Confusion! Steeping oats?

I had planned on brewing my second batch ever - first that isn't from a kit. I settled on this one:

Recipe Type: Extract
Yeast: Windsor
Yeast Starter: None
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: None
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.052
Final Gravity: 1.024
IBU: ~17
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: ~35 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 11 @ 70
Tasting Notes: Nearly opaque with a creamy tan head. Subtly sweet, toasted malts come through, crisp

M.O. Stout (Milk Oatmeal Stout)

Light Dry Malt Extract – 4.5 lbs
Black Patent – 8 oz
Chocolate Malt – 12 oz
CARAPILS – 8 oz
Lactose – 1 lb
Oats, Flaked – 1 lb
Fuggle Pellet Hops – 1 oz (60 min)
Fuggle Pellet Hops - 1 oz (5 min)
Windsor Yeast
Irish Moss - 1 tsp

Steep oats for 15 minutes at 115 F.
Bring temp up to 155.
Steep grains and oats for 45 minutes.
Remove from heat.
Add malt extract.
Bring to boil.
Add bittering hops with 60 minutes remaining.
Add 1 tsp Irish Moss and 1 lb lactose at with 15 min remaining.
Add aroma hops with 5 minutes remaining.


Now, this recipe clearly says to steep the oats. I couldn't get flaked oats at my local brew shop so I started researching a supermarket alternative. What I found in my research is some serious disagreement on this subject and I'm looking for a little clarity. I've seen the following opinions:

1. Quaker Steel cut oats are perfect for this



2. Instant oats are better for steeping than steel cut.

3. You absolutely get NOTHING out of trying to steep oats and if they are going to be used in a recipe, they MUST be mashed.

4. Quaker steel cut oats WILL steep, but need to be cooked first.


My head is spinning!! I've certainly seen a fair share of people that say steeping oats does not work at all, BUT, there are people who have made that extract recipe I posted above and said it turned out great...

You have nailed the debate. One thing pretty much everyone is in agreement with is that you will need to mash to get convertible sugars out of the oats. My (untested) opinion is that although steeping oats will only add a bunch of unconverted starches to your beer, it will still add flavor and body/mouthfeel. Many people feel that flaked wheat and flaked oats are flavor neutral... I'm not convinced. I've done extract recipes in the past with and without flaked oats/wheat... IMHO, I definitely notice a fuller bodied beer with a hint of creamy oat/wheat in the taste.

This is what John Palmer says about which oats to use...

Palmer said:

Oatmeal 1 L Oats are wonderful in a porter or stout. Oatmeal lends a smooth, silky mouthfeel and a creaminess to a stout that must be tasted to be understood. Oats are available whole, steel-cut (i.e. grits), rolled, and flaked. Rolled and flaked oats have had their starches gelatinized (made soluble) by heat and pressure, and are most readily available as "Instant Oatmeal" in the grocery store. Whole oats and "Old Fashioned Rolled Oats" have not had the degree of gelatinization that Instant have had and must be cooked before adding to the mash. "Quick" oatmeal has had a degree of gelatinization but does benefit from being cooked before adding to the mash. Cook according to the directions on the box (but add more water) to ensure that the starches will be fully utilized. Use 0.5-1.5 lb. per 5 gal batch. Oats need to be mashed with barley malt (and its enzymes) for conversion.

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THANKS! well, I guess there's nothing wrong with me trying it. I was more worried it was going to contribute something negative rather than just not contribute something positive. I read Palmer's book, I just wasn't sure what that meant for steeping, whereas he seems to only be talking about AG.



So these are ok to steep in that recipe in lieu of something from my home brew shop? I know you said it will add mouthfeel, but will the unconverted starches you speak of contribute something negative? Sorry, still very new to this.

You get no sugars from steeping oats. They need to be mashed to convert the starches. I don't know what you get from steeping.

I would go and buy a couple of lbs of 2-row and do a mini mash. You need to 2-row to provide the enzymes to convert the starches. It really isn't that difficult, it is just a controlled steep:

- use 1.3 quarts of water for every lb of grain. You have 2.75 lbs. Add 2 lbs of crushed 2-row and you have 4.75 lbs. Use 6 quarts of water.
- Heat to 160/165 F. Add grains (easy if you have them in a 5 gallon paint strainer bag). Temp will drop to 150/155 F. Leave for 30 minutes, stirring occasionally.
- Remove bag and drain. Collect drained wort and add to main wort.
- Heat a second pot with 4 to 6 quarts of water to 170 F. Place grains (in bag) in water. Leave for 10 minutes stirring occasionally.
- Remove bag, drain, and add liquid to wort.

This way you get the sugars from the oats and the 2-row, and also get more sugars from the chocolate, Black, and Carapils.

Give it a try, it is not going to take any longer than the 1 hour steep in the recipe. With the added 2-row, and conversion of the oats, and the extra sugars from the specialty grains, you could probably drop 2 lbs or more of the DME and get the same gravity. At 80% mash efficiency, 2 lbs of 2-row and 1 lb of oats will give the same sugars as 2 lbs of DME, and then there are the extra sugars from the specialty grains (you may not get 80%).

Use instant oatmeal. Steel cut needs to be gelatinized first.

Thanks. Im really not ready for any mashing just yet. I'd like to try steeping and just see how it goes. If I'm steeping, should I still not use the steel cut?

Personally, I'd follow Palmer's recommendation and use the instant oats.

J187 said:

Thanks. Im really not ready for any mashing just yet. I'd like to try steeping and just see how it goes. If I'm steeping, should I still not use the steel cut?

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You'd have to at least cook them if not using flaked oats from the LHBS or Quaker's Quick Oats.

I wouldn't steep oats- unless you like a starchy haze in your beer. But if you add one pound of two row (crushed) to the grains, and hold them at 155 for 60 minutes, you'll mash them.

Thanks guys... I've heard from some who have made the recipe and who have steeped flaked oats and they've told me it turns out great... I'm gonna try another HBS for flaked oats, if not, I'll grab some quick oats.

I steeped half a pound oats for my first Breakfast Stout and it it turned out awesome. Nice and smooth. I also did not have any haze issues, (it's a stout, so what little I could see through the edges looked nice and clear). If you do think about a mini-mash look at possibly using 6-row instead of the 2-row, it has more Diastatic Power.

Recipe Type: Extract
Yeast: Windsor
Yeast Starter: None
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: None
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.052
Final Gravity: 1.024
IBU: ~17
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: ~35 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 11 @ 70
Tasting Notes: Nearly opaque with a creamy tan head. Subtly sweet, toasted malts come through, crisp

M.O. Stout (Milk Oatmeal Stout)

Light Dry Malt Extract – 4.5 lbs
Black Patent – 8 oz
Chocolate Malt – 12 oz
CARAPILS – 8 oz
Lactose – 1 lb
Oats, Flaked – 1 lb
Fuggle Pellet Hops – 1 oz (60 min)
Fuggle Pellet Hops - 1 oz (5 min)
Windsor Yeast
Irish Moss - 1 tsp

Steep oats for 15 minutes at 115 F.
Bring temp up to 155.
Steep grains and oats for 45 minutes.
Remove from heat.
Add malt extract.
Bring to boil.
Add bittering hops with 60 minutes remaining.
Add 1 tsp Irish Moss and 1 lb lactose at with 15 min remaining.
Add aroma hops with 5 minutes remaining

One more question... The recipe calls for Hop Pellets. I'll be using raw hops. I've read pellets have about a 10% higher extraction rate...should I use 10% more bittering hops to account?

J187 said:

One more question... The recipe calls for Hop Pellets. I'll be using raw hops. I've read pellets have about a 10% higher extraction rate...should I use 10% more bittering hops to account?

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Yes, increase the amount of whole leaf hops by 10% to compensate.

BigB said:

My (untested) opinion is that although steeping oats will only add a bunch of unconverted starches to your beer, it will still add flavor and body/mouthfeel.

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In fact if it show up in an extract with grains recipe that is exactly what it is there for, not to be mashed but for body/mouth feel and some of the proteins to provide head retention. When I did extract with grains, there were many recipes, mostly iirc stouts and porters and darker beers that called for a little bit of oats in the rest of the steeping grains and I think even Papazaian explained why in his book. Or maybe BYO, but it was for the purpose you mentioned.

BigB said:

Yes, increase the amount of whole leaf hops by 10% to compensate.

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I only had the two one-ounce packets of hops, one for bitters and one for aroma. What I did was steal a bit of the second pack to up the bitters to 110% and just used 90% of the aroma hops. Good right?

I brewed this last night. Had a blast! Everything went well - LOT of steeping . I actually hit the OG of the posted recipe EXACTLY. So far so good. Now... to speed up time.

Yeah, you're fine. Glad your brew session went good. Now when it is done, you should mail me a case so I can properly evaluate it!

BigB said:

Yeah, you're fine. Glad your brew session went good. Now when it is done, you should mail me a case so I can properly evaluate it!

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Of course...

Thanks for your help!