. Frankly, if it's more than $100 incl shipping, I don't think I'd do it, as I can already easily measure the beans per brew and I'm not sure the convenience factor is worth more than that.

I'm more interested in getting into roasting. I did some more beans in the air popper and I really like the smoothness in the coffee. I so far have not particularly enjoyed the green Kenya beans however.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I have a confession: I've been using a blade grinder the past few years.

I know, I know. It's basically as sinful as pitching yeast into 90 degree wort, but hey, the wife had a good point: "why buy something when what we have works just fine?" Well, she didn't understand it didn't work just fine, but I digress. It seems funny to be roasting up some really good coffee but milling it up unevenly with a blade.

So yesterday she says, "okay, go ahead and get the burr grinder". And guess what: just like clockwork today, the blade grinder appears to be on it's last leg. It's ironic timing, but I'll take it.

 

[passedpawn]

I have a confession: I've been using a blade grinder the past few years.

I know, I know. It's basically as sinful as pitching yeast into 90 degree wort, but hey, the wife had a good point: "why buy something when what we have works just fine?" Well, she didn't understand it didn't work just fine, but I digress. It seems funny to be roasting up some really good coffee but milling it up unevenly with a blade.

So yesterday she says, "okay, go ahead and get the burr grinder". And guess what: just like clockwork today, the blade grinder appears to be on it's last leg. It's ironic timing, but I'll take it.

Very suspicious timing. I suspect foul play.

I'm still using a blade grinder too. I noticed a Vario pop up two days ago on craigslist. Hmmm...

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I had posted the other day about an Ethiopian I took a little too far into 2C. Tried it today (a little more prematurely than I would have liked), and it was really really good. Not wholly complex in flavor, but had just an incredible berry flavor - I was afraid this would have been lost in roasting it as far as I did. Looking forward to letting it rest a few extra days to see if it becomes more complex.

 

[TallDan]

You don't need to wait for your spinning blade coffee grinder to die, just put a sticker on it that says "spice grinder", then point out that you don't actually have a coffee grinder and need to go get one!

 

[passedpawn]

You don't need to wait for your spinning blade coffee grinder to die, just put a sticker on it that says "spice grinder", then point out that you don't actually have a coffee grinder and need to go get one!

Haha, I also uses mine to grind spices. I just ground a mess of peppercorns and coriander for a pastrami. That taste will now be in my coffee for the next week, but I kinda like it

 

[TrickyDick]

Ok so the upgrade is rather costly to trade in.
Basically 259 bucks plus s&h.
Think I'm just going to get a set of steel burrs.

 

[jammin]

I'll let you know what the cost to swap is. Frankly, if it's more than $100 incl shipping, I don't think I'd do it, as I can already easily measure the beans per brew and I'm not sure the convenience factor is worth more than that.

I'm more interested in getting into roasting. I did some more beans in the air popper and I really like the smoothness in the coffee. I so far have not particularly enjoyed the green Kenya beans however.

Kenyans are the most acidc and difficult beans to roast. I felt the same way about them for a long time.

Once i "cracked the code" on them, they are easily my favorite. The secret is a long stretch with a low rise.

 

[TrickyDick]

Ahhh. Well darn! They are one of my favorites in the commercial beans I've had. I'm not currently equipped to roast them so I'll hang on to them for now. You mentioned Central American and South American beans if I recall as being easier to air roast with a popper. Any specific beans among those that does best in an air popper roaster?
The other bag I got, Ethiopia sidamo is quite smooth, but perhaps too much so. I'm not really a connosieur at this point but I know what tastes good to me. Seems my roast lacks body and/or complexity perhaps.
I can see the argument to SWMBO. Need that 1200 dollar roaster so I don't have to waste the 9 dollars I spent on those green Kenya beans!! LOL!

 

[jammin]

Guat's are like Kenyans little brother.

They both have impeccable processing and dense bean structure. Guat's tend to be a little less acidic and more "rounded". This makes them easier to roast and might be a great compromise in the cup for you. The juejeutenango's (way-way-te-nang-go) and pacamara's from this region are excellent choices if you find some that sound interesting.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Kenyans are the most acidc and difficult beans to roast. I felt the same way about them for a long time.

Once i "cracked the code" on them, they are easily my favorite. The secret is a long stretch with a low rise.

When you say, "long stretch with a low rise", do you mean long 1 Crack, and a slow rise in temp to get to 1C? Or maybe a long 1C and then come out of 1C slowly?

 

[jammin]

^good question. roasting terminology is pretty confusing, even amongst "serious" enthusiasts


The "stretch" is 3rd and final phase of the roast. It's start is indicated by the onset of 1C (first crack) and is terminated when you dump the roast.

So if I hit 1C at 9:00 and dump the beans at 12:00, I had 3 minute stretch.


Kenyans shine with a long stretch with a modest rise in temp from the temp at which 1C starts. A good RoR (rate of rise) in the stretch can be anywhere from 3-10 degrees per minute depending on desired outcome and intended brewing method.

So for me, I like to stretch a Kenyan a good 3 minutes with 3-5* RoR for a nice, balanced cup without puckering acidity. YMMV of course based on taste and bean selection



PS - it should be noted that Kenyans actually hold up quite well to darker roasts! I'm no expert on technique for this, but I would lean towards a higher RoR in the stretch for best results

 

[TrickyDick]

Sounds like you are the Obi Wan of coffee roasting and I am not yet even a Padawan!
Can that HotTop roaster give a precision stretch rise over time like that, or do you need a rig like that one you use?
Any details on that rig you're using? Those HotTop roasters are pricey, sort of wondering if a DIY roaster could be built inexpensively with a. RPi, thermocouple, low RPM motors, old popcorn popper parts or Quartz heating elements..

TD

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Can that HotTop roaster give a precision stretch rise over time like that, or do you need a rig like that one you use?

I'm no Jammin' as he's definitely more invested and experience in this than I am, but from a budget conscious point of view I would just briefly mention you don't NEEEEEED to spend a ton of money to roast great coffee. And I say that with absolutely nothing but respect to Jammin'.

As I lamented earlier today, my wife gives me a hard time about spending any money (I mean, seriously: we'll spend $100 on dinner but I can't have a nice grinder for a little more??!!!), so I had to be cost conscious when buying by roaster (Behmor) but I love it. Sure I would have loved to throw down $1,000 for a roaster, but it didn't make sense - especially since I've only been at it for half a year.

Anyways: just thought I'd jump in with this. Take it for what it's worth, but thought I'd mention it since it's a lot of money to spend on a "new" hobby. :rockin:

 

[jammin]

No doubt the Hottop can produce superb results. It's a beautifuly simple machine and can do nearly anything you'd ask of it.

Best part is, the learning curve is very fast.



If you're willing to tinker, a stir crazy/turbo oven isn't much of a challenge to build. They are quite nimble with producing any desired roast curve. Capacity is good too. 10-12oz are a reality.

I've built a couple bread machine/heat gun rigs and have had terrific results there as well.


Of everything I've roasted on, the Hottop gave me the best results with the least amount of effort/skill.

 

[jammin]

Speaking of roasting, I better get with it today!! My grinder is riding on fumes


My green coffee stash is also on fumes. I haven't seen anything worth buying at Sweet Maria's in quite a well. I have my on eye on a couple recent offerings over at Roast Masters though. Their prices are usually a little high, but their coffee is always quality

 

[1975brewer]

Just want to jump in & say hi. I just joined HBT in Jan. & haven't looked at the coffee threads until today. The talk about the grinders made me want to relate my experience. I've been roasting for about 3 years & I'm no expert. I only roast to get a fresh product. when I started roasting I bought a Brazen coffee maker & was grinding with a Cuisinart burr grinder that I already had. After about a year I bought a Preciso. The morning I first used it. By the time I sat down with my cup of coffee I had forgotten about the new grinder & was wondering why my coffee was so very good that morning. When I finally remembered the new grinder I was really sorry I hadn't done it sooner it was the single biggest improvement to my morning brew.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

By the time I sat down with my cup of coffee I had forgotten about the new grinder & was wondering why my coffee was so very good that morning. When I finally remembered the new grinder I was really sorry I hadn't done it sooner it was the single biggest improvement to my morning brew.

That's it - you sold me. I'm going to get that dang grinder today!

Welcome to the thread!

 

[jammin]

I'd love to give that preciso a week or two on my counter. It's burr geometry is very unique and has high praise from those in the know.


I can say Virtuoso produced the best press pot grind of any grinder I've owned. If I were to buy a grinder for single dose grinding (weigh dose and grind), that would be it

 

[jammin]

Here is today's roast. These beans were vac sealed at least 3 years ago I want to say so I knew their quality would be good, but questionable.

Here is the roast curve - I am pretty happy with this one. Came in at just the right roast level (I hope) with an ample stretch for this highly acidic coffee. I only have 8oz left - it's one of the best Kenyan's Ive ever had

Here is the label SM's sent out - if this doesn't make your mouth water, I don't know what will. Tom has a way with selling points, so i take what he says with a grain of salt - but this is exactly the lines that catch my eye.

Not that you can really tell much about a roast from a pic, but here is one anyways. Perfect City+ which you can distinguish by the slight wrinkling on the surface of the bean, semi-tight seams and still somewhat sharp edges.