So you want to use a commercial keg for fermenting huh?

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Jaybird

Jaybird

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WELL I DID TOO! The only problem is, I didn't want to buy or build an expensive keg washer AND you know me, I didn't want a bunch of single parts. I wanted a 1 part does all kind of solution. I am currently using this system in my brewery and I am LOVE, LOVE, LOVING IT!

We did a short video on how I am using it to do the clean cycles. I am sure you all will have your own take on how it can be done and will figure out how it best works for you.

What I did is do a full clean circulation cycle using BPW for about 15 min. Only used about 2 gallons of water/PBW. In that time, I was using my boil kettle to get rinse water to about 170* Rinsed 2X then used Star San and did that for about 5-7 min. I was using enough water and Star San so racking cane wasn't picking up foam. Worked killer!

When I went to transfer wort in, I went in the racking cane and it pushed the foam trapped in the keg out the ball valve. :D


Here is the killer thing about this. It's all just parts we build and sell in house so if there are mods you want.... We can do it for sure.

We were having an issue with construction noise in the back ground when shooting video, so I did my first voice over video...No making fun of me..LOL :D

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0rcFJasxE4&feature=em-share_video_user[/ame]

Cheers
Jay
 
Is the racking cane able to slide up and down, so the tip is above the fermenting wort, and can be used as a blowoff?
 
Brentk14 said:
Is the racking cane able to slide up and down, so the tip is above the fermenting wort, and can be used as a blowoff?
Click to expand...

You bet. I use the out feed of the TEE myself and put a 000 solid stopper (included) in teh racking cane. But yes it can slide for sure.

Cheers
Jay
 
Thanks guys! I know you all will find other uses for it but I cannot get over how cool the system came together.

I told you guys to stock up on kegs..LOL

Cheers
Jay
 
You have this on your site yet? Still trying to track down some kegs....
 
Alright Jay, you got my attention. I have been waiting for something like this to make it easier to do larger batches under pressure. I currently use multiple cornies chained together to do this. I have a Sanke but, even though I have been assured you could clean them as easily, have held off using it. Some questions:

* Can you show in a video what modifications you made to the Sanke itself, what tools you need, etc. in order to convert the keg to a fermenter. Pretty sure I understand the basics of this, but it might help others and if there are specific tips it might help me too.

* Can you show in a video the fermentation in a Sanke, and what parts you need to do that? Things like a spunding valve, pressure gauge, and anything else you might want to outfit the Sanke with in order to make this work well. Perhaps put all that stuff in a kit along with this great cleaning tool?

* One thing I struggle with is getting something into the keg once it is under pressure without the risk of oxygen exposure. For instance, I usually dry hop in the keg. Any tips or gadgets that help with this issue?

Thanks for the great product!
Cheers!!
 
stonebrewer said:
Alright Jay, you got my attention. I have been waiting for something like this to make it easier to do larger batches under pressure. I currently use multiple cornies chained together to do this
Click to expand...

StoneBrewer,

How are you getting the corny lid to seal well? I just started a 5 gallon batch in a 10 gallon corny and can't get the lid to seal enough to build up any pressure with my spunding valve...



Jay, I too would be interested in info on connecting a spunding valve to the Sanke keg. I think with the TC clamp that would alleviate the problem I'm having with sealing the corny keg lid. Any idea how much pressure that fitting can withstand?
 
stonebrewer said:
Alright Jay, you got my attention. I have been waiting for something like this to make it easier to do larger batches under pressure. I currently use multiple cornies chained together to do this. I have a Sanke but, even though I have been assured you could clean them as easily, have held off using it. Some questions:

* Can you show in a video what modifications you made to the Sanke itself, what tools you need, etc. in order to convert the keg to a fermenter. Pretty sure I understand the basics of this, but it might help others and if there are specific tips it might help me too.

* Can you show in a video the fermentation in a Sanke, and what parts you need to do that? Things like a spunding valve, pressure gauge, and anything else you might want to outfit the Sanke with in order to make this work well. Perhaps put all that stuff in a kit along with this great cleaning tool?

* One thing I struggle with is getting something into the keg once it is under pressure without the risk of oxygen exposure. For instance, I usually dry hop in the keg. Any tips or gadgets that help with this issue?

Thanks for the great product!
Cheers!!
Click to expand...


There are many Sanke keg spear types out there. Here is a video of how to relieve the pressure and remove the screw in spear type.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDqJ_0fMxq4[/ame]

There are others that use a spring clip and you just need to start with the pressure removal first then remove the little spring then the spear just comes out and your done. Rinse and then clean as shown.

As for a spunding valve. I don't see the need at this stage of the game. Right now we are working on Cleaning, rinsing, sanatizinng, fermenting AND transferring into and out of the keg. I am using a 000 solid stopper (included) IN the racking cane and then attacking a blow off to the TEE out feed side at the ball valve. A barbed fitting can be used or using the Cam Lock and a piece of tubing into a blow off bucket is what I am using.

I will have several other videos to post. I am going on vacation for the next few days and when I return I will be transferring my Tart Cherry Beer from primary to a keg using the kit and I will absolutely video that for you guys.

As far as Dry hopping in a keg with this kit. You wont be under pressure at this point just under C02 blanket as all the air will have been removed during fermentation. So removal of the kit is as easy as removing the clamp and tossing in hops just like you do yeast. May I suggest ONLY pellet hops. Then you can use the racking cane to transfer out of the keg into your finishing kegs for carbonating and serving.

Let me know if I covered all the questions. Good stuff by the way! Thanks for the interest and the questions.

Cheers
Jay
 
Physicsbrewer said:
StoneBrewer,

How are you getting the corny lid to seal well? I just started a 5 gallon batch in a 10 gallon corny and can't get the lid to seal enough to build up any pressure with my spunding valve...



Jay, I too would be interested in info on connecting a spunding valve to the Sanke keg. I think with the TC clamp that would alleviate the problem I'm having with sealing the corny keg lid. Any idea how much pressure that fitting can withstand?
Click to expand...

Physicsbrewer: I have rarely had an issue with my cornies sealing. When I have had issues, it is usually due to a mismatched lid. I have about 20 cornies, and I sometimes have mixed up the lids when I am cleaning a batch of them. In general, what I have always done is pretty simple. I use keg lube after cleaning the largest o-ring and completely cover it in lube...not thick, just spread it and run your pinched fingers around it several times to coat the entire surface. I then install the lid, add CO2, and it seals. If you have leaks, either use a spray mix of water and starsan or plumbers leak detector solution to find where it is leaking. In general, I can manually shift the lid a bit with force and get the leak to stop. If that doesn't work you have a lid fit issue. Examine your lid and see if it needs a slight hammer or vice modification to make it fit better. Worst case, you need to buy a new lid. Best of luck!!
 
Jay: Hope your vacation is going great! Thanks for the reply back. My goal is to move to Sanke fermentation and do so under pressure from beginning to end like I now do with several of my (previously) serving cornies. I can probably MacGyver something together to make it work, but having a complete solution available would be much preferred. Looking forward to your Cherry Tart video and snagging one of your cleaners! Cheers!!
 
stonebrewer said:
Jay: Hope your vacation is going great! Thanks for the reply back. My goal is to move to Sanke fermentation and do so under pressure from beginning to end like I now do with several of my (previously) serving cornies. I can probably MacGyver something together to make it work, but having a complete solution available would be much preferred. Looking forward to your Cherry Tart video and snagging one of your cleaners! Cheers!!
Click to expand...

Vacation was WAY overdue and it was a great time! Thanks.

So you are fermenting UNDER pressure? What kind of set up are you using now for regulating that pressure? I am wondering if we can come up with a "parts" solution using Tri clover caps with the pass through TEE or other hardware and some parts idea from your current set up.

Cheers
Jay
 
I will try to post a picture sometime...I ferment with two (or more) cornies. Corny #1 has my wort in it and has a QD from the gas in post to the liquid out post of corny #2, which has some sterilized water in it. Spunding valve is on corny #2's gas out. Fill #1 with 5G of wort, pitch yeast, set spunding to 15 PSI. If I tighten the spunding all the way down, the keg easily hits 40-50 PSI. After day 3 or 4, open keg #1, pitch in my dry hop load, tighten spunding down so no CO2 exits...usually hits about 30 PSI and stops there. Once fermentation is done around day 6 or 7, I disconnect my yeast catcher keg, connect my serving keg liquid in to the liquid in on the fermenter keg, and use CO2 to push into the serving keg (which was filled with CO2 previously). Goals are to 1) catch krausen for yeast starter, 2) keep beer under CO2 at all times, 3) let little or no O2 in the keg, and 4) transfer carbonated beer via pressure into serving keg. Works pretty good, but there are some minor issues I would like to resolve.

For a Sanke setup, I could do this for >10 gallons at a time, which would be great! I would probably still want to connect a krausen catcher corny and serving cornies as I don't plan to serve beer from a Sanke in most cases.
 
I just ordered this and other stuff I need for it to work on my setup. You guys have everything I needed right there in one place. It's looks like a great solution for cleaning my sixths and fermenting etc. in this half barrel keg i've had sitting here. Good job man and thanks from here in Wichita KS! (I actually drove through Redding last July! Northern Cali is awesome wish I lived there!)
 
Shalenkur said:
I just ordered this and other stuff I need for it to work on my setup. You guys have everything I needed right there in one place. It's looks like a great solution for cleaning my sixths and fermenting etc. in this half barrel keg i've had sitting here. Good job man and thanks from here in Wichita KS! (I actually drove through Redding last July! Northern Cali is awesome wish I lived there!)
Click to expand...

Man I wish you would have stopped into the store! Next time you come through make it a point to let me know.

I saw your order come in. It will ship tomorrow AM.

Thanks for the order! Let me know how it works out for you.

Cheers
Jay
 
stonebrewer said:
I will try to post a picture sometime...I ferment with two (or more) cornies. Corny #1 has my wort in it and has a QD from the gas in post to the liquid out post of corny #2, which has some sterilized water in it. Spunding valve is on corny #2's gas out. Fill #1 with 5G of wort, pitch yeast, set spunding to 15 PSI. If I tighten the spunding all the way down, the keg easily hits 40-50 PSI. After day 3 or 4, open keg #1, pitch in my dry hop load, tighten spunding down so no CO2 exits...usually hits about 30 PSI and stops there. Once fermentation is done around day 6 or 7, I disconnect my yeast catcher keg, connect my serving keg liquid in to the liquid in on the fermenter keg, and use CO2 to push into the serving keg (which was filled with CO2 previously). Goals are to 1) catch krausen for yeast starter, 2) keep beer under CO2 at all times, 3) let little or no O2 in the keg, and 4) transfer carbonated beer via pressure into serving keg. Works pretty good, but there are some minor issues I would like to resolve.

For a Sanke setup, I could do this for >10 gallons at a time, which would be great! I would probably still want to connect a krausen catcher corny and serving cornies as I don't plan to serve beer from a Sanke in most cases.
Click to expand...

Just a quick thought on the addition of a spunding valve for keg carbonating. How about I make you a keg fermenting kit and instead of a "TEE" welded to the cap, I weld you on a "CROSS" this would give you 3 points of entry and exit from the unit. You would have the Top for a racking cane, 1 side for a ball valve, and the other for the spunding valve for carbonating. We need to figure out how to close off the racking cane giving it the ability to hold pressure.

Thoughts?

Cheers
Jay
 
Jaybird said:
Just a quick thought on the addition of a spunding valve for keg carbonating. How about I make you a keg fermenting kit and instead of a "TEE" welded to the cap, I weld you on a "CROSS" this would give you 3 points of entry and exit from the unit. You would have the Top for a racking cane, 1 side for a ball valve, and the other for the spunding valve for carbonating. We need to figure out how to close off the racking cane giving it the ability to hold pressure.

Thoughts?

Cheers
Jay
Click to expand...


That sounds reasonable given that we can find a way to make it hold pressure. Could connect the cane to a corny as well like I do in my current setup? I will post pix this weekend...been a little busy and not having much time for my hobbies. :(
 
stonebrewer said:
That sounds reasonable given that we can find a way to make it hold pressure. Could connect the cane to a corny as well like I do in my current setup? I will post pix this weekend...been a little busy and not having much time for my hobbies. :(
Click to expand...

Ya know that is a great idea... Or maybe even just a BEER OUT connector so you are set up WHEN you want to do your transfer. Then the beer doesn't go anywhere till your ready. Barring you have room in the fermenting fridge. Hmmmmmm You got me thinking now man!

Cheers
Jay
 
Here's what I built for pressurized sanke fermentations and racking. I haven't used it yet (newborn will do that to you), but it should work. The tri-clamp fitting has a 1/2" npt fitting welded to the top, where the racking cane passes through, and a thermowell. I put a cross on top of that, with a gas-in ball-lock fitting (for pressurized transfers), a tee with a spunding valve and pressure gauge, and the racking cane comes out the top. The cane then has a ball valve on the end to maintain pressure inside the vessel, with a barb fitting for racking:

IMG_1504.JPG


IMG_1503.JPG
 
Is that a gas-in on the back side of your T that goes to the Spunding Valve for racking?
 
Ztup said:
Is that a gas-in on the back side of your T that goes to the Spunding Valve for racking?
Click to expand...

Yes, there's a gas-in on the back. The valve is an adjustable prv/spunding valve, so you can set it to 5 psi during primary fermentation, then crank it up to 20-30 during secondary. Then when ready to rack, you can pressure transfer at serving pressure so you don't get a foamy transfer (co2 coming out of solution as pressure drops).

What I haven't figured out is how to dry hop...do people open the vessel prior to fermentation completion to dry hop, or dry hop in a keg/secondary vessel?
 
Jaybird said:
There are many Sanke keg spear types out there. Here is a video of how to relieve the pressure and remove the screw in spear type.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDqJ_0fMxq4

There are others that use a spring clip and you just need to start with the pressure removal first then remove the little spring then the spear just comes out and your done. Rinse and then clean as shown.

As for a spunding valve. I don't see the need at this stage of the game. Right now we are working on Cleaning, rinsing, sanatizinng, fermenting AND transferring into and out of the keg. I am using a 000 solid stopper (included) IN the racking cane and then attacking a blow off to the TEE out feed side at the ball valve. A barbed fitting can be used or using the Cam Lock and a piece of tubing into a blow off bucket is what I am using.

I will have several other videos to post. I am going on vacation for the next few days and when I return I will be transferring my Tart Cherry Beer from primary to a keg using the kit and I will absolutely video that for you guys.

As far as Dry hopping in a keg with this kit. You wont be under pressure at this point just under C02 blanket as all the air will have been removed during fermentation. So removal of the kit is as easy as removing the clamp and tossing in hops just like you do yeast. May I suggest ONLY pellet hops. Then you can use the racking cane to transfer out of the keg into your finishing kegs for carbonating and serving.

Let me know if I covered all the questions. Good stuff by the way! Thanks for the interest and the questions.

Cheers
Jay
Click to expand...
Nothin for nothin but I wouldn't be jamming a screwdriver in the ball with the possibility of damaging the seal.I use an open end box wrench,19mm just because I had it on hand.Stick one side of the open end wrench under the tab for leverage and push down on the ball with the backside of the wrench.I think if you try it youll agree its a better way
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
Nothin for nothin but I wouldn't be jamming a screwdriver in the ball with the possibility of damaging the seal.I use an open end box wrench,19mm just because I had it on hand.Stick one side of the open end wrench under the tab for leverage and push down on the ball with the backside of the wrench.I think if you try it youll agree its a better way
Click to expand...


Ohh absolutely agree! I guess I should say I have ZERO intentions of saving that spear. I pull em and toss em. I guess I should save them now that I am doing it all in a keg. Thanks for the input...

Cheers
Jay
 
Jcruse said:
Yes, there's a gas-in on the back. The valve is an adjustable prv/spunding valve, so you can set it to 5 psi during primary fermentation, then crank it up to 20-30 during secondary. Then when ready to rack, you can pressure transfer at serving pressure so you don't get a foamy transfer (co2 coming out of solution as pressure drops).

What I haven't figured out is how to dry hop...do people open the vessel prior to fermentation completion to dry hop, or dry hop in a keg/secondary vessel?
Click to expand...

Where did you get your spunding valve from and is it marked for PSI or do you have to use a pressure gauge like I do?

I do both for dry hopping. I dry hop day 3-4 of primary, so I release pressure, open the keg and toss hops in quickly, seal it back, purge any O2 that might have made it in. I also put hops in a SS canister into my serving kegs, flush with CO2, then push beer in via pressure. I would really like to never open the keg, but not sure there is an easy, inexpensive way to do that. Can imagine some sort of device that opens on a timer, but not sure that is feasible...not sure this is even warranted though, because the yeast will likely scavenge any stray O2 this early into primary...
 
Also too I think there is a small amount of O2 trapped in the hops you are tossing in there as well. At least I would think so anyway.

So I brewed a Kolsch on Saturday 12 gallons. Used the kit to transfer my Tart Cherry to kegs. I am LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVING this set up! There is a fair amount of hardware I use to make my life easy but all in all I am very happy with this.

I also tested this with pressure with a compression fitting on the racking cane and was able to pressurize to about 25#. I was using the Regulator on my tank and to be honest is about 15 years old and been beat to hell so I am not sure how exactly accurate it is but there was no leaks and seemed to hold very well overnight so I am happy with the results for sure.

Cheers
Jay
 
stonebrewer said:
Where did you get your spunding valve from and is it marked for PSI or do you have to use a pressure gauge like I do?

I do both for dry hopping. I dry hop day 3-4 of primary, so I release pressure, open the keg and toss hops in quickly, seal it back, purge any O2 that might have made it in. I also put hops in a SS canister into my serving kegs, flush with CO2, then push beer in via pressure. I would really like to never open the keg, but not sure there is an easy, inexpensive way to do that. Can imagine some sort of device that opens on a timer, but not sure that is feasible...not sure this is even warranted though, because the yeast will likely scavenge any stray O2 this early into primary...
Click to expand...

The adjustable PRV is from amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007GDY3CU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It's not that accurate, though, and that's why I have a pressure gauge on the contraption as well. I might just dry hop in in my serving kegs...what's the longest you've had hops in contact with beer, and did you ever get any off flavors? (altough I tend to drink hoppy beers faster, so not sure it would be an issue):tank:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have left hops in the keg for months with no issues. I would avoid cones and stick with pellets, as the one time I had "grassy" flavors was when I used cones. I also tend to drink my IPAs as quickly as possible. I like to have hops in during primary because of studies on biotransformation of hops by yeast which a lot of pro brewers are taking advantage of to make their awesome beers more awesome...Mitch Steele, JC Tetreault, etc. do it...why not?
 
This post makes my bank account hurt. Saving my pennies so I can order a couple of these. I have one setup from another company but this setup is the cats meow
 
Jaybird said:
Also too I think there is a small amount of O2 trapped in the hops you are tossing in there as well. At least I would think so anyway.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! That is why I pitch them in on day 3, as the yeast are still scavenging for oxygen and will take care of that for you so the beer does not stale. In the serving keg, I put the hops in a SS mesh canister and then flush the keg with CO2 several times to eliminate most of the O2.

Gonna bring this thread to the attention of a few friends who ferment in Sankes this weekend...hopefully that will drum up a sale or two. Cheers!
 

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