The 2016 NHC - Results/Speculation Thread

TobyG · Mar 18, 2016

First round results for Indy are posted, and I didn't see a thread yet, so I figured I'd make one.

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/competitions/national-homebrew-competition/winners/

Hommel · Mar 18, 2016

at first glance i thought something was screwed up since it just looked like the 2008 style guide categories. embarrassed to say i'm just realizing that they didn't use the 2015 style guideline as is but used a nhc modified version which seems to basically be the 2008 guidelines with the 2015 sub categories shoe horned in. not sure how i missed that since i read all the documentation top to bottom when it was first released. is it just me or is that kinda silly? why come up with a new style guide and then not use it?

mbbransc · Mar 18, 2016

Wow, much earlier than I was anticipating. Nashville still isn't for (2) more weeks.

TobyG · Mar 18, 2016

I was a little surprised about the categories initially as well. I think NHC was targeting a certain number of medal categories first and foremost, so they split up and rearranged categories to be practically identical to the 2008 guidelines to get there.

The timing is roughly where they were last year (taking a week or two to process after the judging).

FarmerTed · Mar 18, 2016

Wow, there are a lot of lager entries. And there's only one Brewing Network member.

Qhrumphf · Mar 18, 2016

Hommel said:
at first glance i thought something was screwed up since it just looked like the 2008 style guide categories. embarrassed to say i'm just realizing that they didn't use the 2015 style guideline as is but used a nhc modified version which seems to basically be the 2008 guidelines with the 2015 sub categories shoe horned in. not sure how i missed that since i read all the documentation top to bottom when it was first released. is it just me or is that kinda silly? why come up with a new style guide and then not use it?

I'm figuring that this is a "transition year" in a sense. Most judges I judge with are treating it as such, especially with specialty beers, and giving people a pass if they don't necessarily enter something where they're supposed to.

I suppose NHC is trying to make that transition smooth.

I'll be judging in Philly, and also entered in Philly. That's still a couple weeks off.

BeardedBrews · Mar 18, 2016

St Louis, NYC, and Seattle are all judging this weekend, so we should have some activity by the end of next week. I will be very interested to watch how the BN numbers do by region.

Braufessor · Mar 18, 2016

Hommel said:
at first glance i thought something was screwed up since it just looked like the 2008 style guide categories. embarrassed to say i'm just realizing that they didn't use the 2015 style guideline as is but used a nhc modified version which seems to basically be the 2008 guidelines with the 2015 sub categories shoe horned in. not sure how i missed that since i read all the documentation top to bottom when it was first released. is it just me or is that kinda silly? why come up with a new style guide and then not use it?

Well, I guess one consideration is the fact that the AHA/NHC does not come up with style guidelines - the BJCP does. Two separate organizations.

Any competition can use those guidelines any way they see fit. I think the AHA distributed the new categories/styles in ways that did two things:
1.) Put similar beers in similar categories.
2.) spread out the styles that have traditionally been entered in numbers that were way out of proportion to the rest...... IPA, APA, Stout etc.

*Mine are at St.Louis this weekend - hopefully a couple can make it on to the next round.

NervousDad · Mar 18, 2016

I was surprised that they mixed English and IIPA in one category. It's pretty hard to judge an English IPA after judging a few IIPAs

Qhrumphf · Mar 18, 2016

NervousDad said:
I was surprised that they mixed English and IIPA in one category. It's pretty hard to judge an English IPA after judging a few IIPAs

A good set of judges will order them accordingly.

AnOldUR · Mar 18, 2016

Braufessor said:
2.) spread out the styles that have traditionally been entered in numbers that were way out of proportion to the rest...... IPA, APA, Stout etc..

Except for the cluster f.. category 26. 53 entries in Indianapolis, while a handful of others had 10 or less. How'd they not see that coming?

Hoping for a better distribution in St Louis . . .

mwilcox · Mar 18, 2016

In fairness only one beer category had fewer than 13. And dark lager is always among the lowest. 32 pilsners is a surprise.

I did suggest an alternative breakdown of styles that would have put EIPA with the bitters, given American Wild their own and still kept 26 beer cats, but I don't make the rules so whatev.

As it is now, no way I'd enter that monstrosity of a Specialty Category.

Braufessor · Mar 18, 2016

AnOldUR said:
Except for the cluster f.. category 26. 53 entries in Indianapolis, while a handful of others had 10 or less. How'd they not see that coming?

Hoping for a better distribution in St Louis . . .

I am hoping there are 600 specialty entries in St. Louis

pjj2ba · Mar 18, 2016

I've been absent from the forum for a while - new job. I skipped entering last year, but got serious for this year. Two of five are headed to the finals. A light lager and a light hybrid beer. Looking forward to Baltimore! We finally have a local club and we will be pouring - I'm re-brewing so we will have these at our booth

AnOldUR · Mar 19, 2016

mwilcox said:
In fairness only one beer category had fewer than 13. And dark lager is always among the lowest. 32 pilsners is a surprise.

I did suggest an alternative breakdown of styles that would have put EIPA with the bitters, given American Wild their own and still kept 26 beer cats, but I don't make the rules so whatev.

As it is now, no way I'd enter that monstrosity of a Specialty Category.

In the five cider and mead categories there was a total of 44 entries (8, 10, 8, 10, 10). Maybe combine them into one non-beer category to make room for breaking up some of the crowded beer categories. Why should those guys have a better shot at a metal than beer brewers?

(edit to say: not complaining, just an attempt at constructive suggestion for next year)

NervousDad said:
I was surprised that they mixed English and IIPA in one category. It's pretty hard to judge an English IPA after judging a few IIPAs

At Indianapolis they had 46 beers in that category. I would think that they would put all the English IPA's at the same table so that there'd be no mix tasting until the mini-BOS. But I don't know?

AnOldUR · Mar 19, 2016

Braufessor said:
I am hoping there are 600 specialty entries in St. Louis

So, you're in St Louis too? I got shut out of my local sites, but was lucky, happy to be given a second chance to ship there.

And yeah, I foolishly put a beer into cat 26.

Congrats @pjj2b!

Braufessor · Mar 19, 2016

AnOldUR said:
So, you're in St Louis too? I got shut out of my local sites, but was lucky, happy to be given a second chance to ship there.

And yeah, I foolishly put a beer into cat 26.

Congrats @pjj2b!

Yeah - I have sent to the St. Louis/KC regional the last 3 years I think. I have always been happy with the way they ran their other big competitions during the year. They seem to get good judges, provide good feedback, prompt results, etc.
Hopefully we both get some beers moving on. :mug:

mwilcox · Mar 19, 2016

If 53 entries is a cluster f...we should create one big category of 46? C'mon.

AnOldUR · Mar 19, 2016

mwilcox said:
If 53 entries is a cluster f...we should create one big category of 46? C'mon.

Yeah . . . the two wrongs don't make a right thing. How about one cider and one mead? It would still free up three categories to help even out the distribution.

And to stay on topic, I'm speculating that mead and cider makers have better odds of making it to the finals and winning there than beer brewers do.

Braufessor · Mar 19, 2016

I guess the one thing I would say about the "over entry" aspect of some categories is this-

Some things are "over entered" because of inexperience and some things are "under entered" because of over experience.

For instance, every Tom, Dick and Harry brews an IPA, a Stout and a "Specialty" beer. It is not uncommon to see people talking about "I am entering my first competition ever, and it is the NHC." For the most part, they are not entering a Mead, Cider or Lager..... they have an IPA , a beer they "put something else in"(specialty) and something else.

Most people that brew (and enter) lagers, ciders and meads have been brewing for a while.

I would guess that while some of these categories do have fewer entries overall, they might tend to have better entries..... because they tend to come from more experienced brewers.

So, even though some categories might attract 40 entries...... they might attract 20-30 bad to mediocre entries. Where another category might attract 10-15 entires, all of which are solid or very good.

AnOldUR · Mar 20, 2016

Braufessor said:
So, even though some categories might attract 40 entries...... they might attract 20-30 bad to mediocre entries. Where another category might attract 10-15 entires, all of which are solid or very good.

Interesting theory. I'd like to hear from experienced judges if they find this to be true today.

Compared to five years ago, I think with the better ingredients, equipment and knowledge we have today, there's a lower percent of poor quality beers being entered across the board.

I'd guess that if there were 5 mead entries and 50 IPA's, you could get one bad to mediocre mead and 10 bad to mediocre IPA's. The rest being good to outstanding by BJCP standards (over 20). There's a good chance I'm wrong, so hearing from someone judging would help.

When you throw palate fatgue and inexperienced judges into the mix, it can become a crap shoot getting a beer through in a big category. A 3 out of 8 chance will never compare to 3 out of 53.

edit to say: Again, not complaining. It is what it is. I enjoy the competition and suspense. Just rambling while waiting for results.

Braufessor · Mar 20, 2016

AnOldUR said:
Interesting theory. I'd like to hear from experienced judges if they find this to be true today.

Compared to five years ago, I think with the better ingredients, equipment and knowledge we have today, there's a lower percent of poor quality beers being entered across the board.

I'd guess that if there were 5 mead entries and 50 IPA's, you could get one bad to mediocre mead and 10 bad to mediocre IPA's. The rest being good to outstanding by BJCP standards (over 20). There's a good chance I'm wrong, so hearing from someone judging would help.

When you throw palate fatgue and inexperienced judges into the mix, it can become a crap shoot getting a beer through in a big category. 3 out of 8 will never compare to 3 out of 53.

Agreed - I don't think every cider, mead or Lager is great and almost all of the IPA's are bad or anything. I could just see where you might get differing percentages in some categories.

I absolutely agree in regard to the "crap shoot" of a big category. It is specifically why I almost never enter IPA's or specialty for the most part, and tended to enter more brown ales and amber ales than I did APA's. Just too easy to get lost in the shuffle of beers. You can have a good pale ale that simply gets buried under a bunch of over-hopped beers that should be IPA's. Or, simply bad placement in the line up...... If your beer follows up 2 or 3 Hop bombs, or beers that aren't great - it can throw off how the judges taste and perceive your beer. I would think "specialty" could be all over the place with the kinds of things brewers throw into beer. I would never want to judge that category.

Not that there is not some of that in other categories too, but I think it is increased in areas like IPA and specialty.

When I saw the new NHC category arrangement, I thought it would really help quite a bit. But, looks like people are still bound and determined to enter as many IPA's as they can and "throw this in my beer"

Be interesting to see how the other regions come in for numbers. It does look like (in many cases) the new format did split entries out with some success into other categories.

NervousDad · Mar 20, 2016

I don't mind the huge categories in the first round. Either way you'll still need to get past 36 in the second round anyway, unless they didn't have 3 winners in each category. I was kicking myself for entering 4 American ale categories this year, but I did well and it's what I like to brew. I wouldn't feel like I won if I entered a smaller category just to win.

Braufessor · Mar 20, 2016

NervousDad said:
it's what I like to brew.

i think this is the key. I brew what I (and friends/family) like to drink. Some of those lend themselves to competitions, some don't. I like brewing/drinking very traditional lagers, scottish ales, english ales, porters, etc. They are basically all brewed to the guidelines and as a result, they work well for entering comps.

I also love brewing and drinking over-hopped amber ales, and low abv. IPA's. I brew the the "dreaded" hazy, east coast IPA's - because I like drinking them. Even though I love these kinds of beers - I know they would get smoked in a competition. However, I am not going to brew versions of a beer simply to enter it in a competition. I want to drink it first and foremost. Not a huge fan of cider, mead, etc.... that is why I will probably never brew one.

AnOldUR · Mar 20, 2016

NervousDad said:
I was kicking myself for entering 4 American ale categories this year, but I did well and it's what I like to brew.

In agreement with what both you and Braufessor are saying, but this is what piqued my interest. What do you have going through?

NervousDad · Mar 20, 2016

AnOldUR said:
In agreement with what both you and Braufessor are saying, but this is what piqued my interest. What do you have going through?

I have a IIPA, Amber Ale, Brown Ale. I'll submit them, but I know it would be tough to get a medal in those categories.

Braufessor · Mar 20, 2016

NervousDad said:
I have a IIPA, Amber Ale, Brown Ale. I'll submit them, but I know it would be tough to get a medal in those categories.

Wow - great job. Putting beers in those 3 categories through is impressive. You are definitely doing something very right if you can advance in all 3 of those. :mug:

NervousDad · Mar 20, 2016

Braufessor said:
Wow - great job. Putting beers in those 3 categories through is impressive. You are definitely doing something very right if you can advance in all 3 of those.

But I agree those categories are some what of a crap shoot. So many different flavors. Some offensive to others some not. My IIPA tasted like diesel fuel, but some people are okay with that while some would kick it out of the Mini BOS. I would say I got lucky with the judges I had.

AnOldUR · Mar 20, 2016

NervousDad said:
I would say I got lucky with the judges I had.

Three out of four is way past luck. Great job!

But if we're calling it luck, I'd be plenty happy with a third of your luck.

Next question. Why do I keep clicking on the NHC results page when I know there's no way St Louis could be posted there?

NervousDad · Mar 20, 2016

AnOldUR said:
Next question. Why do I keep clicking on the NHC results page when I know there's no way St Louis could be posted there?

I was hitting the refresh button every hour all last week. I finally gave up on Friday and figured they would't show up until Monday. I saw some random post of someone congratulating their fellow club member and I saw my name in the picture

The 2016 NHC - Results/Speculation Thread

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Reverend of Beer

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Reverend of Beer

Supporting Member

Stay Rude, Stay Rebel, Stay SHARP

Well-Known Member

Supporting Member

BFM

Stay Rude, Stay Rebel, Stay SHARP

fer-men-TAY-shuhn

Well-Known Member

Supporting Member

Look under the recliner

fer-men-TAY-shuhn

fer-men-TAY-shuhn

Supporting Member

Well-Known Member

fer-men-TAY-shuhn

Supporting Member

fer-men-TAY-shuhn

Supporting Member

BFM

Supporting Member

fer-men-TAY-shuhn

BFM

Supporting Member

BFM

fer-men-TAY-shuhn

BFM

Similar threads