Not so Belgian double

[InspectorJon]

I bought a kit that has the following ingredients because it was only $17 shipped to my front door. It is a Belgian Double by MoreBeer. I really am not a fan of the flavors most Belgian yeasts produce. Do folks have any recommendations on what to ferment this with to not end up with phenolic, clove or banana flavors?

8 lbs 2-Row Pale
4 lbs German Pilsner
1 lb Candi Syrup D-90
4 oz Caramunich
4 oz Special B
1 oz Perle – Boil 60 min
1 oz Saaz – Boil last 1 min

 

[Big Monk]

I bought a kit that has the following ingredients because it was only $17 shipped to my front door. It is a Belgian Double by MoreBeer. I really am not a fan of the flavors most Belgian yeasts produce. Do folks have any recommendations on what to ferment this with to not end up with phenolic, clove or banana flavors?

8 lbs 2-Row Pale
4 lbs German Pilsner
1 lb Candi Syrup D-90
4 oz Caramunich
4 oz Special B
1 oz Perle – Boil 60 min
1 oz Saaz – Boil last 1 min

Just brew it as a brown ale.

 

[andrewmaixner]

WY 1388 (Duval strain) is probably the most subtle of the appropriate strains. It's what I'd recommend to you. I've tested them all side-by-side.

I've tested using US05 in a split of a dubbel, and it ended up too sweet due to having essentially no yeast expression at all to balance the dark syrup.

Maybe you could use a blend of us05 and another to tone it down, but I've not tried that before.

 

[Big Monk]

If you can hold the temperature around 68 °F the whole time, 3787 would be a good choice. Pitch at 64 °F and set controller to 68 °F.

3787 is pretty much my house yeast.

 

[andrewmaixner]

If you can hold the temperature around 68 °F the whole time, 3787 would be a good choice. Pitch at 64 °F and set controller to 68 °F.
3787 is pretty much my house yeast.

That's the Westmalle strain (WLP version is 530). It is consistently the crowd favorite in comparisons vs any other trappist strain.

 

[Big Monk]

That's the Westmalle strain (WLP version is 530). It is consistently the crowd favorite in comparisons vs any other trappist strain.

It seems well suited to homebrew fermenters as opposed to 1214 or 1762. Those two can be finicky and that has a bit to do with the commercial versus homebrew transition.

 

[smata67]

If you are going to change the yeast (to let's say S04 or S05), then also change the hops and adjust the IBUs, as the recipe as is has only 25.

 

[smata67]

I actually have brewed this twice (with some minor changes) and it is an excellent recipe. I mashed at 150F and fermented at 68F with Wyeast 1388. I don't recall any banana or untoward phenolics. The grain bill yields a medium color (SRM 15) robust tasting beer, those issues are more for lighter colored ales with few specialty grains. You could brew as is using a Belgian yeast in the "clean" range such as WLP500 or WLP550 in the indicated temperature range (58F - 66F) per the attached chart. I'm actually going to split my next brew of this beer using the perle/saaz as in this

recipe and German hallertauer at 1.5oz for 60 minutes (no flavor or aroma additions). Either combination will yield about 20-25 IBUs. You don't want to go any higher.

 

[brownni5]

Not a fan of Belgian yeasts? I don't understand... Mmmm, phenols!

1388 might be a good choice - pear esters and light on the phenolics.

 

[andrewmaixner]

Not a fan of Belgian yeasts? I don't understand... Mmmm, phenols!
1388 might be a good choice - pear esters and light on the phenolics.

Yup, that's exactly what I suggested above Nice to hear others agree, I like the strain.

 

[InspectorJon]

Not a fan of Belgian yeasts? I don't understand... Mmmm, phenols!

Yah, my wife doesn’t like hops. Go figure. Thanks for all the input. Nobody mentioned S-33. That option seems to invoke strong opinions from what I have read.

 

[thehaze]

S-33 is not Belgian. It is English and even if slightly estery when compared with the likes of US-05 or Nottingham, it will not produce a Belgian beer. There are better options out there: T-58, BE-256, Danstar Abbaye.

 

[andrewmaixner]

S-33 is not Belgian. It is English and even if slightly estery when compared with the likes of US-05 or Nottingham, it will not produce a Belgian beer. There are better options out there: T-58, BE-256, Danstar Abbaye.

Yes, BE-256 is fairly 'boring', which may be what this guy wants. I had almost forgotten about it as I stopped using it after an 8-way split experiment, and the manufacturer renamed/rebranded it.

Lallemand Danstar Abbaye is similar to Chimay (wlp500) but a little better IMO, though still a very expressive yeast.

I've not had good experience with T-58 (aside from at very low pH where it expresses cleanly) compared to all the other options out there.

 

[TheMadKing]

Not a fan of Belgian yeasts? I don't understand... Mmmm, phenols!

1388 might be a good choice - pear esters and light on the phenolics.

I'm with the OP... Can't stand Belgian phenol flavors and I've very sensitive to them, so I can taste/smell them even in small amounts and they instantly ruin a beer for me.

Brew it with a munich lager yeast, cut out the candi sugar and call it a doppelbock

 

[Big Monk]

Y
Lallemand Danstar Abbaye is similar to Chimay (wlp500) but a little better IMO, though still a very expressive yeast.

Very underrated and little known yeast, especially for Dark Trappist ales. Don't talk to loudly or too often about it though...

From my correspondence with the technical staff at Lallemand, it has true Trappist provenance, although i'm not sure how we could prove that. It does fare better in dark ales, IME.

 

[thehaze]

I agree about the Danstar Abbaye. In pale/lighter beers, it's not very good. But it does work better in dark beers. I will try it this summer and prepare a beer for the autumn/winter season.

 

[InspectorJon]

Brew it with a munich lager yeast, cut out the candi sugar and call it a doppelbock

Why leave the Candi sugar out? I made the caramel amber ale here on HBT and it uses a similar syrup. I like it pretty well. I know the syrup is not traditional for a doppelbock but would it make it bad somehow? Candi syrup should ferment all the way dry shouldn't it?

 

[TheMadKing]

Why leave the Candi sugar out? I made the caramel amber ale here on HBT and it uses a similar syrup. I like it pretty well. I know the syrup is not traditional for a doppelbock but would it make it bad somehow? Candi syrup should ferment all the way dry shouldn't it?

Yes it would ferment out but sugar does impact beer flavor. I think it's hard to make any German style taste right while using adjuncts. I'm sure plenty of people do it successfully all the time, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Big Monk]

Brew it with a Munich lager yeast, cut out the candi sugar and call it a doppelbock.

Why leave the Candi sugar out? I made the caramel amber ale here on HBT and it uses a similar syrup. I like it pretty well. I know the syrup is not traditional for a doppelbock but would it make it bad somehow? Candi syrup should ferment all the way dry shouldn't it?

Yes it would ferment out but sugar does impact beer flavor. I think it's hard to make any German style taste right while using adjuncts. I'm sure plenty of people do it successfully all the time, but that's just my opinion.

It's a good opinion. Sugar in a Belgian/Trappist/WhatHaveYou style beer is going to promote higher levels of attenuation and lighten the body by displacing malt.

Doppelbock is to the Dubbel what a Barleywine is to a Dark Strong. Roughly the same characteristics between all of them but with much higher attenuation due to sugar content.

 

[Soulshine2]

I bought a kit that has the following ingredients because it was only $17 shipped to my front door. It is a Belgian Double by MoreBeer. I really am not a fan of the flavors most Belgian yeasts produce. Do folks have any recommendations on what to ferment this with to not end up with phenolic, clove or banana flavors?

8 lbs 2-Row Pale
4 lbs German Pilsner
1 lb Candi Syrup D-90
4 oz Caramunich
4 oz Special B
1 oz Perle – Boil 60 min
1 oz Saaz – Boil last 1 min

US-05