Indoor BIAB

Sipping on one of these now. Tweaked the recipe from Edwort slightly to allow for my systems profile. Once again Beersmith is incredibly useful allowing me to reduce the grain bill by a few ounces. Hit my numbers almost spot on. Target OG of 1.051 and hit 1.052

ABV on this one came to 5.4% so a little outside of style guidelines.

I'm always trying to perceive the flavors associated with various ingredients or styles and am no doubt subject to a certain level of suggestibility, but I do feel I can perceive a subtle banana taste in the background. Clove I'm not so sure on. A veritable novice when it comes to describing flavors.

Here are a few views of the fermentation and the final product on this one.

On foot of some minimal and better homework on my part I will no longer be using the buffer in my mash. Thanks to prior posters for advising me of this.

https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/water-knowledge

Quote from this webpage which is pretty clear.

SPECIAL NOTE: Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is indicated by its manufacturer to "lock in your mash and kettle water at a pH of 5.2 regardless of the starting pH of your water". Evidence by homebrewers indicates that this product does not produce a mash pH in the preferred room-temperature range of 5.3 to 5.5. That evidence shows this product does produce some pH moderation in waters with high Residual Alkalinity. However, the mash pH tends to center around 5.8 (room-temperature measurement). While 5.8 pH is acceptable, it is at the upper end of the desirable mashing range. The evidence also shows that in waters with low Residual Alkalinity, this product shows little effect on mash pH. Since Five Star 5.2 Stabilizer is a compound with high sodium content, its use will elevate the sodium concentration in the brewing water. High sodium content can be undesirable from a taste standpoint in beer. Proper alkalinity control of mashing and sparging water may produce more acceptable brewing results for most brewers than with the use of 5.2 Stabilizer. To add emphasis to difficulty in using this product, the following conversation posted on Homebrew Talk between noted brewing water expert, AJ DeLange and the chemist from Five Star Chemical regarding their 5.2 Stabilizer product. "Tipped a few last night with the chemist who designed this product and was able to confirm that it is indeed a mix of phosphates (mono and di basic) that accounts for the presence of the malt phosphate. This is something I have long suspected and am pleased to have finally confirmed. Good manners prevented me from pressing him on it's efficacy and suitability relative to the statement on the label. But his comments on it were basically that most brewers shouldn't use it/need it and that it was put together for a particular brewery that had variable source water and no desire to make any effort to track that variability."

My latest brew with my setup. "Common Room ESB" by KingBrian1 here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f64/common-room-esb-83878/

That looks nice and a lot clearer than the previous pictures you posted. I's stop by for a taste if you weren't 1500 miles away.

RM-MN said:

That looks nice and a lot clearer than the previous pictures you posted. I's stop by for a taste if you weren't 1500 miles away.

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Door is open RM-MN should you find yourself in Dallas, let me know. Another ferocious winter afternoon in Dallas as you can see. T-shirt, cold beer and a swing set to play on

Gavin C said:

My latest brew with my setup. "Common Room ESB" by KingBrian1 here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f64/common-room-esb-83878/

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Beautiful looking ESB there, Gavin! Although I have a nice in kitchen burner setup, I'd rather have the weather you had yesterday than mine. It took the lady and I 70 minutes to travel a typical 15 minute trip. It was the first time I ever thought that I may not make it home, the roads were so iced up.

Murphy2012 said:

Beautiful looking ESB there, Gavin! Although I have a nice in kitchen burner setup, I'd rather have the weather you had yesterday than mine. It took the lady and I 70 minutes to travel a typical 15 minute trip. It was the first time I ever thought that I may not make it home, the roads were so iced up.

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Thanks Murph..

Turned out OK. Got the ingredients for this one again. Want to improve it next time.

pricelessbrewing said:

Same recipe? Otherwise hard to compare, especially if larger grain bill for the 72%.
Could you list your steps for the mash out (beginning with dough in) and the non mash out (dough in on)?

If everything's identical, it should be within 2% or so efficiency, which is within normal variation from brew to brew. Make sure if you don't mash out that you stir the mash thoroughly before pulling the grain bag, which might be what was missing from the non mashout?

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Just wanted to post a further update to the mash-out debate. I redid the same recipe as before (KingBrian1's Common Room ESB) yesterday.

Without mashout in a previous brew my OG for this recipe was 1.050. Yesterday with mashout it was 1.055. With volumes into the FV at 5.5gallons for both. The only change in the grainbills was 4oz of Crystal 120L changed to 150L for yesterday's batch. I don't think that would have played a significant role. Perhaps I'm wrong.

The only difference between the two brews' grain bills was that substitution of 120L to 150L crystal. (4oz) and the mash-out as previously described.

Again not a huge data set and hardly compelling evidence to support or refute a practice. Just wanted to share

Gavin C said:

Just wanted to post a further update to the mash-out debate. I redid the same recipe as before (KingBrian1's Common Room ESB) yesterday.

Without mashout in a previous brew my OG for this recipe was 1.050. Yesterday with mashout it was 1.055. With volumes into the FV at 5.5gallons for both. The only change in the grainbills was 4oz of Crystal 120L changed to 150L for yesterday's batch. I don't think that would have played a significant role. Perhaps I'm wrong.

The only difference between the two brews' grain bills was that substitution of 120L to 150L crystal. (4oz) and the mash-out as previously described.

Again not a huge data set and hardly compelling evidence to support or refute a practice. Just wanted to share

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Interesting. So that's a variation of about 6% efficiency difference between the two brews, from 67% to 73% assuming exact same grain bills and volume into fermenter.

Please describe your mashout procedure vs non mashout procedure. In particular do you stir before pulling the bag, but not the other. Is the mashout time included in your mashing time, or no? If not, try non mashout next time but stir after the usual time period then let it sit a little longer to account for the additional time.

pricelessbrewing said:

Interesting. So that's a variation of about 6% efficiency difference between the two brews, from 67% to 73% assuming exact same grain bills and volume into fermenter.

Please describe your mashout procedure vs non mashout procedure. In particular do you stir before pulling the bag, but not the other. Is the mashout time included in your mashing time, or no? If not, try non mashout next time but stir after the usual time period then let it sit a little longer to account for the additional time.

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Hey Priceless. Apologies for the tardiness of my reply.

My BH efficiencies for the two batches were 75 and 70% with and without mash-out respectively. ( the grain bill was reduced from the author's recipe to allow for my anticipated efficiency of 75%)

The mashes were as follows
With mash out
Dough in stirring constantly
Sacc rest at 154 for 60 mins
Raise temp to 170 over 9 mins while stirring constantly
Rest at 170 for 10 mins
Stir the mash and pull the bag draining in the usual manner

Without mash out
Dough in stirring constantly
Sacc rest at 154 for 60 mins
Stir the mash and pull the bag draining in the usual manner

There is certainly an extra time in the mash out during which starches may be being converted. My preboil volume was 0.2 gallons less with no mash out. I squeezed in the usual way. Perhaps the grain was holding on to more wort at a cooler temp and this could be the bigger issue.

I certainly don't want to get hung up on eking out a few measly efficiency points for a lot of extra work; grain is cheap, but reproducibility is important and I seem to be able to achieve this more predictably with a mash out step. Would appreciate any tips or pointers. Thanks again

With my latest brew yeaterday (Yooper's Oatmeal stout) I decided to try a couple of things I had not previously done.

1: I used Bru'n water to calculate water adjustments on foot of a Ward Labs report I recently got
2: CaCO3 was added to raise the Ca (this was a bad idea as I have since discovered)
3: Lactic acid was added to the mash to lower the pH (I do not have a pH meter yet so was a bit scared to take this blind and probably ill-advised approach. Amount based on Bru'n water calcs)
4: I used reflectix to insulate the mash and intermittently stirred (3 times) during the 60 minute mash at my target of 155F

The result was a mash efficiency of a hair over 90%. Fortunately my ensuing BH eficiency and FG is still well within the style guidelines (1.056) and should still result in a beer reasonably close to the author's intent.

The Reflectix was very effective at keeping heat in the mash even with stirring no temperature drop was noted. I used my ugly orange jacket to insulate the lid as I haven't got round to adding the Reflectix yet

I harvested a slurry from an ESB the day prior to the brew. I didn't rinse it at all. Just collected 6 mason jars (1/2 pint) of slurry and pitched 2.

Up until now I have rinsed my yeast prior to harvesting. This was easier.

Loving this pale ale from Yooper. Highly recommend it if you are looking for a good hoppy APA.

Thanks Yoop!

My first brew using a pH meter was this morning.Hach Pro+. This is one of the pH meters @AJDelange has recommended in various posts in the brew science forum.

In addition to the meter I purchased the following

From hach.com
Buffer solution pH 7.00 in pillow form
Buffer solution pH 4.01 in pillow form

From amazon.com
Storage solution
Cleaning solution
Small borosilicate beakers in which to mix

From thermoworks.com
A green Thermapen on sale for Paddy's Day

pH Meter and associates


Being new to the meter and not thoroughly doing my homework I was unsure of the steps involved but assume prerequisites are an accurate water report; I got a Ward Labs report a few weeks ago, and a water chemistry tool; I used Bru'n Water.

The pH meter was easily calibrated using the two solutions.

Calibrating the meter with pH 4.01 solution

A mash sample was taken 5 minutes into the mash and read 5.5. This was inline with what Bru'n water had predicted.

Using the software tool I calculated a required addition of lactic acid targeting a pH of 5.3-5.4 (seems to be a decent target for a blonde ale but I am a novice so am open to corrections)and checked the mash 5 mins after its addition. The pH was a hair under 5.3 so some work is needed on my part.

Adjusted mash pH


Perhaps the timing of my tests is off. I was keen to take an early reading as this was to be a 40 minute mash and I figured if I waited too long conversion may well have taken place before the addition of the acid. Based on some recent posts by @RM-MN it very well may have.

My mash efficiency was my highest to date at a hair over 92% and ensuing BH efficiency of 83% (rounding to nearest point)

I had chosen a light beer, Biermuncher's Centenial Blonde so as to allow for a possible higher efficiency than my estimated 75%. The result will still hopefully be a tasty easy drinking blonde ale with an OG just a little higher than planned at 1.045

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

It can take 20 minutes to reach equilibrium regarding pH. The point isn't really so you know when to make on-the-fly adjustments, but that you have a real data point for your system, water, and malt for adjusting the acid on the next batch. AJDelange even talks about making a mini-mash for that very reason.

I usually pull 3 samples: from the beginning, middle, and end of the mash.

orangehero said:

It can take 20 minutes to reach equilibrium regarding pH. The point isn't really so you know when to make on-the-fly adjustments, but that you have a real data point for your system, water, and malt for adjusting the acid on the next batch. AJDelange even talks about making a mini-mash for that very reason.

I usually pull 3 samples: from the beginning, middle, and end of the mash.

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Absolutely right. Definitely more applicable to future batches. For my first batch with the meter my process was somewhat lacking I fear. I am doing a similar brew with pilsner malt next so will hopefully be able to apply the data from this batch to it. The blonde ale will be ready to taste in a few days. I'm interested to see what the results are from a taste point of view. (I am no expert however so that will be very unreliable subjective data).

Brewed Yooper's oatmeal stout. I would recommend this to anyone looking for a stout recipe to brew.

Unchanged Grain Bill. 80%eff brought the OG a little higher than planned.
Minor alterations to the hops to get the desired IBU's

OG 1.056
FG 1.017

WYeast 1028 slurry used

Creamy Oatmeal Stout

Is the cooling rack stainless or just chrome?

Peruvian802 said:

Is the cooling rack stainless or just chrome?

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Chrome. It's held up very well though. No rust yet. Ive been meaning to upgrade and just got this one today. Will be using it in my brew this weekend. I will update the thread once I get it.

Jealous you get to brew all the time.

@Biermuncher 's Centennial Blonde. My version with a couple of minor tweaks.
Reduced grain bill
Adjusted hop schedule to target the same IBU's
S-05 instead of Notty
Shortened Mash

OG 1.045 FG 1.010

Tasty and Simple. Nearly 1 million views can't be wrong.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1429996645.138522.jpg

A Munich Helles (recipe with some tweaks courtesy of @brulosopher ) Recipe Here

Used WLP029 fermented at near lager temperatures with a passive rise once 50% attenuation had been reached (SG at 1.023)

OG 1.048 FG 1.010

This was a very crisp beer with a big fat foamy head. Only wish I had given it more time to lager. Brewing it again soon with a lager yeast to compare the results. WLP833

A 30 minute sacch rest at 150F with a 5 minute mash-out at 168F

On a bit of a German beer kick at the moment.
Brewed a Kolsch with a step mash today. Quite a bit of work during the mash but fun.

Next up is the Helles again, then an Alt, Dunkel and an Oktoberfest/Marzen. Looking to try my hand at some traditional techniques on some less forgiving styles.

Munich Helles OG 1.048 Fg 1.010. Thanks for the recipe @Brulosopher

Sorry if this is of topic for the trend of this thread, but I have a couple of questions. I teach home brewing, and have been looking at biab as a less equipment intensive means if getting people into the all grain side of the hobby.

Any idea what btu or stove is? I can't see mine boiling 7 gallons in any kind of realistic time frame.

The rest is to do with your chiller. Do you have problems with break material in the chiller? How do you clean it? Have you considered or tried a whirlpool without the chiller, before introducing the chiller to the loop, to prevent break material from getting in there? Do you whirlpool then let it sit, or go straight to chilling while whirlpooling?

Again, sorry if this is somewhat off topic.

jwjeep said:

Sorry if this is of topic for the trend of this thread, but I have a couple of questions. I teach home brewing, and have been looking at biab as a less equipment intensive means if getting people into the all grain side of the hobby.

Any idea what btu or stove is? I can't see mine boiling 7 gallons in any kind of realistic time frame.

The rest is to do with your chiller. Do you have problems with break material in the chiller? How do you clean it? Have you considered or tried a whirlpool without the chiller, before introducing the chiller to the loop, to prevent break material from getting in there? Do you whirlpool then let it sit, or go straight to chilling while whirlpooling?

Again, sorry if this is somewhat off topic.

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Not off topic at all.

I'm not sure on the exact model of my NG stove but a similar one on the manufacturer's website has a central burner with 18,000BTU. I'm guessing mine is similar.

A rolling boil of 7.5 gallons is no problem

When cooling with my plate chiller I usually run the wort at full throttle and recirculate with a whirlpool of sorts. I do this to augment the cooling and make no effort to capture cold break. It all ends up in the fermentor.

Thankfully I have not had any issues with blockages in my plate chiller. Hop particulate is more of a concern. I retain this with a hop spider.It seems to work very well.


The hot break is a different beast. It is much firmer and can be scraped off the surface of the wort at the start of the boil if desired. I did just this on yesterday's brew. I have no idea as to the merits of doing this.

Here are some images from yesterday which will hopefully help illustrate my process.

Hot Break

Hot Break removed



Cold Break

Nice post Gavin, I'm envious of your attention to detail.

Additionally I'm also envious of your stove haha, not your average residential equipment by any means. Fwiw I occasionally stovetop brew 15.5 gal on commercial 6 burner stove....world of difference.

wilserbrewer said:

Nice post Gavin, I'm envious of your attention to detail.

Additionally I'm also envious of your stove haha, not your average residential equipment by any means. Fwiw I occasionally stovetop brew 15.5 gal on commercial 6 burner stove....world of difference.

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Thanks Wilser. I do enjoy the process. I am fortunate in having such a good stove. It's still a lot slower at heating than a banjo burner or something similar.

Would love to see a pic of that mammoth stove-top brewing next time you get to do it. Something like those massive noisy burners you see under woks in asian restaurants perhaps?

Gavin C said:

A Munich Helles (recipe with some tweaks courtesy of @brulosopher ) Recipe Here

Used WLP029 fermented at near lager temperatures with a passive rise once 50% attenuation had been reached (SG at 1.023)

OG 1.048 FG 1.010

This was a very crisp beer with a big fat foamy head. Only wish I had given it more time to lager. Brewing it again soon with a lager yeast to compare the results. WLP833

A 30 minute sacch rest at 150F with a 5 minute mash-out at 168F

On a bit of a German beer kick at the moment.
Brewed a Kolsch with a step mash today. Quite a bit of work during the mash but fun.

Next up is the Helles again, then an Alt, Dunkel and an Oktoberfest/Marzen. Looking to try my hand at some traditional techniques on some less forgiving styles.

Munich Helles OG 1.048 Fg 1.010. Thanks for the recipe @Brulosopher

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What changes did you make to the recipe. I was looking at brewing that this weekend?

epratt said:

What changes did you make to the recipe. I was looking at brewing that this weekend?

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I adjusted the grain bill to acount for my batch size of 5.5 gallons and my projected efficiency at 80%

I also subbed some acid malt for some pilsner malt to get the mash pH lowered.

Hallertauer Hops were used with the same IBU's targeted.

All very minor things to account for my setup, hops I had and desired water and mash profile.

A very tasty refreshing beer. Making it again soon.

My second stab at this great beer recipe courtesy of @Yooper

A few insignificant minor changes to get the hopping to target and a little acid malt (<3%) subbed in for some Maris Otter to lower the mash pH

OG 1.055 FG 1.012 42 IBU Color 9

What a great picture! That looks good enough to drink, and the lacing looks awesome.

Thanks for showing the photo- I love it!

That looks delicious. Which recipe is that? Yooper just has so many :rockin:

pricelessbrewing said:

That looks delicious. Which recipe is that? Yooper just has so many :rockin:

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It is Da Yooper's House Pale Ale

It's a great recipe. I think it turned out pretty well both times.

i was able to get 7+ gallons boiling on my stove. it was a pain when it came time to pull the grains out. I had to get on a chair. but it worked alot better than i though it would. my stove is gas and fairly new. I will use a turkey fryer next time though. the lower height should help some.

jaydlaw said:

i was able to get 7+ gallons boiling on my stove. it was a pain when it came time to pull the grains out. I had to get on a chair. but it worked alot better than i though it would. my stove is gas and fairly new. I will use a turkey fryer next time though. the lower height should help some.

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Why not mash with your kettle on the floor and then pull the bag out? That's what I used to do, and just pick up the kettle and put it on the stove top when the mash is done.

TexasWine said:

Why not mash with your kettle on the floor and then pull the bag out? That's what I used to do, and just pick up the kettle and put it on the stove top when the mash is done.

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True, I don't know why I didn't think to do that. Brain fart I guess.

jaydlaw said:

i was able to get 7+ gallons boiling on my stove. it was a pain when it came time to pull the grains out. I had to get on a chair. but it worked alot better than i though it would. my stove is gas and fairly new. I will use a turkey fryer next time though. the lower height should help some.

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Are you using anything to support the bag after the lifting. I use a big collander to hold the heavy wet bag prior to squeezing it. I don't have to work too hard that way.

Squeezed Bag in the collander atop the pot.

I have an idea for the next time. I don't have a colander big enough but u use the steamer insert and I have a broil pan that I can sit the sterner atop of

I've been brewing a few German beers of late and decided to try to tackle some more complex and traditional mashing techniques with my simple BIAB setup.

My Mash Schedule for this beer


I'm doing this, not to target higher efficiency but to see if the processes are feasible with my setup and to see if they impart any notable benefits to my beers.

Here is my iteration of
Tiber's Perfect Kolsch with some minor tweaks. Acid malt added as needed and altered grain and hop bill to account for my systems' parameters. Thanks to @Tiber_Brew for the helpful pointers prior to brewing. It was very much appreciated and enormously helpful.

OG1.046 FG1.010 IBU27 SRM3.8 ABV~4.7% Crisp and Refreshing

I fermented this in the low 60's with a ramp toward the end to optimize attenuation in search of that crisp dry finish I was after.

Fermentation Schedule



I will be entering this beer in a local competition or two in the next few weeks. I have never had a Kolsch so have no yardstick with which to compare. I sure do enjoy drinking this though. I would highly recommend this brew. Thanks again Tiber.

So... any notable differences from a simple infusion mash that you can pick out?

Nice looking brew.

I'm sure it would make for a hefty brew day (or back to back brew days), but I would be interested in seeing a comparison between the step schedule and a single infusion mash side by side.
Unfortunately I don't have the equipment to do this really, so I'm just another one of those guys who suggests an experiment without being able to contribute...