ryantollefson
Well-Known Member
First time doing a yeast starter... found out it's a bad idea to heat your water in an Erlenmeyer flask first, and then try to add DME to it. It makes a huge mess. 
DME + Hot Erlenmeyer = Bad
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Samuelouellette
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BHAhahhahah I did the same thing my first time!
Now I add a bit of hot tap water, add dme then add the rest of water and heat in on the stove.
Now I add a bit of hot tap water, add dme then add the rest of water and heat in on the stove.
flars
Well-Known Member
Much safer to make the starter wort in a kettle, cool, and then pour into the flask. Erlenmeyer flasks are the perfect design for creating volcanoes over high heat.
I swear every time I make a starter in the flask I say it will be my last! I tried to remedy the above by using a long necked funnel - clogged, paper "shoot" - gunked up the end. This is followed by and obligatory boil over stinking the house up as the DME water hits the flame. Going back to the pot then flask method from now on....
Haha I guess this is where being kinda cheap saved my butt. I had to start with this method since I do starters in glass juice jugs.
ryantollefson
Well-Known Member
BHAhahhahah I did the same thing my first time!
Now I add a bit of hot tap water, add dme then add the rest of water and heat in on the stove.
Yeah, I might try that next time.
If completely dry & cool, is it easy to pour DME in the Erlenmeyer?
I get what flars is saying with boil over, but didn't run into that issue using a hot plate and I had a decent amount of head space (2.6L starter, 3L flask)... Saying that, I'll probably post a pic of my boil over in a month.
Two tips to save you folks a lot of headache
1.) Measure the amount of liquid you need using flask, pour into an appropriately sized pot, add DME, add heat and stir with whisk until dissolved and THEN use a funnel to transfer into the erlenmeyer flask and continue to heat.
2.) Use 1 drop of FermcapS or whatever de-foamer your homebrew store sells to prevent boil overs and blow-offs in the flask. This stuff is a lifesaver for flasks.
1.) Measure the amount of liquid you need using flask, pour into an appropriately sized pot, add DME, add heat and stir with whisk until dissolved and THEN use a funnel to transfer into the erlenmeyer flask and continue to heat.
2.) Use 1 drop of FermcapS or whatever de-foamer your homebrew store sells to prevent boil overs and blow-offs in the flask. This stuff is a lifesaver for flasks.
Even easier is to use a larger pot, boil the DME without or without Fermcap. Cool the wort in the pot, pour it in the flask, add the yeast and put it on your stirplate.
falkaveli
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+1
I heat mine on direct fire (turned on low) in the flask with no issues...with this method.
This is what i do.
d3track
Are you sure about that?
Or you could add the DME then the water. Dry makes it easier.
I hate DME. It is the worst substance created by mankind.
It clumps when you look at it, is sticky as hell, and virtually impossible to transfer without getting it in your hair, eyes, lungs, and all over the place.
It never wants to pour, so you tap it to try and move it along. Suddenly, it takes off like a small DME avalanche and goes everywhere.
If there is steam or water vapor within 100 yards of it, it solidifies and forms a small brick. It won't budge in this form, but if you try to pick it up, it reverts to powder form again.
I hate DME.
kombat
Well-Known Member
If you're not happy with the mess and hassle of dealing with trying to boil DME and dealing with flasks and whatnot, might I suggest you consider canning your starter wort? You can mix up the DME in warm water and just pour it into jars. Then run the jars through the pressure canner. No need to worry about boil-overs, or chilling it, or worrying about sanitization and so on. Just cook it at 15 psi for 20 minutes, then once it cools enough, remove the lid from the canner and tighten down the rings of the jars until they've cooled off and the lids "pop" inward. Then remove the rings and place the jars in storage until you need them.
This is really smart.
falkaveli
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I'm dying to try this and make super high gravity "wort concentrate" and diluting with bottled water for larger starters.
ryantollefson
Well-Known Member
Maybe some day I'll get to canning my starter wort. At least for now I have learned from my last mistake.
- Added DME to dry flask
- Added H2O to flask
- Swirled to mix well
- Applied heat
Maybe some day I'll get to canning my starter wort. At least for now I have learned from my last mistake.
- Added DME to dry flask
- Added H2O to flask
- Swirled to mix well
- Applied heat
I like my way better. I use a wide mouth canning jar. Much easier to get the DME into that wide mouth. Put it in the microwave to heat. Cool it and add yeast. Cover with Saran wrap held on with a rubber band. Shake it occasionally. Same yeast growth as with a stir plate, takes a bit longer so I start a day earlier.
That's a neat little plate. I've always been worried about heating my flask even though it states it is a Bomex Erienmeyer flask. Maybe I should try a small hot plate.Maybe some day I'll get to canning my starter wort. At least for now I have learned from my last mistake.
- Added DME to dry flask
- Added H2O to flask
- Swirled to mix well
- Applied heat
kombat
Well-Known Member
I agree that the wide mouth and non-conical shape of a canning jar makes it much easier to mix the wort and minimize the risk of a "volcano," but it's incorrect to state that shaking produces the "same" yeast growth as a stirred starter. A stirred starter produces more yeast cells in a shorter time. But as long as you account for that in your calculation of starter volume, you can still get the required yeast cell count with simple occasional shaking.
I think it was WoodlandBrews that did an experiment on the growth of yeast cells and found that the stir plate did indeed get the growth faster but that the unstirred sample ended up with the same amount of yeast cells. You simple need to plan a bit farther ahead if you don't use a stir plate.
Careful. I had one of those flasks. They heat better over flame. Coils can make them heat unevenly and cause cracking. Ask me how I know.
shanecb
Well-Known Member
A couple weeks ago I boiled my starter in the flask. Realized I hadn't put my stir bar into the flask before the boil (I sometimes do to sanitize the stir bar during the boil). So, after turning the flame off I absentmindedly dropped the stir bar into the flask...
The stove is probably STILL sticky.
The stove is probably STILL sticky.
shanecb
Well-Known Member
EDIT: double post by accident. I don't know how to delete...
ryantollefson
Well-Known Member
I could see that... this one is a flat cast iron top, seems it should be fairly even, but I've only used it twice so far. Anyone have more experience with a hot plate like this?
My biggest concern has been a water bath after to cool it. I've been letting it sit on a kitchen hot pad for a while before putting it in warm water to try to cool a bit slower.
Don't worry about cooling fast with borosilicate.
I boil my starters in the flask (1 drop of Fermcap-S means no boilover concerns)
Off the flame and into cold water in the sink. No problems every time.
I boil my starters in the flask (1 drop of Fermcap-S means no boilover concerns)
Off the flame and into cold water in the sink. No problems every time.
Once I added a pinch of yeast nutrient to the flask after I had removed it from heat. Nice volcano, with sticky wort everywhere.
Now I just boil the wort in a saucepan and pour it into the Erlenmeyer. And I make sure to add everything before it comes to a boil.
Now I just boil the wort in a saucepan and pour it into the Erlenmeyer. And I make sure to add everything before it comes to a boil.
ryantollefson
Well-Known Member
I just did the same thing... thankfully no damage.
fredfoodphilly
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I have an idea for a great product, I would love input on whether or not the Homebrewtalkers would consider buying it, here goes;
A #5(Tall Juice)can of 1.040 light malt
All you would need to do is sanitize the lid by spraying, as you do your yeast pack, pour it in a clean and sanitized erlenmeyer and you are ready to go, no boiling, cooling, waiting, etc.
Let me know!
A #5(Tall Juice)can of 1.040 light malt
All you would need to do is sanitize the lid by spraying, as you do your yeast pack, pour it in a clean and sanitized erlenmeyer and you are ready to go, no boiling, cooling, waiting, etc.
Let me know!
flars
Well-Known Member
Go to Northern Brewer and look up "Fast Pitch". Comes in 4-paks.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/fast-pitch-coming-soon
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fredfoodphilly
Well-Known Member
That's awesome, I hope my LHBS stocks it.
kombat
Well-Known Member
Nope, you actually get more cells in less time, not the same amount of cells. Source: Mr. Malty:
MrMalty said:
I know they're biased, but the good folks at Stir Starters say:
StirStarters said:
Not the same amount of yeast in less time, but actually more yeast in less time. So it's not a matter of simply waiting longer or planning ahead - you get more yeast with a stirred starter.
There are plenty more links, and I believe the science of why you get more yeast with a stirred starter is even explained in the book "Yeast," but I don't have my copy of my book in front of me at the moment.
kombat
Well-Known Member
I don't get why anyone would make their starter right in the flask. Between the risk of a volcano (owing to the tapered shape of the neck), and the risk of cracking and shattering during heating or chilling, why not just use a plain old pot and eliminate all those risks? Is it really just so you don't have to clean a pot?
ryantollefson
Well-Known Member
- It looks cool and sciency.
- Less to clean = faster
- Don't need to sanitize (less chance of infection)
- With hot plate you don't need to do it in the kitchen
Then again volcanos & broken glass might cancel out the no clean = faster part.
I don't see how that's easier. If using a funnel and fermcap, you don't need the pot at all.
Keep your stirbar in the flask while heating / boiling. This way, everything is sanitized when you're done.
I've done this at least 50 times without any issue. The stir bar will NOT lose its magnetization. It won't boil over if you add a few drops of fermcap. You won't have any trouble adding the DME if you add it with a funnel before heating the water (steam gunks up the works).
Nope, you actually get the same amount of yeast cells by stirring as you do without the stir plate but it does take more time. http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2015/02/yeast-starters-stirred-vs-not.html
BTW, there's no reason to leave it boiling (AFAIK). As soon as it's bubbling, I take it off the heat and start cooling. All you're trying to accomplish here is to dissolve the DME and santize everything.
kombat
Well-Known Member
- It looks cool and sciency.
- Less to clean = faster
- Don't need to sanitize (less chance of infection)
- With hot plate you don't need to do it in the kitchen
Well #3 is invalid, because a hotplate will boil a pot just as easily as it will boil a flask. And how much time are you really saving? I just give my pot a rinse, a gentle scrub, and it goes into the dishwasher. Maybe 20 seconds? As for sanitizing, you can swirl some StarSan around inside your flask with your stir bar while the pot is chilling down in the sink.
I just don't get it. It's all risk with no reward.
I'm also a little leery of Fermcap. I did some research, and it seems its health effects are, at best, poorly understood. The less chemically-things I put in my beer, the better.
I understand where you're coming from... but really... one or two drops per 5 gallons????
That being said, I've never used it, but it seems like a great idea.kombat
Well-Known Member
I'm going to stick with the advice of the guys who literally wrote the book on yeast, and the guy who owns a multinational yeast company. They say stirring is better, so I'm going to keep using my stir plate.
