Omega OYL-501 Gulo

[Brooothru]

Anybody tried this yet?

I heard about it on the Brut IPA thread. It's a brand new hybrid yeast and is supposed to attenuate to 85-90%. Anyway, I'm really into the process of brewing of brewing and am always looking for something new and/or unusual, so when I popped over to the LHBS I was pleased to see they'd just received a delivery from Omega that morning and hadn't even inventoried it yet. I waited while they unpacked it. There were two OYL-501s in the shipment. I had to snag one on the spot.

So, here I am with this pack of Gulo with little idea how best to use it. Just wondering if I'm the first, or if anyone can give me some guidance. The Omega website had an interesting recipe for a "raw" NEIPA that didn't include a boil!




https://omegayeast.com/raw-neipa-with-gulo-ale

You mash, sparge, raise the wort to 180F and whirlpool the hops ("Do not boil"), chill and pitch the yeast. Hhmm. Let me think about that one....

Brooo Brother

 

[SanPancho]

If i remember correctly from the pr release its got saison/diastaticus genes for attenuation but without the phenolics.

Basically super dry finish (not totally dry tho like using enzymes) but without phenols or funk like youd get from saison or brett.

Not a neipa or hazy expert, but seems a bit of an odd choice to me for that style.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/omegas-new-gulo-ale-yeast.663063/

It's on my list of things to play with. A couple of years ago I made a couple of saisons that finished very dry and it really changed how I view and drink beers - I used to love Marzens and now I find them cloyingly sweet.

My tentative brewing plans this weekend is a 6-oz Medusa-hopped IPA - Two Row, some C20, Carapils, Vienna to ~1.060 OG, magnum for bittering, Medusa at 20, 10, and whirlpool plus dry hop. Hopefully a FG ~1.005. Basically a saison without the peppery phenols. Dry but not brut dry, hoppy but not overly bitter and not juicy. Biggest thing in my head is balancing the relatively low AA of Medusa (4.8%) against a low amount of caramel malt and the overall ABV the hops can support. Concept is still rattling around my head a bit.

For "raw" ales, I never really liked the name; 180° F (and the wort pH) is enough to sanitize. Keeping the temperature below boiling changes how the hop oils are extracted/isomerized, so it is another way to work the process.

For NEIPAs and the like, I personally feel like the overt sweetness and high FG gets in the way of the hoppyness to some extent. A couple of brut IPAs I have had from some members of my club typically use kviek strains, and their glycerol byproducts leave them tasting sweeter than the FG would suggest.

 

[Brooothru]

I agree. That's what I got from the Brut IPA thread as well as the Omega website. I'm wanting to try brewing a 'DryPA' and have assembled all the ingredients, enzymes, and now this Gulo yeast. Just trying to pick the collective braintrust for ideas and recommendations before charging headlong into the breech.

The link to the 'no boil' recipe on the Omega website was an afterthought question about 'no boil' brewing in general rather than the Gulo yeast specifically. I've heard of 'no chill' but never 'no boil'. I wasn't aware that beer could be made without first boiling it.

Brooo Brother

 

[brownni5]

The release I saw was for commercial pitches. I was of the understanding that this was not yet available to the homebrew crowd.

 

[Miraculix]

I agree. That's what I got from the Brut IPA thread as well as the Omega website. I'm wanting to try brewing a 'DryPA' and have assembled all the ingredients, enzymes, and now this Gulo yeast. Just trying to pick the collective braintrust for ideas and recommendations before charging headlong into the breech.

The link to the 'no boil' recipe on the Omega website was an afterthought question about 'no boil' brewing in general rather than the Gulo yeast specifically. I've heard of 'no chill' but never 'no boil'. I wasn't aware that beer could be made without first boiling it.

Brooo Brother

Look up the lazy German thread in the lager forum, it explains the raw thing a bit. Can work, but looks like it's a bit easier to catch an infection with those raw ones.

 

[Brooothru]

The release I saw was for commercial pitches. I was of the understanding that this was not yet available to the homebrew crowd.

I've been exchanging emails with Lance at Omega today. Apparently this is the first release of OYL-501 to the homebrew crowd, and I was lucky enough to be first in line at my LHBS to snag a batch. Not much anecdotal info out there yet. I'll take good notes and report back.

Brooo Brother

 

[Brooothru]

Look up the lazy German thread in the lager forum, it explains the raw thing a bit. Can work, but looks like it's a bit easier to catch an infection with those raw ones.

That was my thinking too. Not something I want to try any time soon.

Brooo Brother

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Did you brew it? I built up a starter off Gulo and now I am trying to figure out my grainbill. Debating on a couple of options, and wanted to see how your experience went.

 

[Brooothru]

Did you brew it? I built up a starter off Gulo and now I am trying to figure out my grainbill. Debating on a couple of options, and wanted to see how your experience went.

I did! I built a huge starter. Lance at Omega told me their experience was that it was slow to start fermenting, but that was not my experience. After 28 hours on the stir plate it settled out into a humongous ring of fresh yeast (about 1/3 cup). I decanted most of the liquid and pitched about ½ cup of really thick slurry and made another starter with the rest (almost another full liter, 250 ml of which was thick slurry).

I pitched into 21 liters of fresh wort @ 63F and had activity in the blow-off within 6 hours. The next morning it was a very strong fermentation even still @ 63F which is below the recommended minimum of 68F. After 4 days the S.G. had dropped from 1.055 to 1.010. I had previously decided to krausen the beer, so at that time I pressure transferred it to a purged keg along with reserved speise at high krausen with Gulo yeast. So far, all is well. The keg hasn't exploded and the spunding valve is still attached.

My grain bill was pretty straightforward:

German Pilsener 73%
White Wheat 9%
Flaked Rice 9%
Aciduated 4.5%
Flaked Corn 4.5%

Hops were: 0.25 oz Hallertau Magnum - FWH
1.00 oz. Hallertau Blanc - Steep/Whirlpool 20 mins @ 170F
1.00 oz. Nelson Sauvin - Steep/Whirlpool 20 mins @ 170F

2.00 oz. Hallertau Blanc - Hop tea 30 mins @ 170F-145F, cooled and blended with speise into krausen on Day 4
1.00 oz. Cryo Amarillo - Hop tea 30 mins @ 170F-145F, cooled and blended with speise into krausen on Day 4

Additionally I did a trub dump on Day 2 of fermentation. I was expecting a lot of crud, but only got about 500 ml before clear beer started flowing. Before transferring to the krausening keg I attempted another trub dump, but instead got about 1½ liters of very dense, very clean yeast. I've never seen anything like this before. I need to mention that I used amylase enzyme in the mash and added amyloglucosidase to the primary, and that may have contributed to the prodigious amount of yeast I recovered as well as the rapid start to the fermentation, although the constant 63F during primary was well below the recommended 68F minimum. Gonna' have to get these reading glasses adjusted.

This was definitely an experimental brew for me, and it remains to be seen what the final verdict is. I'll let you know in a few weeks when it's finally settled, cleared and conditioned. Cheers, and good luck with yours. That Gulo surely is a beast, whether it's in a Dry PA, a saison, or regular IPA/Pale Ale.

Brooo Brother

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I brewed mine on Saturday, 4/6. OG 1.060, 9# 2-row, 2# vienna, 1# c20. 90 minute mash starting at 150°, ending at 142°. 15 minute boil; with 30g Medusa (3% AA!) to 10g Azacca (13%AA) at 15 and 5, with a 120g Medusa, 10g Azacca hop whirlpool at ~175°. Pitched a big starter (with a pint reserved). In 40 hours, OG from 1.060 to ~1.020 (per Tilt hydrometer), so 2oz Medusa dry hop. Krausen is thick and dense, but there is some residual Fermcap from the starter. Pitched at 62° (over-chilled, my tap water is 42° right now), warmed up to 70°, and just bumped it to 72°. Going to ramp bump it another degree or so per day to maximize fermentation. It will be interesting to see how dry it finishes, and I am very curious to see how Medusa and Azacca play together.

 

[Brooothru]

Anxious to hear how it comes out. I've never brewed with either Medusa or Azacca, but I've been playing around with some recipes that call for the Azacca. Why the short boil 15 mins)? Fermentation temp goes from 68F to 78F, IIRC. Esters supposed to be low even at 78F. Your experience with gravity drop over time tracks closely with what I experienced.

My krausening keg has been at ambient temp (69F) for eight days now and pressure has stabilized at ~15-17 psi. with no hissing from the spund. Plan to let it go for another 5-7 days, then crash to 38F to clear, and transfer to a serving keg. Haven't checked gravity since I transferred to the krausening keg. Think I'll go tap a sample right now and see how dry it's gotten. Cheers.

Brooo Brother

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Anxious to hear how it comes out. I've never brewed with either Medusa or Azacca, but I've been playing around with some recipes that call for the Azacca. Why the short boil 15 mins)?

No hop additions prior to 15 minutes; recipe is quasi-NEIPA, so boiling for 45 minutes with no hops is something of a waste of propane. I'm not looking for any major bitterness, but rather big flavor and aroma. Quasi-NEIPA because my water is too hard to replicate the soft mouthfeel without major adjustments/RO base, and lack of adjuncts. More on the lines of quasi-Brut. We'll see how it goes. The major concerns are the low AA of medusa (3%) and the new yeast, but at some point the theory-brewing has to hit the kettle

 

[Brooothru]

No hop additions prior to 15 minutes; recipe is quasi-NEIPA, so boiling for 45 minutes with no hops is something of a waste of propane. I'm not looking for any major bitterness, but rather big flavor and aroma. Quasi-NEIPA because my water is too hard to replicate the soft mouthfeel without major adjustments/RO base, and lack of adjuncts. More on the lines of quasi-Brut. We'll see how it goes. The major concerns are the low AA of medusa (3%) and the new yeast, but at some point the theory-brewing has to hit the kettle

O.K., now I understand. So it's kinda' like a no boil. I've read about the theory of no boil but have been a little leery of trying it. However, a 15~20 minute boil shouldn't be any different than a late addition LME/DME where the objective is to distribute the sugars into the wort and pasteurize it. If the objective is late hops/whirlpool hops/dry hops then your point about, "Why waste the propane", makes perfect sense.

In researching LoDO I came across the idea that extended vigorous boiling to "drive off the DMS" will result in increased dissolved oxygen in the wort which then fuels the oxidation of the precursor alpha acetolactate into diacetyl in the finished beer. Any inputted energy above the boiling temperature merely escapes into the atmosphere (i.e., wasted propane) while putting more D.O. into the wort. LoDO advocates say that a gentle boil is the preferred method to reduce the introduction of more dissolved oxygen while still causing vaporization of DMS. A rapid boil doesn't get rid of DMS, which is continuously being produced by the wort as long as it's hot.

It seems to make sense then, that if the wort isn't getting any hotter than the local boiling point of the liquid, and it's constantly producing DMS just by being warm, then the key to reducing DMS comes from the rapid cooling of the wort rather than an extended rapid boil, which is precisely the point Palmer makes "How to Brew." Therefore, an extended boil doesn't make any sense at all, except for bittering hops. You could just use a hop shot and get the same result without having to boil for an hour of more. So are you really driving off DMS by doing an extended rapid boil or just increasing the probability of diacetyl in your finished beer?

I dunno' but I'm sure the "but we've always done it that way so it must be true" crowd will be quick to voice an opinion. Don't ya' just hate it when sciencey stuff gets in the way of tradition? Of course there's much more to the story of how diacetyl can get into your finished beer (insufficient nutrients and amino acids in the wort, not to mention contamination on the cold side of fermentation and packaging/serving). But we'll save that discussion for another day.

Brooo Brother

 

[mirthfuldragon]

After 4 days the S.G. had dropped from 1.055 to 1.010.

Was 1.010 your FG? That comes out to ~82% attenuation. I'm sitting at ~1.010 for the last two days, from 1.060 (based on the tilt reading, which is not necessarily accurate). Krausen has dropped, and I've ramped slowly up to 75°, and airlock activity has dropped to zero. Going to let it sit for another couple of days, so we will see where it finishes.

 

[Brooothru]

Was 1.010 your FG? That comes out to ~82% attenuation. I'm sitting at ~1.010 for the last two days, from 1.060 (based on the tilt reading, which is not necessarily accurate). Krausen has dropped, and I've ramped slowly up to 75°, and airlock activity has dropped to zero. Going to let it sit for another couple of days, so we will see where it finishes.

Funny you should ask. I just came upstairs from the 'brewery' (basement) after tending to my brews. The Dry Brut PA finished out at 0.998 SG/7.5% ABV, so I hit my numbers exactly as planned. Total gravity drop was 57 points from 1.055 OG to 0.998 FG.

The beer itself is quite nice, in a 'winey' sort of way. The aroma was definitely Pinot Grigio/Sauv Blanc, but the taste brought over some citrus from the Amarillo in the dry hop. The sample I drew from a keg tap was remarkably clear for a beer that hasn't conditioned yet, although it's hard to say if it's because of highly flocculating yeast since I use a floating dip tube attachment, so it draws from the top of the keg rather than the bottom. I put it in for a cold crash in the beer fridge at 38F, so we'll know for sure in a few days. I'll let it condition for a few weeks and the provide a final verdict.

Over all I'm pleased with the results. Even now it impresses me more than the commercial Bruts and Dry PAs I've tried. I may actually end up liking this style, which was not the case with either the NEIPAs I've bought or the one I brewed. Either way, I'm scoring this one a success.

Brooo Brother

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Finished the cold crash and kegged mine today. FG was round 1.008 - not quite as low as I wanted, but oh well. Medusa and Azacca combo came through nicely - cherry and stone fruit come up front, with a little bit of pine and resin in the background, and no dankness at all. Some residual sweetness but not too much, but my palate runs toward drier tastes. I'll post a picture and an updated description in a week or so, once it settles in the keg a bit.

 

[isomerization]

Finished the cold crash and kegged mine today. FG was round 1.008 - not quite as low as I wanted, but oh well. Medusa and Azacca combo came through nicely - cherry and stone fruit come up front, with a little bit of pine and resin in the background, and no dankness at all. Some residual sweetness but not too much, but my palate runs toward drier tastes. I'll post a picture and an updated description in a week or so, once it settles in the keg a bit.

Keep in mind that @Brooothru added glucoamylase to the fermenter.

It’s cool to see that whatever the means, the glucoamylase (STA1) produced by the Gulo hybrid isn’t as active.

 

[blkmagik98]

Anybody tried this yet?

I heard about it on the Brut IPA thread. It's a brand new hybrid yeast and is supposed to attenuate to 85-90%. Anyway, I'm really into the process of brewing of brewing and am always looking for something new and/or unusual, so when I popped over to the LHBS I was pleased to see they'd just received a delivery from Omega that morning and hadn't even inventoried it yet. I waited while they unpacked it. There were two OYL-501s in the shipment. I had to snag one on the spot.

So, here I am with this pack of Gulo with little idea how best to use it. Just wondering if I'm the first, or if anyone can give me some guidance. The Omega website had an interesting recipe for a "raw" NEIPA that didn't include a boil!




https://omegayeast.com/raw-neipa-with-gulo-ale

You mash, sparge, raise the wort to 180F and whirlpool the hops ("Do not boil"), chill and pitch the yeast. Hhmm. Let me think about that one....

Brooo Brother

Omega recommended it for stouts, so I brewed a #w00tstout clone using the Northern Brewer all grain recipe from when they still carried it. My OG was 1.116 (recipe says 1.108 but my process is pretty efficient). My starter was 1.3L of water to a cup of DME and I ran it twice like that and pitched a huge starter. The Gulo took it all the way down to 1.003! Whoops, there goes the mouthfeel but it's going to pack a punch at 15% ABV.

 

[MMM2]

I did the Northern Brewer's "Fresh Squished IPA" (nice kit, & when it went for $22, I just couldn't resist).
Omega's 501 Gulo Ale Yeast (together with some kveiks for more experimenting) I got from AustinHomebrew, who did a fast delivery, ("Thank you!"), just in time before our first real heat wave of this year.
Brew day was a stress test with 2 electricity failures (I brew biab on electric kitchen furnace) so the mash was a bit of a mess.
For 5 or 6 hours I had made a 2 l yeast starter at 80*F temps, pitched that into the 5.5 gal 80*F wort (0.5tsp of Wyeast's beer nutrient). No extra oxygen, just splashing while pouring the fluids into the FV. - Next day I needed to establish a blow off tube, and I reduced the fermentation temperature for the next 3 days to ~66.5*F, thereafter 70* again for the rest of 3 weeks fermentation (incl. DH), then bottling with 4oz corn sugar. This beer had gone from SG 1.062 to 1.006.
After 2 weeks in the bottle I tested the first one: FG has now dropped to 1.004
According to BeerSmith that's over 93% apparent attenuation.
Well, I hope that that is it, but of course I'll keep testing it every other day or so and will report if there are any more surprises.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

Omega recommended it for stouts, so I brewed a #w00tstout clone using the Northern Brewer all grain recipe from when they still carried it. My OG was 1.116 (recipe says 1.108 but my process is pretty efficient). My starter was 1.3L of water to a cup of DME and I ran it twice like that and pitched a huge starter. The Gulo took it all the way down to 1.003! Whoops, there goes the mouthfeel but it's going to pack a punch at 15% ABV.

Contrary to conventional wisdom your mouthfeel will probably be fine. This yeast doesn't produce a super thin beer.

 

[Birdgunner]

Curious if others have been trying this and their experience with it.
I have used it three times, once with an IPA, once with a raw NEIPA and once with a lighter ale.
The IPA and Raw NEIPA turned out awesome, super clean, super fast, fermented at 85F-ish, couldn't ask for anything more...the raw actually went from grain to glass in under a week and was amazing. The lighter ale (22 IBU's from Liberty) is tough to call... I used flaked barely for the first time ever (8%) with Golden Promise (80%) and wheat (12%) so I am not really sure what flavors the barely imparts but the best way I can describe how this turned out is a German Hefe minus the banana and clove but the mouthfeel, that slight heaviness and the taste just reminds me so much of a Domhof hefe which is the last thing I would have expected from this so I am not sure if the unexpected flavor is from the flaked barely or the yeast... Anyone else try this yeast with a lighter style beer where off flavors can't hide?
I have used Hornidal in a lighter style ale with awesome success (cleaner than my old tried and true S-05 with no "bread burps" as my friends like to say), was hoping this would be similar or cleaner but perhaps not...