Building grain bill for extract IPA

TravelingLight · Jan 4, 2016

I'm gearing up for my first. Going to do an extract IPA. I'm not doing a kit (that's a whole other discussion for another day) and I've got a buddy who is an experience HB'er who's going to help where I need it. But I want to build my own recipe. I've got my thoughts and what I want to do with my hop schedule, but I'd like some guidance on my grain/extract.

Currently, I am thinking of starting off with:
7(ish?) lbs. Pale LME
1(ish?) lbs. Munich LME
After that, I'm stuck. After much reading and researching, I want to minimize (or preferably, omit entirely) the crystal malts.

Also, should I go with the Munich LME? Or replace it with something else? For hops, I plan on using 3-4 different hops. Also, minimize bittering additions, keep the flavoring/late-boil additions low. And then massively hop it at whirlpool and dry hop. Also, I've got to give props to m00ps for helping guide me on my hop schedule. Been reading a lot of his IPA notes and thoughts. TIA.

ETA: Rereading some of @m00ps stuff, what about adding some wheat instead of the Munich to help with body?

TexasDroughtBrewery · Jan 4, 2016

You don't have to use Crystals if you don't want to. Also how many gallons are you trying to brew this information will help to see if you are on the right track.

TravelingLight · Jan 4, 2016

TexasDroughtBrewery said:
You don't have to use Crystals if you don't want to. Also how many gallons are you trying to brew this information will help to see if you are on the right track.

Ahh, good call. Sorry about that. 5 gallon batch.

chickypad · Jan 4, 2016

8 lb of LME is going to get you around 1.057, so you may want to bump that up a bit for an IPA. Munich is a perfectly fine option to add a bit of character without using crystal malts - it's got more of a malty taste to it. Realize that most munich extracts are 50/50 2-row and munich, so currently that would put you at 6% munich malt for the whole recipe. I don't know that you want a lot of body in an IPA, but if you use wheat malt it needs to be mashed. Wheat extract is typically 40-60% wheat and the rest base. Carapils will have a similar effect on body and head retention, I think most extracts have a little bit in them already.

TravelingLight · Jan 4, 2016

chickypad said:
8 lb of LME is going to get you around 1.057, so you may want to bump that up a bit for an IPA. Munich is a perfectly fine option to add a bit of character without using crystal malts - it's got more of a malty taste to it. Realize that most munich extracts are 50/50 2-row and munich, so currently that would put you at 6% munich malt for the whole recipe. I don't know that you want a lot of body in an IPA, but if you use wheat malt it needs to be mashed. Wheat extract is typically 40-60% wheat and the rest base. Carapils will have a similar effect on body and head retention, I think most extracts have a little bit in them already.

Damn. Good call! Munich is out then. I'm not a fan of malty IPAs. I feel like a dummy though. I knew that about Munich and had a total brain fart. Good looking out!
Carapils sounds more along the lines of what I'm looking for. I'm gonna do some homework on that tonight. Gonna look at bumping up that LME too. Thanks for the advice and homework assignment!

Bramstoker17 · Jan 5, 2016

Its been a little bit since I've used extract, but I always thought light extract had carapils already. I'd personally be hesitant to use carapils in an extract beer. That being said, I do use it in my all grain IPA recipes, but thats with being able to control other factors like wort fermentability.

I'm a firm believer in using some wheat in my IPA's. A pound of wheat extract might be really nice in an IPA, but I guess it depends on what type of IPA you like. I've grown a bit worn out on the more West Coast dry and crisp IPAs and I tend to like the citrus juice type IPAs that are more typical of the Northeast breweries.

TravelingLight · Jan 5, 2016

Bramstoker17 said:
Its been a little bit since I've used extract, but I always thought light extract had carapils already. I'd personally be hesitant to use carapils in an extract beer. That being said, I do use it in my all grain IPA recipes, but thats with being able to control other factors like wort fermentability.

I'm a firm believer in using some wheat in my IPA's. A pound of wheat extract might be really nice in an IPA, but I guess it depends on what type of IPA you like. I've grown a bit worn out on the more West Coast dry and crisp IPAs and I tend to like the citrus juice type IPAs that are more typical of the Northeast breweries.

I like this right here. So you're saying I can use wheat extract, i.e., I won't have to mash in? Worst case, I think my buddy could help me out if I absolutely had to mash in. But if at all possible, I'd like to avoid it for this brew.

chickypad · Jan 5, 2016

Right, with wheat extact the wheat has already been mashed. For calculations check the brand but most have about 40-60% wheat and the rest barley base. For just head retention about 5% wheat would be fine, but you can certainly use more if you want more in the recipe.

Bramstoker17 · Jan 5, 2016

Yep, what Chickypad said! Nothing you need to mash. I'd just do all light or extra light extract, a pound or two of wheat extract, and do what you what you were planning to do with the hop schedule. You should come out with a really nice beer!

TravelingLight · Jan 5, 2016

Bramstoker17 said:
Yep, what Chickypad said! Nothing you need to mash. I'd just do all light or extra light extract, a pound or two of wheat extract, and do what you what you were planning to do with the hop schedule. You should come out with a really nice beer!

Fantastic! Can't thank you all enough for so kindly helping me out. I've got to figure out if I want to use light or extra light. Going to look into that now. It's taken me so long to get to this point. But I typically fall into a trap of being so anal and OCD about things that sometimes I have to force myself to just do it and stop obsessing over the minor details.

Tknishi · Jan 5, 2016

I just did a couple of extract IPA recipes, that didn't come out too great, to sweet and malty for me. You can check the feedback I got, as well as the two recipes that I tried:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=545681

Couple things I definitely will do on my next attempt is 1) replace some LME with Dextrose, 2) cut out all crystal malts, and 3) make a full boil with no topoff water.

TravelingLight · Jan 5, 2016

Tknishi said:
I just did a couple of extract IPA recipes, that didn't come out too great, to sweet and malty for me. You can check the feedback I got, as well as the two recipes that I tried:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=545681

Couple things I definitely will do on my next attempt is 1) replace some LME with Dextrose, 2) cut out all crystal malts, and 3) make a full boil with no topoff water.

Thanks for the link. Funny you bring it up, I've actually read through your thread a few times since coming across it the other day. Do you think most of the maltiness came from the Munich? Come to think of it, I think your recipe was the initial catalyst for me considering Munich in mine. But when I was reminded of the maltiness, I decided to drop it. I think I'm going to dry hop mine in two different stages, basically two different dry hop additions. And I'm going to do some big(ger) hopstand additions.

TaoBrewer · Jan 5, 2016

I'm no expert and have only done 3 batches of IPA, but have read a ton on it and what I learned is that using some plain corn sugar is very helpful to IPA as it keeps the malty sweetness down and helps give a dryer foundation for the hops to really jump off of. My batch with 1 1/2 pound of corn sugar was MUCH better than my others with all extract and grain. Also, pitching a lot of yeast helps and really oxygenating the wort before pitching. Those are the three things I've learned, as a beginner, that dramatically improved the quality of my IPA much moreso than the combination of grains/extracts. YMMV. I also agree 100% with your thoughts on hopping it.

Tknishi · Jan 5, 2016

TravelingLight said:
Thanks for the link. Funny you bring it up, I've actually read through your thread a few times since coming across it the other day. Do you think most of the maltiness came from the Munich? Come to think of it, I think your recipe was the initial catalyst for me considering Munich in mine. But when I was reminded of the maltiness, I decided to drop it. I think I'm going to dry hop mine in two different stages, basically two different dry hop additions. And I'm going to do some big(ger) hopstand additions.

I don't think so, my second recipe I used pilsen and pale malt, and to me that was still too malty. Another thing I forgot to mention is that I'm pretty sure I underpitched my yeast, so that also probably increased the sweetness and maltiness. Good luck, let us know how it comes out!

TravelingLight · Jan 5, 2016

TaoBrewer said:
I'm no expert and have only done 3 batches of IPA, but have read a ton on it and what I learned is that using some plain corn sugar is very helpful to IPA as it keeps the malty sweetness down and helps give a dryer foundation for the hops to really jump off of. My batch with 1 1/2 pound of corn sugar was MUCH better than my others with all extract and grain. Also, pitching a lot of yeast helps and really oxygenating the wort before pitching. Those are the three things I've learned, as a beginner, that dramatically improved the quality of my IPA much moreso than the combination of grains/extracts. YMMV. I also agree 100% with your thoughts on hopping it.

Fantastic advice. I really appreciate it. Do you have any of your recipes posted on here? Would love to see some of them. Cheers.

Tknishi said:
I don't think so, my second recipe I used pilsen and pale malt, and to me that was still too malty. Another thing I forgot to mention is that I'm pretty sure I underpitched my yeast, so that also probably increased the sweetness and maltiness. Good luck, let us know how it comes out!

Awesome, thanks. I plan to brew sometime this month, just need to get some work things off my plate and a free Saturday to make it happen. I'll report back!

TravelingLight · Jan 6, 2016

Alright, so here is my "draft" (teehee) recipe:

Extract:
10# Light LME
1# Wheat DME
1.5# Corn sugar

Hops: [all pellet]
1 oz. Warrior [60 min]
0.5 oz. Citra [15 min]
0.5 oz. Cascade [15 min]
0.5 oz. Centennial [15 min]
1 oz. Citra [Flameout]
0.5 oz. Cascade [Flameout]
0.5 oz. Centennial [Flameout]
0.5 oz. Citra [Hopstand (when wort ~180)]
0.5 oz. Cascade [Hopstand (when wort ~180)]
0.5 oz. Centennial [Hopstand (when wort ~180)]

0.5 oz. Citra [Dry hop (one week before racking)]
0.5 oz. Cascade [Dry hop (one week before racking)]
0.5 oz. Centennial [Dry hop (one week before racking)]
0.5 oz. Citra [Dry hop (3-4 days before racking)]
0.5 oz. Cascade [Dry hop (3-4 days before racking)]
0.5 oz. Centennial [Dry hop (3-4 days before racking)]

I plugged it all into a beer calc and came up with the following...
OG = 1.091
FG = 1.023
IBU = 96
SRM = 5
ABV = 8.8

So what do I need to adjust? For starters, I wasn't shooting for an eight percenter. I love a good high ABV IPA/IIPA, but wasn't specifically shooting for that with this. Also, what about the OG? Do I need to get that down some? I am open to any and all suggestions! FWIW...my hop schedule (including DH and hopstand) were modeled after some of @m00ps practices and methods. Thanks.

ETA: Just tweaked it by dropping the Light LME to 8#, kept everything else the same:
OG: 1.077
FG: 1.019
IBU: 104 (!!!!)
SRM: 4
ABC: 7.5

Building grain bill for extract IPA

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