This is going to be another expensive hobby

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skraeling said:
or just starsan and not have to deal with lots of hot glass...
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Just let them sit for 5-10 minutes and it's fine. I've done both and it's easier in the oven plus cheaper. Besides, you're not going to be in the oven with the bottles. Each their own.
 
To remove labels from bottles, dissolve a handful of washing soda (maybe 1/4 to 1/3 cup) in a quart of hot water. Stir, stir, stir, until it dissolves. Pour that in a plastic bucket with about 3 or 4 gallons of cold water. Now just add beer bottles and wine bottles a few at a time as they'll fit or as you accumulate them. After soaking a few hours, typically overnight, most of the labels will just fall off. Even foil labels will scrape off easily. It also loosens any mold and crap dried in the bottoms of the bottles. Give them a quick scrub and a rinse and put them in whatever you're using for storage.
 
z-bob said:
The next step up in my opinion, is making 2 gallon batches of all-grain beer in the Mr Beer fermenter, or in a bucket and use the Mr Beer thing as a secondary (so you don't need to leave headspace). You probably have most of the equipment already.

Edit: for a typical 2 gallons batch beer, you might use 60 ounces of 2 row, 3 ounces of some kind of crystal malt, and a half ounce of hops. Less than $10. Wait, I forgot the yeast. Add another $2 for a half a packet of yeast.
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re-reading the post...I actually like this idea. Keeps me at a highly affordable level and try the AG .
Thanks
 
Soulshine2 said:
re-reading the post...I actually like this idea. Keeps me at a highly affordable level and try the AG .

Thanks
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I've done it. Never had the kits, just the fermenter. My first batch was quite good actually.
 
care to share what you did recipe-wise and what kind of beer you did. I see the Mr Beer kits and fermenters all the time on the cheap. Today saw 2 that were fermenters only for $8 at one thrift store .Most times I can find a full kit(but its at least 3 yrs old)at Goodwill for $5 and all I need is a packet of fresh yeast, Mr Beer wants $15 just for the fermenter.
I'm glad you posted up . Nice to see someone kind of in my same position and gotten more out of it than "clean, empty a can ,heat ,pitch yeast and wait" . I'd like to try the small scale AG and actually create something. While at the thrift store I saw an Igloo 5 gallon water cooler for $12 . I let it go but then had the idea... While most of these kits are for 2 gallon batches. Most "small scale " home brewing recipes are for either 5 gallons or 10 gallons. Why couldn't I take either one of those and split a 5 gallon in half or a 10 gallon into 1/3s and use the 5 gallon cooler for a mash tun? 5 gallon coolers are found pretty readily and cheap, as are food grade 5 gallon buckets. 2 gallons is a taste /12 pack, 3 1/3 gallons is a bit more but not overwhelming if it turns out I don't like what I made. See where I'm going with this? Simple proportions .
 
Recipes scale linearly, for the most part. Take a 5 or 5.5 gallon recipe and multiply everything times 0.35 -- might want to convert to grams first -- and you'll be just under 2 gallons. The boil-off rate does not scale; you might have to add more water so you don't undershoot the volume, but you can add that later.

If you go too small you have to be creative to maintain steady mash temperatures, but there are people here who do 1 gallon all-grain brewing.
 
I use unscented Lysol as a sanitizer. Buck a bottle at the Dollar store. Don't take much and three cold water rinses afterwards and it all good. Still use starsan in the bottle tree for the bottles though. The Lysol is just for the cookers and the fermenters.
 
z-bob said:
Recipes scale linearly, for the most part. Take a 5 or 5.5 gallon recipe and multiply everything times 0.35 -- might want to convert to grams first -- and you'll be just under 2 gallons. The boil-off rate does not scale; you might have to add more water so you don't undershoot the volume, but you can add that later.

If you go too small you have to be creative to maintain steady mash temperatures, but there are people here who do 1 gallon all-grain brewing.
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right , thats about what I thought as well. 1(seems way too small to bother) ,2,5 and 10 gallons seem like normal recipe sizes ,but easy enough to double/triple,leave as is ,cut in half or 1/3's respectively to make a cheap 5 gallon cooler MT work and stay within a limited budget. Understand the water boil off /add rate. Much appreciated.
 
Soulshine2 said:
right , thats about what I thought as well. 1(seems way too small to bother) ,2,5 and 10 gallons seem like normal recipe sizes ,but easy enough to double/triple,leave as is ,cut in half or 1/3's respectively to make a cheap 5 gallon cooler MT work and stay within a limited budget. Understand the water boil off /add rate. Much appreciated.
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I can't say I knew anything at the time or what my gravity was but I split a 5 gallon batch in half. No idea what efficiency, but I didn't have a valve on my 5 gallon mash tun and no filter so I scooped the grains and smashed the liquid out.

Don't do that.

Get a ball valve, nipple and screen. You don't need a $50 bottom, just the inside of a dishwasher hose. most brass is lead free now or spend the $10 for a stainless kit.

If you decide to graduate to 5 gallon batches, your cheap mash tun can then become the hot liquor tank for fly sparge water and the screen can move to the new mash tun.

So easy. Here's the recipe I used: https://beerrecipes.org/Recipe/2656/citra-cascade-ipa.html

This is essentially what these guys do. A little boring but it gets the job done.
https://youtu.be/YDqnFPgpb-0
 
I have invested about a thousand dollars in capital improvements with the result of saving about $10 per batch in operating costs.

People who homebrew:
  • Engineers
  • Survivalists
  • Chefs/Cooks
  • Chemists
  • Biologists
  • Mavericks

People who do NOT homebrew:
  • Accountants
  • Financial Planners
  • Economists
 
Norselord said:
I have invested about a thousand dollars in capital improvements with the result of saving about $10 per batch in operating costs.

People who homebrew:
  • Engineers
  • Survivalists
  • Chefs/Cooks
  • Chemists
  • Biologists
  • Mavericks Hey this is where I fit in.. :D

People who do NOT homebrew:
  • Accountants
  • Financial Planners
  • Economists
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...
 
oylerck said:
Wildcard!
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My mother would be so proud of the lofty heights I have climbed company with...Chemists, Biologist, engineers....who knew .. And to think my high school English teacher said I would not amount to much...:fro:
 
Soulshine2 said:
right , thats about what I thought as well. 1(seems way too small to bother) ,2,5 and 10 gallons seem like normal recipe sizes ,but easy enough to double/triple,leave as is ,cut in half or 1/3's respectively to make a cheap 5 gallon cooler MT work and stay within a limited budget. Understand the water boil off /add rate. Much appreciated.
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You don't even need a 5 gallon cooler. I mash in my boil kettle in a 5 gallon paint bag (I really need to get a finer mesh bag for that.) If I undershoot the temperature I can turn on the heat.

At the end of the mash, lift out the bag and squeeze it, and turn on the fire. Put the bag in a 5 gallon bucket and pour the sparge water over. Let that soak until the kettle is almost simmering, then lift the bag out and squeeze it again. Pour the squeezin's into the kettle and wait for it to come to a boil.

A separate mash tun where you can do a proper Vorlauf (sp?) is probably better, but it's not that much better until you get to large batches where messing with the bag is too heavy and unwieldy.
 
thats interesting since I use the same 5 gallon paint strainer bags when I bag my tobacco seed heads ( to keep purity) Wasn't sure if those were heat or food safe.
 
Norselord said:
I have invested about a thousand dollars in capital improvements with the result of saving about $10 per batch in operating costs.



People who homebrew:

  • Engineers
  • Survivalists
  • Chefs/Cooks
  • Chemists
  • Biologists
  • Mavericks



People who do NOT homebrew:

  • Accountants
  • Financial Planners
  • Economists
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That's awesome.
 
Soulshine2'

Go for quality when possible, you can make beer on a stove top and put it in a bucket. You can build a monster system with all the bells and whistles. I stated with soup pots and coolers and then kept going from there. I think I've said" I'm done my system is complete" at least twice over the years. Then I snap and build out something new. The reality is I enjoy the process of building my system as much as I enjoy making beer. The more I learn the better! My focus has always been about time and temperature control. I cook for a living so it's my experience base. So I am always looking at ways to manage and control the process. The best advise I have for you is to focus on
1) cleanliness and sanitation, a best practice that should serve you well.
2) temperature control for fermentation.
3) consistency or repeatability in your process.
4) learn how mash temps impact sugar extraction for grain. Your degree should be a plus for this one!
5) buy once cry once, but buy used when possible. I have saved a ton buying used.
6) keep reading and learning, attend a home brew club meeting, there are several in Chicago. Your welcome to come see our club in Libertyville. 3rd Thursday of the month at 7 pm. http://www.northurbanbrewingsociety.com
7) keep it simple until you can't!
Rdwhahb

Cheers
 
z-bob said:
I don't disagree with your point, but that MSDS is not for the product he's using. You might as well post the MSDS for industrial floor wax.
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So what is the SDS (MSDS don't exist anymore) for the product he is using.

The point is to read the safety data sheet before deciding to use something for food production to confirm that it won't make you sick...
 
z-bob said:
I don't disagree with your point, but that MSDS is not for the product he's using. You might as well post the MSDS for industrial floor wax.
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So what is the SDS (MSDS don't exist anymore) for the product he is using.

The point is to read the safety data sheet before deciding to use something for food production to confirm that it won't make you sick...
 
Nice looking excavator. :mug:

Stillraining said:
+1...
I cant think of another hobby I have that is a fraction as cheap as this one. I spend 2000 per year just getting to Fly fishing spots. Don't even ask me about the boats expenses...and Skiing? Sheesh! Cant afford it anymore. Wood working?...forget a bout it..not even close. Gym membership? Nope way more expensive...Lets see maybe walking the dogs...dont know about that either, that's an 800.00 dog x 2 plus vet bills, fancy food and lord knows what all else as I quit asking..

Cheapest hobby I have by far...anyone whose not saving money brewing there own over buying it is doing it wrong. An awesome IPA we brew that everyone loves is still only 5.00 per gallon....Cheap! Dirt Cheap!

FWIW... I build my own fly rods and tie my own fly's...still not even in the same league comparison wise. And dont get me started on anything that goes bang.

Gardening might be the closest thing I can come up with....OH Wait....I weed with an excavator...never mind.
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While they do mean the same thing, technically MSDS is no longer used thanks to the Globally Harmonized System(GHS). SDS is the correct terminology.
 
No, not a cheap hobby but if you like DIY you can save some money. I built my mash tun from a 60quart cooler had a 7.5-gallon turkey fryer, bought an 8 gallon 2 weld pot from adventures in home brewing plus a basic homebrewing kit. all told I spent about 600 but the beer is tasty( yes I went overboard or at least that's what my wife thinks)
 
Hobby,s are fun and this one provides us with beer that taste how we want it to. How much we spend is up to us and how much we brew is our choice. I get pleasure out of giving some of it away to coworkers and it provides me with feedback. Now I dont know how good the feedback is, but I dont worry about it. Enjoy your hobby as life is short!:mug:
 
My life long buddy just had his 50th birthday party last night, surprise by his wife. During conversation I told him I was getting into brewing, both he and his wife said that they had a brew kit and I could have it. Neither of them has time to do it ,kids,jobs,etc. So , this morning I go pick it up. I was expecting another typical Mr beer kit. Not so. What he gave me was a 5 gallon glass carboy ,carboy brushes, carboy carrier handle, bung, airlock,sanitizing bucket, auto-siphon ,triple scale hydrometer , thermometer, 2 big cans of LME (light) ,bottle caps and capper. video DVD. AND a home brewing book by Charlie Papazian. Now, I only need a brew kettle (just ordered an 8 gallon with 2 welded bungs)and mash tun(going to find a 10 gallon water cooler and supplies soon. I have Menards rebate bucks to cash in, perfect!). I figure he saved me about $100 ,maybe more. I might have a triple tier rig before long. Did I mention hes been my best friend since first grade?
 
Soulshine2 said:
My life long buddy just had his 50th birthday party last night, surprise by his wife. During conversation I told him I was getting into brewing, both he and his wife said that they had a brew kit and I could have it. Neither of them has time to do it ,kids,jobs,etc. So , this morning I go pick it up. I was expecting another typical Mr beer kit. Not so. What he gave me was a 5 gallon glass carboy , bung, airlock,sanitizing bucket, auto-siphon ,triple scale hydrometer , thermometer, 2 big cans of LME (light) ,bottle caps and capper. video DVD. AND a home brewing book by Charlie Papazian. Now, I only need a brew kettle (just ordered an 8 gallon with 2 welded bungs)and mash tun(going to find a 10 gallon water cooler and supplies soon. I have Menards rebate bucks to cash in, perfect!). I figure he saved me about $100 ,maybe more. I might have a triple tier rig before long. Did I mention hes been my best friend since first grade?
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If you lived closer (you are about 6hrs north of me, STL) I could just sell you my mashtun. No longer use it as I upgraded. Already has a ball valve and false bottom.
 
skraeling said:
If you lived closer (you are about 6hrs north of me, STL) I could just sell you my mashtun. No longer use it as I upgraded. Already has a ball valve and false bottom.
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I hear ya there...I've been all over town today . Would you believe Menards doesn't even have big water coolers . Its seasonal. Not for another month. How much would you want for it ,plus shipping? Might be worth it for me to buy yours (it is a 10 gallon right?) and ship it than chase down parts plus gas .
 
Soulshine2 said:
I hear ya there...I've been all over town today . Would you believe Menards doesn't even have big water coolers . Its seasonal. Not for another month. How much would you want for it ,plus shipping? Might be worth it for me to buy yours (it is a 10 gallon right?) and ship it than chase down parts plus gas .
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Ill have to ask my cobrewer as well if we are ok parting with it. We seriously dont envision ever using it again, but it was a joint effort so ill see what he thinks. As for shipping? no clue what shipping would even cost.

Got an email you can pm me ill shoot you some pictures.

edit: yeah its a 10gal

aih has converted 10g for 160 before shipping. figure less than that after shipping since its used?
 
You can order one online from Walmart and pick it up in the store in just a few days...Zero shipping cost.
 
skraeling said:
If you lived closer (you are about 6hrs north of me, STL) I could just sell you my mashtun. No longer use it as I upgraded. Already has a ball valve and false bottom.
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The LHBS sells a brand new fully rigged 10 gallon mash tun for 165 right off the shelf ,so if that the price ill just buy from them. Appreciate your offer though.
 
mongoose33 said:
despite what many will tell you, don't start homebrewing by brewing all-grain. Take it easy, eliminate as many variables as possible your first time by brewing a simple extract kit. From there you can build your experience and knowledge to confidently try more complex brewing techniques.
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I do not really agree with this, just from my standpoint. Before I started almost 2 years ago I read so many posts (from many areas), watched videos, and browsed a few books.

The first thing I did was look at what I already had on hand. 30 qt turkey fryer, small dorm fridge for temp control, that's about it. I did not buy a kit because my little fridge could not handle 5G bucket/carboy. However a 4G square bucket with an airlock just clears. Then just bought items needed, for cleaning, bottling, etc.

So this left out any chance of brewing 5G kits. And when I started looking at the costs for extract vs all grain, this was easy - all grain. Now which way was I to go, easy BIAB, because it was by far the easiest way to do all grain, paint strainer bag good to go.

Now after almost 2 years I still use same burner, fryer, and fridge. Bought a better bag (wilserbag) :D and use a stainless hop filter and never started with extract.

Now granted the first couple brew sessions were not the best because having to learn the system and procedures, but if I had to do it over again I still would go straight to BIAB.
 
dstockwell said:
I do not really agree with this, just from my standpoint. Before I started almost 2 years ago I read so many posts (from many areas), watched videos, and browsed a few books.

The first thing I did was look at what I already had on hand. 30 qt turkey fryer, small dorm fridge for temp control, that's about it. I did not buy a kit because my little fridge could not handle 5G bucket/carboy. However a 4G square bucket with an airlock just clears. Then just bought items needed, for cleaning, bottling, etc.

So this left out any chance of brewing 5G kits. And when I started looking at the costs for extract vs all grain, this was easy - all grain. Now which way was I to go, easy BIAB, because it was by far the easiest way to do all grain, paint strainer bag good to go.

Now after almost 2 years I still use same burner, fryer, and fridge. Bought a better bag (wilserbag) :D and use a stainless hop filter and never started with extract.

Now granted the first couple brew sessions were not the best because having to learn the system and procedures, but if I had to do it over again I still would go straight to BIAB.
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I think a lot of us, maybe everyone, would do things differently if we could start over.

Problem is, now we KNOW what to do, and we tend to overlook the uncertainty of the process. It's not that someone can't start at all-grain--it's just that it's less likely to be successful given the large increase in variables one has to control.

Think of all the things that have to go right--getting the crush right, getting mash temp right, hopefully the WATER is right, is the PH correct? What about sparging? Going to do it or not or going no-sparge? How much? What temp strike water should you start with? How many gallons? How much will the grain absorb? Is the crush ok or should I include more grain? Do you have too many adjuncts such that you need to add rice hulls to avoid a stuck mash? Can you adequately maintain that mash temp over the period of the mash? How will you know if you have enough insulation around the mash tun to do that? Should I stir? How many times? And then what--cover it again? What's strike water? What does sparge mean? Do I even need to sparge? What are first runnings? Should I start heating them right away or wait until I have drained everything? Should I throw the hops in right away or wait until it starts boiling?

And there's more than that. My point isn't that it can't be done, but anyone who's a newbie has a powerfully steep learning curve. I had the good fortune to have watched someone do an extract brew before I did it, so I had a head start. Still, there was a lot to learn just from the boil forward.

In the end, this is the fundamental problem: if the beer doesn't turn out right, what do you blame? The more variables you enter into the equation at the start, the more possibilities--and how do you narrow that down? Mastering half the process, from the boil forward, before starting on the other half of the process, just strikes me as the most likely way to be successful.

So, for me, this is a version of Occam's Razor, what I'll call Occam's Brewing Razor: instead of the answer requiring the fewest assumptions is more likely to be correct, the newbie brew that has the fewest variables will likely be the best one.

Of course, people can do what they want. That's the beauty of it--you can brew what you want, how you want, and if you want to start out all-grain, you can.

Brew on.

BTW, thank you for the civil disagreement. Too bad we can't have more of that in politics. :)
 
Frankly, I hate those 10 gallon round coolers for mashing. They're deep and there's no room to stir, to bring the bottom of the mash up. 40 quarts is also a bit small for larger beers or oversized 5 gallon batches. I much prefer my 52 qt rectangular cooler. I got it from Sears for $23, around this time of the year IIRC, since no-one else was selling them. No false bottom, just a homemade cpvc manifold for <$10 in parts. Batch sparge, easy peasy.
 
Haha i got a kick out of reading this thread. You sound like a neat guy soulshine and i am looking forward to where this hobby takes you.

Its like a ball of string....how long do you want it. Here are some pics from this forum of great men who have built cool and interesting things at likely great expense (i never asked). I started with a 12 dollar stainless steel 4 gallon pot for two and a half gallon batches and upgraded to a tamale pot that was $20 for 5 gallon batches. I buy Grain in bulk and I've been known to brew beers for $0.25 each. I've come to the conclusion that some people seem much more interested in building something then Brewing. We are talking about home brew not professional equipment. That being said some people want professional equipment in their house. Some people want to make their own professional equipment. Like you I have lots of other hobbies and things I do and I keep my equipment and time and expense to a minimum. People will get very touchy if you point out that Great beer could be made in a $12 pot. I asked the reason once and the answer which I can't remember was good, so I decided not to bark up that tree. But keep in mind the emptiness inside the pot makes it valuable. Those kits don't make any sense to me but I'm sure they have great things in them that people use. I could give you a bare minimum starting list of equipment and prices but I think you've already kind of started to find your way. What you think you need, where you will ultimately windup as a brewer and how you want to Brew will be revealed to you over time. Step one is to start making beer no matter the method. Sounds like you've ordered a pot and you've got a fermenter so you're on your way. My interests are Brewing quickly and cheaply. I would gladly help you with either of those if you wish.

As a final note. With the grainfather coming down in price, I think to about $700, it would be worth considering as many are picking them up. Best wishes to you and glad you're here

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