Sub 1.030 beers

Broham1 said:

The recipe is not mine. I got it here:
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2012/01/vienna-malt-session-ipa-recipe.html?m=1

Worth a read, he goes through some great tips on brewing session beers.


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One of the tips from that webpage is:
Maintaining Balance:
1. For a hoppy beer reduce the IBUs proportionally to the expected residual extract (I think this is a better way to think about balance than the classic BU:GU ratio).

Can somebody explain this?

I've been wanting to make a "small IPA" for a while, and have been loving reading through this thread!! Working up my recipe for a "half batch" to test this one out. Any thoughts on this? I've kept the Crystal malts relatively high, and am hoping that I can achieve a session IPA-like brew that is has good body/mouthfeel and plenty of hops.

Thanks for your input!

Rich

Recipe: School's in Session IPA
Brewer: Rich Greenberg
Asst Brewer:
Style: Mild
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 4.72 gal
Post Boil Volume: 3.22 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 2.60 gal
Bottling Volume: 1.85 gal
Estimated OG: 1.031 SG
Estimated Color: 13.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 31.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 83.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 30.8 %
12.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 23.1 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3 15.4 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4 15.4 %
8.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5 15.4 %
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 6 31.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49 Yeast 9 -
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Day Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 3 lbs 4.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 19.22 qt of water at 160.6 F 158.0 F 45 min

dzlater said:

One of the tips from that webpage is:
Maintaining Balance:
1. For a hoppy beer reduce the IBUs proportionally to the expected residual extract (I think this is a better way to think about balance than the classic BU:GU ratio).

Can somebody explain this?

Click to expand...

I'm not certain what Oldsock means there. We could ask him. I think the Ray Daniel's bitterness units to gravity units ratio is an excellent rule of thumb. I don't recognize 'residual extract.' Maybe FG? unless it means post boil (i.e. hopstand, whirlpool) bittering contribution from hops. But this isn't a failing of the BU:GU rule. It's a failure of the IBU equations in properly estimating post boil bittering contribution.

rgreenberg2000 said:

I've been wanting to make a "small IPA" for a while, and have been loving reading through this thread!! Working up my recipe for a "half batch" to test this one out. Any thoughts on this? I've kept the Crystal malts relatively high, and am hoping that I can achieve a session IPA-like brew that is has good body/mouthfeel and plenty of hops.

Thanks for your input!

Click to expand...

Rich, that's really is a ton of caramel (30+%) and victory(15%). It will be very, very sweet and that much victory might end up with quite a grainy bitterness to it. Personally, if cut them each to 5% and let'er rip. And increase the 2row and maris otter to make up the difference.

dzlater said:

One of the tips from that webpage is:
Maintaining Balance:
1. For a hoppy beer reduce the IBUs proportionally to the expected residual extract (I think this is a better way to think about balance than the classic BU:GU ratio).

Can somebody explain this?

Click to expand...

There is a theoretical ratio called BU:GU, Bittering Units to gravity units. Essentially it is the IBU compared to the starting gravity, which in this case is represented by the last two (or in rare, high gravity cases, three) numbers of a specific gravity reading. The higher the ratio, the more perceived bitterness a beer will have.

For example, a mild with a bitterness of 17 and an OG of 1.034 would have a BU:GU ratio of .5 (17/34).

An imperial IPA on the other hand may have a bitterness of say 150 (not really possible, but whatever) and an OG of 1.075. This beer's BU:GU ratio would therefore be 2.

Obviously these are extreme examples, but it is an easy way to show the math.

What Old Sock is suggesting is to lower the bitterness in low alcohol hop bombs in order to make a smoother, more *gasp* drinkable beer. Instead of a BU:GU of, say, 1 or 1.3 for an IPA, lower this to perhaps .6 for a session IPA.

This is mostly achieved by reducing early boil hopping (60 and 45 minutes, for example) and loading up on late additions and dry hops. All the hop flavor and aroma, with much less bitterness, since the lessened malt bill of the session beer cannot stand up to the aggressive bittering charges of a traditional IPA.

Hope that clears it up.

urbanmyth said:

There is a theoretical ratio called BU:GU, Bittering Units to gravity units. Essentially it is the IBU compared to the starting gravity, which in this case is represented by the last two (or in rare, high gravity cases, three) numbers of a specific gravity reading. The higher the ratio, the more perceived bitterness a beer will have.

For example, a mild with a bitterness of 17 and an OG of 1.034 would have a BU:GU ratio of .5 (17/34).

An imperial IPA on the other hand may have a bitterness of say 150 (not really possible, but whatever) and an OG of 1.075. This beer's BU:GU ratio would therefore be 2.

Obviously these are extreme examples, but it is an easy way to show the math.

What Old Sock is suggesting is to lower the bitterness in low alcohol hop bombs in order to make a smoother, more *gasp* drinkable beer. Instead of a BU:GU of, say, 1 or 1.3 for an IPA, lower this to perhaps .6 for a session IPA.

This is mostly achieved by reducing early boil hopping (60 and 45 minutes, for example) and loading up on late additions and dry hops. All the hop flavor and aroma, with much less bitterness, since the lessened malt bill of the session beer cannot stand up to the aggressive bittering charges of a traditional IPA.

Hope that clears it up.

Click to expand...

I'd actually think that means something completely different. Rather than adjusting the BU:GU down, that would theoretically stay nearly the same, and the IBUs would drop with the gravity.

Rather, what I think he's suggesting to focus the IBUs based on the expected final gravity moreso than the original gravity, since that final gravity is going to tell more about the residual sweetness of the beer than the original gravity will.

Now, I haven't read that particular part of his site, so I don't know that for sure, but that's what I'm figuring.

Qhrumphf said:

I'd actually think that means something completely different. Rather than adjusting the BU:GU down, that would theoretically stay nearly the same, and the IBUs would drop with the gravity.

Rather, what I think he's suggesting to focus the IBUs based on the expected final gravity moreso than the original gravity, since that final gravity is going to tell more about the residual sweetness of the beer than the original gravity will.

Now, I haven't read that particular part of his site, so I don't know that for sure, but that's what I'm figuring.

Click to expand...

You are right. I am too tired to try to give lectures on beer calculations.

Weezy,

Thanks for the quick feedback. Yikes! Yep, a bit out of bounds on the Crystal there, thanks for the catch. Perhaps too many home-brews while reading HBT and coming up with recipes!! Here's my revision:

1.5 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
1.25 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
3.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
3.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM)
1.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)
1.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 45.0 min
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min
1.0 pkg English Ale (White Labs #WLP002)
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop

I've kept the Crystal higher than the % in my normal IPA, as I'm afraid of the beer turning out too "thin". I also added a touch of Chocolate to up the SRM a bit. I think this one is close enough to try out when I get my new BIAB gear from Wilser. I'm open to any additional thoughts though.

Will post up when I get this one going (probably not brewing for at least a couple of weeks.)

It looks tasty! let us know how it goes.

Here is a two gallon batch I made on Friday. Tasted a hydro sample today kind of early but tasted great, malty and hoppy. Still has a few gravity points to finish, can't wait till it is finished.


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looks yummy but what is with the name "1945 mild"?

gbx said:

looks yummy but what is with the name "1945 mild"?

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Don't have the book open in front of me, but my guess is it came from Ron Pattinson. He lists a lot of historical recipes that way.

Edit: looking at the recipe I doubt it did. Never mind.

It is from The Brooklyn Brewshop new book. They did get it from Pattinson then I tweaked it with the rye and the hops. I just kept the name.


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Got a little IPA in the fermenter at the moment.
Followed the grain bill from "Tiny the Elder" but hopped with Amarillo and Cascade.
60% Munich
30% Marris Otter
10% Carapils
http://www.popmedium.com/2012/10/tiny-the-elder-low-gravity-ipa-homebrew-recipe/

Mashed at about 72C and OG was 1.033.
Pitched S04 which took it down to FG 1.019 in 3 days (42% attenuation). Seems to taste OK with plenty of body. Just dry hopped, will give it a few days then cold crash and bottle.

Pkrd said:

Got a little IPA in the fermenter at the moment.
Followed the grain bill from "Tiny the Elder" but hopped with Amarillo and Cascade.
60% Munich
30% Marris Otter
10% Carapils
http://www.popmedium.com/2012/10/tiny-the-elder-low-gravity-ipa-homebrew-recipe/

Mashed at about 72C and OG was 1.033.
Pitched S04 which took it down to FG 1.019 in 3 days (42% attenuation). Seems to taste OK with plenty of body. Just dry hopped, will give it a few days then cold crash and bottle.

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Well, this was strange. Fermentation stopped for a few days and then kicked off again, albeit very slowly. Finally got down to 1.007 after 32 days. Racked to secondary and let it sit for a week and then dry hopped again for a few days and then cold crashed. Bottled tonight. Sample tasted OK. Well over 3% which was not at all what I was shooting for.

Lots of good info here. Like so many that responded, I brew a ton of 1.030 to 1.034 beers, mostly English (Milds and Ordinary/Bitters) and Cream Ales/Dark Cream Ales.

It's nice to be able to have a few and still be able to walk to the fridge for another!

Tony

I just kegged another 1.025 trappist table beer.

What's your dark cream ale recipe?

Poppy's Dark Cream Ale #3

3 Gallon All grain

Small, easy to make, stove top all grain batch.

1.032 OG
1.007 FG
17 IBU
3.2%
1.25# per quart mash
Mash @ 152 for 60 minutes
1/3 tap water, 2/3 distilled water, 1 gram calcium chloride

2.5# 6 row
1# Flaked Corn
1 oz. Briess Caramel 120L (sometimes I use 60L)
1 oz. Briess Chocolate 350L

1/2 oz. Hallertau @ 60 minutes
1/2 oz. Saaz @ 10 minutes

Briess Chocolate does not have the roasted flavor that roasted barley does, it is more of a chocolate or coffee but in this recipe, with only 1 ounce, you can't really pick it out. I bounce from Caramel 120L up to Caramel 60L and in between, again, it is such a small amount, it contributes but isn't a strong flavor. I use Hallertau and Saaz hops in this, makes a real nice spicy flavor contribution.

This is similar to the Pre Pro Kentucky Common of the Louisville area with the exception of the hop selection, KC probably used Cluster hops. I actually patterned this recipe after the Dark Cream Ale made in the 1930's and 1940's in Cincinnati by the Schoenling Brewing Company (yes, the ones famed for Little Kings Cream Ale which was introduced in the 1950's). I make this with various yeasts. US05 does real well, Wyeast WY1010 is also real nice (yes, a wheat beer yeast). I have also used WLP080 with nice results. Next batch I will try WY2112 California Common. I think 2112 may be a real nice balance. Schoenling always used a lager yeast on their Cream Ales although it was fermented "warm" (in the 60's F) then their Cream Ales were "lagered" for 6 weeks. Up until the Schoenling family sold out in the 1990's, they still made their Little Kings that way. Former employees stated Schoenling received fresh yeast every 3 months. One lager yeast for their Schoenling Lager and another lager yeast (different strain) for their Cream Ales which they internally called an ale yeast for easy differentiation between the two. Seems like Schoenling was doing the same basic thing with their various Cream Ales as was going on out west with California Common beers.

Tony

That looks real nice, Blueflint! I appreciate the restraint on the caramel and chocolate, to get you a hint of color and flavor without sweetening up the cream ale, really. I can see the attraction to lagering that as well. I can almost taste it.

I might have to run one of these soon as lager season is here. C90 and Crystal hops sound tasty with that as well, but the hallertau/saaz noble/floral combo probably makes more sense.

I do 2.5-3 gallon recipes mostly. 2.5 typically and 3 if they're real small beers.

do you weigh your salts or do you measure, like 1/8 tsp, 1/4 tsp, etc.?

I weigh my c.c. out, I have a small digital scale for ammo reloading - weighing out powder, works perfectly for the c.c. and small amounts of hops too.

I really enjoy making the smaller beers, in the 3% range. It is a challenge to get flavor and balance in them and they are thirst quenching too.

Tony

If you're not adverse to using a kit, Brewers Best has a Scottish Ale that has a great malt flavor, my friends liked that one a lot. OG 1.034, FG 1.010.

Just popping in here to thank all the members that have been passing along recipes!

With the new year, I'm doing a lot more focusing on small/table beers (3.5ABV or less), and really like the examples.

I've got a mild in the keg conditioning out, and a standard bitter that attenuated higher than I wanted (~4abv). Going to rework one of my favorite creamale recipes for 3.5 and pitch on a Yorkshire cake, and then get a saison and Belgian in the works for table beers to offset my huge ABV monsters.

Looking forward to a new year of brewing!

:rockin:

sumbrewindude said:

Just popping in here to thank all the members that have been passing along recipes!

With the new year, I'm doing a lot more focusing on small/table beers (3.5ABV or less), and really like the examples.

I've got a mild in the keg conditioning out, and a standard bitter that attenuated higher than I wanted (~4abv). Going to rework one of my favorite creamale recipes for 3.5 and pitch on a Yorkshire cake, and then get a saison and Belgian in the works for table beers to offset my huge ABV monsters.

Looking forward to a new year of brewing!

:rockin:

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I've yet to do a repitch of West Yorkshire that has turned out decent. Amazing first pitch but I've tried top cropping and pitching on the cake and its always sucked - been very dry and tart without the giant malty kick to the nuts the first pitch provides.

I brewed Jamil's 60/- from brewing classic styles for christmas with US-05 and it was a hit. A couple weeks of cold conditioning in the keg with gelatin and it was beautifully clear with nice fine foam. Its definitely been the only session beer I've liked brewed with dry yeast.

Hmmm. That's a little concerning about loosing the malt kick, that's one of my favorite attributes of the yeast. The standard was done with a topcrop of the original mild, so I'll get an experience with it. I was planning on saving the slurry to repitch later, but maybe I'll just get a pouch of Northwest Ale and play with that for the cream ale - I wanted to try that strain out anyway.

For what it's worth, i repitch 1469 West Yorkshire all the time and think it's even better the 2nd and 3rd generation. No reduction in malt character that I've noticed.

That makes me feel better.

I may do it anyway - the original was done with 1099, so I thought Yorkshire would be an interesting change.

I resuscitate West York from frozen 10 ml slants. No problems.

I posted my trappist table beer recipe here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/abbots-ease-1-025-trappist-table-beer-510778/

It's intentionally very simple and very small.

I saw that recipe, Weezy - it's one of the ones I'm looking to do, though I might end up around 3.5. I also made a similiar version that went with Special B and Brun Fonce in case I have issues getting D90.

BTW - that dark English Wheat on Roeselare sounds amazing....

:rockin:

Qhrumphf said:

For what it's worth, i repitch 1469 West Yorkshire all the time and think it's even better the 2nd and 3rd generation. No reduction in malt character that I've noticed.

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How are you harvesting it? I'd love to be able to use it but I've bought a pack of 1469 on 3 different occasions and each time the attenuation kept increasing. I always get at least 5 beers out of a pack of 1318 london 3, top cropping whenever is convenient (sometimes high krausen, sometimes skipping whats left a week after fermentation completed) and its always worked great with no measurable differences in FG and no perceivable differences in flavour or flocculation. I've gone as high as 8 generations once and only quit because I was bored. When I harvested West Yorkshire off the bottom, or high krausen or skimmed after active fermentation it seemed to go from 70% attenuation, to 75, to 80+. And it lost its super floculation and became dusty requiring fining.

sumbrewindude said:

BTW - that dark English Wheat on Roeselare sounds amazing....

:rockin:

Click to expand...

I'll let you know next Xmas! Hehe

4 gallon batch dumped hot straight to a corney, jam the whole thing into a snow bank, pitch the yeast after it cooled to 65. I won't touch it until September for the first taste test.

3.5# golden promise
3# wheat
0.5# Simpsons Crystal Dark
0.4# Bairds Carastan
0.3# Chocolate Wheat

8g U.S. Goldings

OG 1.052, FG 1.010?

I'm intentionally heavy.on the adjuncts to give the bugs dextrins to work on and still leave the beer with the adjunct character.

Wish me luck...yet another keg tied up! Gah!

What's Brun Fonce???

Weezy -

Brun Fonce is the granulated sugar that's somewhere between D45 and the 5SRM candi. Here's a link to NB's description:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brun-fonce-soft-candi-sugar-1-lb.html

I got a pack for a beer I made a while ago and have been sitting on it as I was planning to use the extra for bottle carbing only to go kegging. I'm not going back to bottling any time soon.

NICE on the recipe - I'll be curious to see how that one turns out! I really need to get my sours going, it'll be this time next year before I know it.

OT I know, but do you like fermenting in cornies? I'm thinking about getting some 5gal ones for fermenters and getting rid of my plastic, I don't know if a 5G pinlock could fit in my ferm fridge with a blowoff hooked up, I've only got 23" from the bottom shelf to the top. I do 3gal batches myself....