How long do you feel is proper for primary.

[kh54s10]

Where do you fall into the fermentation time question?
This for primary with no secondary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kh54s10
What are your percentages of good to great beers? I am in the 3 week camp.
I have had beers that tasted like crap at 9 days and fantastic at 3 weeks.
I would rather wait than risk a crappy beer. I have made 20 batches and have not had a bad one among them.

Oh drat I just jinxed myself again!

I don't feel that it is a myth. And, I think you are in a minority on this topic.
Now the difference between 3 and 4 weeks???

Edit: Sorry for the off topic rant in response to a rant!
Edit 2: But whatever works for you.



I have over two dozen medals and I finished third in the New York State Homebrewer of the Year (NYSHOTY) competition last year, an invitational that only homebrewers with over five medal wins in that season could enter. Just scored another over the weekend for a Scottish 80 at the Amber Waves of Grain, a competition with 635 entries that I also judged in.

I short primary (< 1 week) almost all of my beers. My Saisons definitely take a bit longer.

I'm not trying to brag or get into a pissing contest. Brew the way you want. I'm trying to make a point and my credentials speak to it. I'm sure beers can be great with 3 week primaries and whatever secondaries people use. But the incessant insistence on this forum that you MUST do a 3 week primary by some members or that you must do a secondary from a guy whose primary interest is to sell you more equipment drives me nuts. It's one of the reasons I stopped posting for a couple of months here. Every time I went to give somebody some advice I'd get flamed for it.

See things haven't changed.

I might be in the minority, but I also know that there are some seriously kick-ass, as in NATIONAL competition winning brewers that post here that will agree with me.
__________________

Is this a case of a very good brewer?

Do you think short primary good advice for the average brewer.

FWIW I think my brews that were 3 weeks or longer seem better than ones fermented for shorter time periods. That being said I have never brewed the exact same thing twice.

Also, I have opted for 3 weeks as an average between short and month+ long recommendations and will continue unless something makes me more comfortable with a different timetable.

 

[thetragichero]

wait, he won a contest he was a judge in?

 

[Zen_Brew]

Find the process that works for you and use it. While a week seems a bit short to me, if it is working for you...salute. I think the prolonged primary might be a bit over stated online at times. Personally, I leave most of my beers on the yeast 10-20 days, mostly depending on when I have time to rack it. I'd say my average time is about 2 weeks and I am pleased with most of my beers and do well with them in contests also.

 

[MacGruber]

I used to do secondary and follow the 1-2-2 rule. Then I read the argument for a longer primary without secondary and really started paying attention to what guys like Revvy had to say. For my past six brews I've only used primary. I usually let it sit for three weeks. I had a pumpkin ale that weighed in at 8.5% that I let sit for 4 weeks. I don't know if it's necessary. My tell tale sign that it's ready to keg is when I can see clearly into the bottom of the fermenter while looking at the side and see the yeast layer on the bottom about a half inch in through the side. I hope that makes sense. Since I've been using this process, my beers have been fantastic. Once again, I don't know if three weeks is necessary, but it works for me!

 

[Yooper]

I usually don't do a "secondary" and leave the beer in the fermenter 10-14 days, depending on what I'm making. I package the beer then.

 

[MacGruber]

I tend to listen to everything Yooper has to say. Trust her.

 

[TarVolon]

I've been wondering this too. I've seen a ton of "long primary, no secondary" vs "short primary + secondary" debates, but I haven't seen much on exactly how long the long primary, no secondary should be.

I know Revvy suggests a month. But if I were to do three weeks, would that confer a lot of the same benefits?

My first beer was 2.5 weeks in primary, 3 weeks in bottles before I tried any. It was a hell of a lot better after 4 weeks in bottles.

My inclination is to go 3-0-3, but that's mostly based on them being nice, round figures. Info from experienced folks would be great.

 

[TheBrewinator]

Mine varies, all depends on if I'm brewing for something and need to push it through the process faster or if I'm just keeping the pipeline going. Most my beers get 2 weeks primary then straight to keg, however I've done plenty that were kegged after 1 week and they turned out to be good beers.

 

[MacGruber]

I've been sticking to three week primary then keg. Works great for me.

 

[carltjones]

2 weeks if under 1.05 OG, otherwise 3+ weeks. But I don't have the (most impressive) 40k posts. Cheers.

 

[wilserbrewer]

2 weeks if under 1.05 OG, otherwise 3+ weeks. But I don't have the (most impressive) 40k posts. Cheers.

good basic summary...I'll second this motion even if the post count is low

 

[RM-MN]

I know Revvy suggests a month. But if I were to do three weeks, would that confer a lot of the same benefits?

Beer should stay in the primary fermenter until it is done. Notice that I put no timeline on that. Yeast don't punch a time clock nor do they schedule vacations. They do what they do when they want to do it. You have very little control over that. One control you have is temperature. Yeast works faster near the warmer end of its preferred range. It also likes to leave you with undesirable flavors then too. Fermetning cooler slows the process and reduces the fusel alcohol and the phenols and esters we associate with bad flavored beer.

The second control we have over the yeast is the amount of sugars for them to eat. Less sugars means the ferment is complete sooner. Lots of sugars (think barleywine) takes lots more time. Now add this variable to the first and your timeline is gone.

The third control is the type of malt used. Just how much of the sugar is unfermentable and how will that react with the alcohol produced? I don't know the chemical changes but I do know that my darker beers take lots more time to be good to drink than my really light color beers.

Now what did you say about how long it takes for wort to become good beer?

 

[Brulosopher]

I usually don't do a "secondary" and leave the beer in the fermenter 10-14 days, depending on what I'm making. I package the beer then.

Aaaaaaaaamen, sistah!! Though I've been known to package after 5-7 days if I'm not dry hopping and it's 1.050 or less... what what?!?

Word.

 

[AnOldUR]

The &#8220;no secondary / long primary&#8221; is based on two things. First, that you don&#8217;t have the skill to transfer without infecting or oxygenating. Second, that your brewing technique is so poor that it will take time for the imperfections to age out. Fix those things and you&#8217;ll be drinking excellent beer a lot sooner and you won&#8217;t have to worry about those off flavors that won&#8217;t be healed by time.





And as to the OP question:

How long do you feel is proper for primary.

Three days after fermentation has stopped.

 

[two_hearted]

The “no secondary / long primary” is based on two things. First, that you don’t have the skill to transfer without infecting or oxygenating. Second, that your brewing technique is so poor that it will take time for the imperfections to age out. Fix those things and you’ll be drinking excellent beer a lot sooner and you won’t have to worry about those off flavors that won’t be healed by time.

Way to insult a bunch of people...

I believe it is based on A.) Transferring is always a greater risk of infection/oxidizing versus not transferring. B.) Some time on the yeast cake post fermentation has many benefits.

I have recently begun waiting until fermentation is complete, then sitting it at room temps for a few more days until I have time to take it to the next step (dry hop, keg, cold crash, etc.).

 

[Bob]

I'm going to agree with AnOldUR to a certain extent, though I agree his delivery could have been more tactful.

Yes, transferring introduces the risk of infection and oxidation. However, that risk is minimized to the point of RDWHAHB through basic sanitation procedure. Leaving the beer on the yeast has many benefits. Those benefits occur within 36-72 hours of the cessation of active fermentation. He's actually quite right. That doesn't mean the "leave it alone" crowd are wrong, though! Leaving the beer in the primary for weeks has benefits, but those pertain mostly to ease of process, not quality control.

When to move beer, or even to move it at all, is also impacted by equipment issues. If you ferment in a sealed system - carboy or conical - transfer shouldn't be needed. If you ferment open - in a bucket, even with an airlock - you may wish to transfer out of the open/porous container for bulk aging, flavoring additions or fining.

Pay close attention to what RM-MN says above. Yeast can't read HBT. Don't set them an arbitrary schedule.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[AnOldUR]

Way to insult a bunch of people...

Yeah, Bob is right. Sorry if I wasn&#8217;t tactful.

But reading the Palmer, Zainasheff, Strong . . . stuff (and read between the lines), that is the conclusion I come up with. I&#8217;d guess it&#8217;s just political correctness and tact that keep them from coming right out and saying it.

No one is (at least not me) is saying that a long primary is bad, just not necessary.

 

[Homercidal]

Firstly, "In my opinion", beers should stay in the primary until the initial fermentation is complete. That can vary based on the yeast strain and the beer style.

IMO the risk of infecting your beer by racking to secondary is practically NIL if you follow standard sanitation practices and your environment is not awash with nasty bacteria.

The risk of over-oxygenating your beer during a rack to secondary is also very low unless you are just being careless or ignorant.

People often forgo the secondary when they keg. The keg is literally performing the job a secondary would do anyway. It's a bright tank where the yeast can further drop out of suspension.

I generally leave my beer on the yeast for 2-4 weeks because they are generally done fermenting at about 2 weeks. The extra time is me being lazy or for the crash cool, which I do before racking to keg or bottle. I don't "secondary" most of my beer because I have not seen ANY advantage to adding a second vessel into the process. It's either racked into a keg for clearing and serving, or crash cooled for clearing and then bottled, if bottling.

I don't subscribe to the idea that a beer will get a big benefit from a LONG primary if it's brewed properly. They yeast that is doing anything is still the yeast that is floating around, which is still going to be floating around whether you secondary or not. Except for certain high gravity beers, or beers with fancy ingredients, the beer will be ready for kegging or bottling when it's gravity is where it needs to be.

 

[two_hearted]

I agree with the last three posts.

I do believe that most of the advocating for long primary happens in the beginners forums. Common mistakes for beginners is a lack of patience, very basic equipment, bad instructions with kits, no temp control, no oxygenation, etc. A long primary can help combat these mistakes and fix many off flavors. It certainly did wonders for me.

Now that I am progressing and have a ferm chamber, kegging equipment, good AG equipment, stirplates, etc. it is much easier for me to cut out some of the waiting time. I've now got some of the skill that AnOldUR was talking about.

A long primary wont hurt anything, but it can help a lot if your beer needs time to smooth out the edges. I think its good advice for newbies. As the OP pointed out, many skilled brewers can produce a great product from grain to glass in a few weeks.

 

[Bob]

I think the problem with any procedure comes when "good advice for newbies" - which is almost always deliberately oversimplified - becomes "GOSPELDONTYOUDAREQUESTIONIT". The thoughtful brewer, as s/he gains XP, will begin to note wise deviations from the oversimplified newbie advice. S/he asks what appear to be more in-depth questions. People like me answer those questions at the level we perceive the question, contradict the Gospel, and immediately get pounced on. Then the flame war commences.

This is a very common effect here on HBT.

The effect is disturbing because it appears some HBT denizens have no concept of "lies to children" - the simplification of difficult technical explanations which are often contradicted by the real, detailed facts. It is a pedagogical strategy used here without regard to the age of the audience, and it is incredibly effective. The trouble comes when people either latch on to the "lie" and refuse to let go, or refuse to be told that the "lie" isn't the whole truth. It's funny - that appears to be an adult phenomenon, as children seem perfectly capable of discarding the "lie" as their learning progresses.

But I digress.

Bob

 

[afr0byte]

I'd have to say I'm in the 7-14 day camp for most beers. The 7 day primary will be a lower abv beer with a more flocculant yeast. Sure, the beers will get better in the keg, but that's just from settling/carbonation. I agree with Bob in that any extra benefits from the yeast will happen in the 36-72 hours after FG is reached.

 

[Brulosopher]

I think the problem with any procedure comes when "good advice for newbies" - which is almost always deliberately oversimplified - becomes "GOSPELDONTYOUDAREQUESTIONIT". The thoughtful brewer, as s/he gains XP, will begin to note wise deviations from the oversimplified newbie advice. S/he asks what appear to be more in-depth questions. People like me answer those questions at the level we perceive the question, contradict the Gospel, and immediately get pounced on. Then the flame war commences.

This is a very common effect here on HBT.

The effect is disturbing because it appears some HBT denizens have no concept of "lies to children" - the simplification of difficult technical explanations which are often contradicted by the real, detailed facts. It is a pedagogical strategy used here without regard to the age of the audience, and it is incredibly effective. The trouble comes when people either latch on to the "lie" and refuse to let go, or refuse to be told that the "lie" isn't the whole truth. It's funny - that appears to be an adult phenomenon, as children seem perfectly capable of discarding the "lie" as their learning progresses.

But I digress.

Bob

I'd love to drink with you. For reals! This is good stuff.

 

[AnOldUR]

I'd love to drink with you. For reals!

I wouldn't mind crashing that party!

Heads up, if you're ever on the East Coast. The Ship Inn would be a good meeting place. Fresh Real Ale on a hand pump!

 

[shoreman]

I usually don't do a "secondary" and leave the beer in the fermenter 10-14 days, depending on what I'm making. I package the beer then.

That's about where I am - ill secondary my small Belgian batches before bottling though

 

[beergolf]

It really depends on the beer and the yeast. Low gravity beers---2 weeks.. a great big Belgian 2 months. Most beers are usually 3 weeks.

 

[EllisTX]

Lately since I've finally got on top of pitching the correct amount of yeast, I go 10 days to 2 weeks. I dry hop almost all of my beers so they usually go into the keg then to dry hop for a few more days, then to he kegerator.

 

[ayoungrad]

I agree with most of what has been posted here...

For beginning brewers, I would encourage people to leave batches in primary for at least 3 weeks.

But, once you have nailed down your processes, most batches can be ready to bottle in 10-14 days with some exceptions as already mentioned.

 

[Yooper]

I wouldn't mind crashing that party!

Me too! Could you imagine the fun we'd have?!?!

There is nothing better than having a couple of beers with fellow beer geeks.

I appreciate Bob's input, as I've noticed the same thing on the forum. While I"m absolutely thrilled that the "old" advice of "Get the beer off of the yeast cake as soon as possible!" is pretty much gone, the newer advice of "Keep the beer in the primary for at least a month or your beer will suck" has gone too far to the other direction.

Remember that the yeast "clean up" that is talked about takes about 24-48 hours after FG is reached (if that, as the yeast are also digesting diacetyl and other things before the FG is reached). The clearing can take a while if a non-flocculant yeast is used, but in most cases the beer starts to clear right about the time the FG is reached.

That means a 1.040 beer using English yeast may be done fermenting in 2 days, the "clean up" over by day 3, and the beer completely clear by day 5. That of course is in a well made beer when off-flavors aren't generated in the first place- proper pitching and fermentation temperatures and the correct amount of yeast pitched.

I feel like if I mentioned that I bottled a beer on day 5 (say, a mild with an OG of 1.037), I would get jumped on. Now, I still don't package a beer quite that soon in usual circumstances, but I certainly HAVE kegged a mild on day 7 and been drinking it by day 10.

For beginners, the simple advice to "Leave the beer alone for a couple of weeks and keep it at 65 degrees" is probably good advice. But since most of us are intelligent people, a more in depth explanation is also warranted.

 

[badbrew]

Here's my rules:
1. Ferment 1 week, if bubbles stop and krausen falls, taste.
2. If it tastes right and is clear enough, keg.
3. If not wait another week and repeat.
4. Check gravity if something looks strange or it tastes weird.
5. If it is not quite finished, it will be in the keg.:cross:

I got a tad skunking from my last lager while in the carboy for 3 weeks.

I don't make too many dark beers or high gravity so the rules will change for that.

 

[Bob]

Me too! Could you imagine the fun we'd have?!?!

There is nothing better than having a couple of beers with fellow beer geeks.

Yes, there is. But I only know one Playboy model. She's a hoot to drink with. But there is only one and I'm too selfish to share.

Now, I still don't package a beer quite that soon in usual circumstances, but I certainly HAVE kegged a mild on day 7 and been drinking it by day 10.

Don't you know that you're supposed to follow Jamicharlie Palmaicheff's advice TO THE LETTER, including all the apocrypha from BN podcasts and Zymurgy interviews!? HOW DARE YOU CONTRADICT ME!

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Somewhere between 3 days and 3 months. If you're using a single fermentation vessel, you leave your beer there until it's done, which is subjective based on the results of your sampling.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

I'm in the 3 week camp for the most part, but it depends on the beer. The main reason for me is that there is no question that the beer is done at that point. I really don't like to mess with the Beer once it's in the Fermenter. So I just leave it be until I rack it to a Keg, then I'll pull a hydro sample from the Tap once I have it on C02. Bigger,Malt forward styles I'll usually leave for 5 weeks, and for Hefe I'll go Two. I don't ever see myself being able to have a beer drinkable sooner than 4 weeks, unless I wanted to drink it flat. But that is just what feels right for me, I would feel that I rushed it otherwise. Although one of these days I should try to get a Beer from Grain to Glass in 10 days, just to see if I can do it, and do it well.

 

[afr0byte]

The main reason for me is that there is no question that the beer is done at that point.

Wouldn't taste and a couple of gravity readings tell you if it's done before then?

 

[afr0byte]

Anecdote: I have a tripel that's right at 7 days, and finished fermenting (probably done, at 1.011...from ~1.080). I'm tasting the hydrometer sample right now and I can't detect any hot alcohols. Obviously it's still yeasty, so it's not perfectly smooth. I'll leave it for another week on the yeast, but that'll mostly be at cold temps to crash out the yeast. I'll, perhaps obviously, store it cold in the keg for a while (month or two probably). I used 2 smackpacks (Rochefort yeast) in a ~1.3 liter stir-plate starter...about 80 seconds pure O2 before pitching). I started at about 64 degrees and ramped up to about 72-73. I'm psyched about this beer if you folks couldn't tell.

 

[Brulosopher]

Anecdote: I have a tripel that's right at 7 days, and finished fermenting (probably done, at 1.011...from ~1.080). I'm tasting the hydrometer sample right now and I can't detect any hot alcohols. Obviously it's still yeasty, so it's not perfectly smooth. I'll leave it for another week on the yeast, but that'll mostly be at cold temps to crash out the yeast. I'll, perhaps obviously, store it cold in the keg for a while (month or two probably). I used 2 smackpacks (Rochefort yeast) in a ~1.3 liter stir-plate starter...about 80 seconds pure O2 before pitching). I started at about 64 degrees and ramped up to about 72-73. I'm psyched about this beer if you folks couldn't tell.

Sounds very well made, and delicious!

 

[osagedr]

somewhere between 3 days and 3 months.

qft

 

[kh54s10]

Well, It seems there is no consensus on this. I see the extremes on an average brew to be; to package at about 7 days and on the long side at 4+ weeks.

Several suggested that for the beginner, whose processes might not be perfected, it is probably best to go a little longer.

To say that it is a myth that you can package in a week, or that you need to ferment for a month are probably both inaccurate.

So, I am going to stick to what I am comfortable with, which is to split the difference and go for about 3 weeks. I will also suggest, that for most brewers this is probably the best route.

To each his own, but getting flamed goes both ways. For those who assert that as soon as FG is reached is good, and also for those who assert that leaving the beer in primary longer has to be done for better beer.

IMO it also seems that most of the posts where there have been problems stem from racking or packaging too soon and rarely from anything to do with leaving the beer in primary longer.

Again to complain about the "Myth" of either short or long fermentation without further explanation of the many variables is doing a disservice to a new brewer.

Brew on and make many more great beers whatever your process is.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Wouldn't taste and a couple of gravity readings tell you if it's done before then?

Sure, but like I said I don't like messing with the beer. So I've opted to go the 3 week route for most beers. 2 weeks would probably suffice, but I've had good luck with 3 weeks.