Warm Fermented Lager Thread

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dkeller12 said:
@Mothman - Glad this turned out as good as mine did. Enjoy!!!
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I wanted to update... the Munich Dunkel I made is the first time (that I remember) I've ever drank a beer of the style. I enjoyed the first bottle, but really had nothing to compare it to.

Last night I tried another bottle, this one was carbed better, though I think one final week conditioning the remaining bottles will get them where I want them... anyway, I'd also purchased a 4-pack of a commercial craft dunkel, and I compared the two beers last night.

The two are very, very similar. The commercial example I had was a little more roasty/nutty, while mine is a little bit of a 'cleaner' flavour... but both are comparable, and my first ever lager, fermented warm at that, compares very favorably to the commercial one.
 
Mothman said:
I wanted to update... the Munich Dunkel I made is the first time (that I remember) I've ever drank a beer of the style. I enjoyed the first bottle, but really had nothing to compare it to.

Last night I tried another bottle, this one was carbed better, though I think one final week conditioning the remaining bottles will get them where I want them... anyway, I'd also purchased a 4-pack of a commercial craft dunkel, and I compared the two beers last night.

The two are very, very similar. The commercial example I had was a little more roasty/nutty, while mine is a little bit of a 'cleaner' flavour... but both are comparable, and my first ever lager, fermented warm at that, compares very favorably to the commercial one.
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What was ur recipe
 
@dkeller12 pointed me to this recipe : https://byo.com/article/munich-dunkel-the-original-brown-lager-of-bavaria/

I scaled it to my batch size.

I used carafa iii special as that's what I could find (first time using carafa special and I'm a fan).

I didn't do a decoction, nor did I do a step mash, just mashed as normal at 153F.

Boiled for ~ 90 minutes.

I used 34/70 yeast, a couple days at high 50's F, then to low to mid 60's for a week, then final week and a half at high 60's.

The only thing that didn't go to plan is my color is a bit darker than intended, and my fg was 1.017/8, was supposed to be 1.013. The beer tastes great though.
 
I've pretty much settled on using W-34/70 fermented at 65F. I'm trying to decide if it's beneficial to ramp up a few degrees (68-70F) for a diacetyl rest. Not sure it's necessary when warm fermenting. I'm interested in other peoples fermentation schedule when warm fermenting W-34/70.
 
jahlinux said:
I've pretty much settled on using W-34/70 fermented at 65F. I'm trying to decide if it's beneficial to ramp up a few degrees (68-70F) for a diacetyl rest. Not sure it's necessary when warm fermenting. I'm interested in other peoples fermentation schedule when warm fermenting W-34/70.
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You can see my 34/70 schedule a few posts above your question. It worked well for me.
 
Can't wait to get my bag of pilsner malt from the lhbs! Then I can go nuts with some favorites like Czech pilsners, German steam beers and a plethora of lagers that will be fermented above 60°... Heck, I can do another Westvleteren 12 clone!
 
Looking to brew Jen Talley’s schwarzbier, if I decide to use the 34/70 should I stick with my ambient basement temps mid 60’s or try swamp bath to go cooler? Also has anyone in this thread tried pitching two packs to lower the amount of growth/esters?

Edit: I do 6 gallon batches
 
Mothman said:
Thanks Applescrap, for the advice.

Curious... in terms of these beers, what are people generally finding is the sweet spot for aging after packaging?

Are we talking several weeks? Months?
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I’ve come to understand that for German breweries at least 4 weeks is minimum, and up to 8 is not unusual for what they call ”brewery-conditioning”.
 
catdaddy66 said:
Can't wait to get my bag of pilsner malt from the lhbs! Then I can go nuts with some favorites like Czech pilsners, German steam beers and a plethora of lagers that will be fermented above 60°... Heck, I can do another Westvleteren 12 clone!
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You are aware that a German steam beer is not a lager but an ale? Classic Hefeweizen yeast is used, just without any wheat in the grist. Google Dampfbier for more info.
 
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MakeDankBeer said:
My helles with wlp830 has a bit of a burnt rubber/sulfur off flavor the last pilsner(wlp840) I did also had this same flavor but after a week in the keg it was gone. Anyone else experience this ? I thought it was from over dry hopping it but after reading another thread , BJCP says it is due to yeast. https://www.bjcp.org/docs/OffFlavorFlash.pdf
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Just in case anyone looks into these in the future, I believe that the burnt rubber off flavor is from the beer sitting in the beer line. As I detected in a NEIPA if I don't dump the first little bit of the pour. I believe I will re try the 830 at some point.
 
balrog said:
Dropping back in here after a hiatus. My first 34/70 was awful, ferm at 60°F threw major peach esters. Did not try again.

Is the current consensus with warm lagers to do 34/70 in upper 60's, or go with MJ54 at ??°F?



@JohnSand - what recipe/fermschedule?
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10# pilsner, 8oz munich, 6oz melanoidin. M54 yeast
The ferm fridge was set to 66, it started there, but I forgot to plug in the heat(!), so it dropped to 62 while fermenting. I did notice and plug in the heat belt. I tend to leave everything ferment for three weeks. The 34/70 part seems to have cleaned up too.
 
Brewed a helles copied from the lager recipe section and threw some 34/70 on it, it started out 70degrees , i was worried about it getting to hot, accidently chilled it too much, it was fermenting in the mid 50s , I warmed it back up to 68, a tad bit worried this one will not come out due to the drastic temp swings.
 
Most of my unsatisfactory beers had temp swings. As long as there were acceptable fusel levels and no infection, many of them still made decent beers, especially after some doctoring. Wait and see.
 
Has anyone succesfully brewed a clean lager using Nottingham yeast? kind of looking brewing a british lager and seems there is no other british lager yeast strain.
 
duelerx said:
Has anyone succesfully brewed a clean lager using Nottingham yeast? kind of looking brewing a british lager and seems there is no other british lager yeast strain.
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A few years back I did a cream ale with notty that was super clean. Not officially a lager but pretty darn close, fermented at 60. It was the cream of three crops recipe well known on here.
 
So I have a Shiner Bock clone going now that I have been wanting to try with MJ 54. Two days after pitch and we have gone from 1.046 to 1.014. I really wasn't expecting that kind of speed but it looks like I may be able to keg this one in under a week.
 
duelerx said:
Has anyone succesfully brewed a clean lager using Nottingham yeast? kind of looking brewing a british lager and seems there is no other british lager yeast strain.
Click to expand...

That's because British lager is no more a thing than German pizza. Yes, lots of lager is made in Britain, but it's not of Britain. Britain joined in the lager craze of the late 19th century, as documented by Boak and Bailey in their book Gambrinus Waltz, but it was killed stone dead by WWI and lager didn't really return to the UK until after WWII. By which time it was all being made by imported European yeasts, there's no indigenous British lager yeasts.

There's some amazing artisan lager being made in the UK these days, but if you want the typical British lager experience, use one of the common yeasts like 34/70 or S-189, brew a grist with 20% adjunct like maltose syrup, and chemicals like propylene glycol alginate for head retention, at ~15°C to ~8% ABV, bitter with the cheapest alpha extract you can find to 15-20 IBU in the final beer, "lager" for 5 days and then dilute 50:50 with water.

That's British lager.

Edit: Serve so cold that the punters can't taste anything. If it's really disgusting, chill it more and sell it as "Extra Cold" as though that's a good thing.
 
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Northern_Brewer said:
That's because British lager is no more a thing than German pizza. Yes, lots of lager is made in Britain, but it's not of Britain. Britain joined in the lager craze of the late 19th century, as documented by Boak and Bailey in their book Gambrinus Waltz, but it was killed stone dead by WWI and lager didn't really return to the UK until after WWII. By which time it was all being made by imported European yeasts, there's no indigenous British lager yeasts.

There's some amazing artisan lager being made in the UK these days, but if you want the typical British lager experience, use one of the common yeasts like 34/70 or S-189, brew a grist with 20% adjunct like maltose syrup, and chemicals like propylene glycol alginate for head retention, at ~15°C to ~8% ABV, bitter with the cheapest alpha extract you can find to 15-20 IBU in the final beer, "lager" for 5 days and then dilute 50:50 with water.

That's British lager.
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Yummy.
 
Why do you think the likes of Carling and Fosters spend so much on advertising?

I think you'd enjoy Gambrinus Waltz though, it's only £2 for the ebook and it's a not-well-known period when Britain really embraced imported German culture.
 
Northern_Brewer said:
That's because British lager is no more a thing than German pizza. Yes, lots of lager is made in Britain, but it's not of Britain. Britain joined in the lager craze of the late 19th century, as documented by Boak and Bailey in their book Gambrinus Waltz, but it was killed stone dead by WWI and lager didn't really return to the UK until after WWII. By which time it was all being made by imported European yeasts, there's no indigenous British lager yeasts.

There's some amazing artisan lager being made in the UK these days, but if you want the typical British lager experience, use one of the common yeasts like 34/70 or S-189, brew a grist with 20% adjunct like maltose syrup, and chemicals like propylene glycol alginate for head retention, at ~15°C to ~8% ABV, bitter with the cheapest alpha extract you can find to 15-20 IBU in the final beer, "lager" for 5 days and then dilute 50:50 with water.

That's British lager.
Click to expand...

I had no idea it was made like that but now it makes perfect sense. I had almost given up drinking lager until i started brewing my own.
 
The above is pretty typical of most big-name cooking lagers, although the details will vary.

If you've access to BBC iPlayer, there's 8 days left on Greg Wallace's recent documentary about the Carling factory in Burton. It glosses over most of the...less purist...aspects like adjuncts and high-gravity brewing, but is worth a look if only for the packaging department, which handles a million cans of Carling a day (and 700k of other products).
 
It's interesting to see that those are brewed with a high gravity approach. I know this technique from some German wheat beers. They use it to enhance ester production, so quite the opposite of what you would expect from a lager. I guess the right price and marketing and you can get away with everything.

I've been living in the UK now for over four years and never had a Carling. Not going to change this if it can be avoided :D
 
Northern_Brewer said:
That's because British lager is no more a thing than German pizza. Yes, lots of lager is made in Britain, but it's not of Britain. Britain joined in the lager craze of the late 19th century, as documented by Boak and Bailey in their book Gambrinus Waltz, but it was killed stone dead by WWI and lager didn't really return to the UK until after WWII. By which time it was all being made by imported European yeasts, there's no indigenous British lager yeasts.

There's some amazing artisan lager being made in the UK these days, but if you want the typical British lager experience, use one of the common yeasts like 34/70 or S-189, brew a grist with 20% adjunct like maltose syrup, and chemicals like propylene glycol alginate for head retention, at ~15°C to ~8% ABV, bitter with the cheapest alpha extract you can find to 15-20 IBU in the final beer, "lager" for 5 days and then dilute 50:50 with water.

That's British lager.

Edit: Serve so cold that the punters can't taste anything. If it's really disgusting, chill it more and sell it as "Extra Cold" as though that's a good thing.
Click to expand...

Really interesting!, i read the series of British Lagers of Ron Pattinson and even brewed a British Dark Lager once but using WY2206 instead of Danish Lager. Really tasty.
 
So the MJ45 tore through this Shiner Bock clone. Krausen added some variance in the tilt readings in the middle but this was basically a full fermentation in 2 days.
Screenshot_20190408-160332_Sheets.jpg
I think I'll call it Jack's Shiner.
 
Brewing an experimental lager warm fermented with 34/70. I was going to DH with 2 oz of Saaz, but now am thinking of whirlpooling them. Thoughts?
 
Recently brewed a Pilsner with 34/70 fermented at 65F. It was a 10 gal batch that I kegged a month ago. I did not use gelatin like I usually do. The first keg did not clear up until just before it kicked at about the 3 week point. I just tapped the other keg yesterday and it is very cloudy. It's been sitting in the keezer for a month. I have probably ran at least a half gallon out of the keg, still not clearing up. I'm assuming this keg won't clear up until it's about empty as well. Without gelatin it seems these warm fermented lagers just will not clear up. Anyone else experience this?

LCK5kzoxSVytc1P5PBsM7A.jpg
 
Yes, on every one. I think 34/70 needs a long time to floc. But I also think a short boil could be my culprit as well. And or biab haze from squeezing. But I have theorized many times that warm fermented lagers brew amazing, but there is no rushing the lagering process. I heard a beer Smith Podcast with Chris White and he said he lets lager sit in Fridge until they're clear. Just throwing out a guess these are best around month 2 with gelatin. I say that but I wonder if taste even changes.
 
I've only brewed warm fermented lagers. Does 34/70 need the same time to clear up if fermented at traditional temps?
 

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