Home Pasteurizing (no, really)

[PintOfBitter]

Nobody wants pasteurized beer, but I've been wanting to experiment with pasteurizing my sodas. I've been enjoying my latest ginger ale quite a bit, but it's only a matter of time before the stuff spoils in my keg, with all the unguarded sugar and nutrients in it.

I'm thinking of trying to keg fill bottles and pasteurize them, maybe in a water bath. Anybody ever tried something like this? If not, any ideas to contribute to the experiment?

PoB

 

[Pabst Blue Robot]

Nobody wants pasteurized beer, but I've been wanting to experiment with pasteurizing my sodas. I've been enjoying my latest ginger ale quite a bit, but it's only a matter of time before the stuff spoils in my keg, with all the unguarded sugar and nutrients in it.

I'm thinking of trying to keg fill bottles and pasteurize them, maybe in a water bath. Anybody ever tried something like this? If not, any ideas to contribute to the experiment?

PoB

Maybe you can connect the out post on the keg to a copper coil submerged in boiling water, then the other end can be connected to the outpost on a second keg that's been purged with CO2and has the relief valve stuck open? Not sure about contact time. Directly heating the keg seems like a poor idea due to pressure build up.

 

[david_42]

Why not use campden tables and sorbate to kill the bugs? Since it's kegged, you can force carbonate.

 

[PintOfBitter]

I like your suggestion, but I had originally been thinking more along the lines of pasteurizing sealed bottles so that; a) carbonation would be intact after the heating and cooling, and b) the sealed bottle would not have any chance to be contaminated until opening for serving.

Maybe this is not an interest for many, but I'll post any findings if I come up with a method to try. I know there are some members in the bio/med/chem industry - maybe someone will have some insight.

PoB

 

[PintOfBitter]

oops, looks like we were posting concurrently.

I failed to mention that one of my main reasons for wanting to develop a pasteurization method is to bottle sodas for distribution to my friends.

I'm not familiar with sorbate - is it like campden, where a gas is released? also - not to be snobbish, but I always like to keep my ingredients natural if possible. What's sorbate all about?

PoB

 

[Pumbaa]

IIRC when they pasturize milk they only get it to 160 for like 10 seconds so . . . .

I'm wondering if you ran it through an IC type contraption submerged in boiling water if thatwould be enuff. Maybe put a valve at the bottom to controll your flow rate so you can maintain a specific temp. Have it drain into your kegs and force carb

or hell just dump it into a pot, bring it up to temp and keg it

**EDIT**
just saw you want to btotle it so your gonna have to force carb it in a keg and bottle from there because there is no yeast to carb it after ya paturize it

 

[david_42]

Potassium sorbate combined with campden will kill just about everything. I would be very concerned about bottle bombs. Sodas require high carbonation levels and heating would be tricky.

Another alternative is to bottle in clear glass and use UV lamps after carbonation has occurred.

 

[Dougieb]

I read about someone pasteurizing beer before. They heated the bottles in water to 60c for 20 minutes. That temp may be a bit high. I would do more research on that. But it is VERY important to not let the bottles touch the bottom of the pot. This would put "heat shock" on the bottles and crack/break them. Also, be careful when you remove them. (Do not put them on a granite/marble counter for fear of the same thing.)

 

[ajwillys]

According to Wikipedia, milk is heated to 71.7 °C (161 °F) for 15–20 seconds.

I would create a water bath (heat stick, temperature controller, stirrer or bubbler) at the precise temperature you want (161) then drop the bottles in there for enough time for the liquid inside (not the bottle itself) to be at that temp for 20 seconds, then take them out and repeat with the rest of the bottles.

 

[Brewin_CRAZY]

We actually pasteurize our beer and cider when we bottle it as it can sit for a very long time. All you need to do is bottle your beer/soda/whatever making sure to leave a little head space. If you dont leave headspace when the liquid expands it will turn into a very pretty (as it shoots out of the bottle) and VERY sticky mess, trust me I found out the hard way. But then just put them into a bath of water around what other people have said 160-170 F for like a minute (that allows all the liquid to reach temp) and you are done. Its really easy once you have bottled and gets all the sticky crap off the bottle too! I dont do it to my beer because it just doesnt need it, the cider and wine probably doesnt either but we just do it anyway. Hope this helps.

 

[PintOfBitter]

I've recently been doing this as well, using a pressure canner as a safeguard against flying glass.

I started a new thread on it here.

 

[RogerMcAllen]

The biggest thing with using heat on a carbonated beverage is that you will knock out all of the CO2.

What is your pH? If you can get it below 4 (citric or phosphoric acid) and add potassium sorbate you won't have to worry about growth. This is what the commercial guys do. The acids will alter your flavor, but you might be able to find something you like.

Another possibility is to sterile filter. Pass the soda through a <30um filter and into a sterilized bottle and you will remove all of the microorganisms.

 

[PintOfBitter]

not interested in potassium sorbate. my main goal is all natural ingredients. My pasteurized bottles have stood up to time so far... I think the process works.

 

[Brewin_CRAZY]

The biggest thing with using heat on a carbonated beverage is that you will knock out all of the CO2.

I have never really had this problem. Usually as long as the seal is good pasteurizing will not knock much CO2 out of solution at all. It may come out when the liquid reached temperature but as it cools the CO2 will be forced back into solution. But i would expect very little to come out of solution in a sealed container.

 

[Clayton]

do what the soda makers do add phosphoric acid to lower the ph so bactira cant grow
its the active companit of star san

 

[PintOfBitter]

The soda makers also add preservatives (sodium benzoate or potassium sorbate) - the low pH alone won't kill all types of bacteria, or creations such as vinegar would not be possible. Star San disrupts the bacterial cell walls with low pH coupled with a detergent. If the pH of soda alone would kill cells, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to be drinking it.

The heat will knock a lot of CO2 out of solution, and that is the reason bottles explode if you heat them too high. The thermal expansion of the liquid has almost nothing to do with it. As soon as the bottles are chilled, the CO2 dissolves right back in.

There's a very practical reason to want to pasteurize bottles (eliminate preservatives), and the process is totally doable at home with the right controls in place.

 

[letsbrew]

i made this, i put beer bottles in my BK filled with water, warm the water at 73 celsius degrees, wait for 10-30 min, drain the hot water, add water at room temp (use a hose to fill the BK from the bottom) wait 10-20 min, drain the water, add cold water around 10 celsius degrees, wait 10-20 min (fill from the bottom) drain the cold water. So have to have your bottles well capped because co2 expands with warm temps also use new bottle if you can they resist more pressure. The beer has to be drink maybe between 1-3 months due to dead yeast but with the experimenst i have made i have drunk them in 1 month with no off flavor by autolysis

 

[letsbrew]

also put a false botton (this way the beer is not touching the BK bottom)

 

[audger]

Maybe you can connect the out post on the keg to a copper coil submerged in boiling water, then the other end can be connected to the outpost on a second keg that's been purged with CO2and has the relief valve stuck open? Not sure about contact time. Directly heating the keg seems like a poor idea due to pressure build up.

i kind of like that idea. you would still need some way to pasturize the keg itself first though.

i would think you could set up a keg inline with a pump and heat exchanger and just circulate the contents of the keg untill the whole thing has been above 145F for 30 minutes, or 165 for 30 seconds, for a standard 5-log reduction in microbial count (FDA recomended times). i would probably leave the pressure release open while doing this, and have it on CO2 before it starts to cool down (cooling down causes negative pressure, which could suck unclean air in).

The beer has to be drink maybe between 1-3 months due to dead yeast but with the experimenst i have made i have drunk them in 1 month with no off flavor by autolysis

not exactly sure what the benefit of this is, then, because my beer that is not pasturized is still good and drinkable 6-12 months from bottling. im not interested in reducing my shelf life by 5 to 10 times.

also that cooling cycle you describe is not necessary. holding the beer at temperature for longer is a good thing. i would just heat them up and store them after. no need to force chill and possibly heat-stress the bottles, or submerge them in non-pasturized water that could possibly get past incompltely sealing caps while the bottles are contracting.

 

[JeepDiver]

I'm too lazy to look for it, but there is a big thread on pasteurizing to stop fermentation in the Cider fourm, may want to look over there

 

[letsbrew]

yes it means a lot of work, but im afraid of taking the warm bottles (they expands around 4mm (the liquid) ) so cos i have no enough room i have to store the bottles inmediately so i prefer to move them already cold-colded


i made this for experiment first and after for an overcarbonated beer. i vent the excess of co2 i recapped and parteurized them so the carbonation stopped

 

[TheCIASentMe]

Yeast dies between the temperatures of 120F to 140F, depending on the yeast strain. So you could actually use a far lower temperature in order to pasteurize your beer.

The trade off is time. If you have a large enough slow cooker (or a fancy enough stove top) you could pasteurize at 140F for 45 minutes or 145F for 30 minutes and achieve the same effect with less risk of bottle bombs (and less flavor change due to high temperatures) as pasteurizing at 170F.

Using an oven could also work, but on a lot of ovens the lowest setting is closer to 270F.

 

[audger]

pasturization isnt primarily to kill the yeast , but to kill everything else living in the beer to extend shelf life and safety.

 

[TheCIASentMe]

pasturization isnt primarily to kill the yeast , but to kill everything else living in the beer to extend shelf life and safety.

145 degrees for 30 minutes is proven to pasteurize milk to 99.999%. I think his sodas will be fine at that temperature.

 

[letsbrew]

nice if at that temp criters can die thats excellent but now i have no bad batches (thats cool!) but i will do some test to see the shelf life of the product (with dead yeast on the bottle) i know with filrtered beer pasteurization will give less shelflife but more shelflife compared with unfiltered and pasteurized beers. =))