Help me take my BIAB system up to the next level

[zacster]

I currently have a Blichmann 10g kettle and a Wilser bag, but not much else specific to BIAB. I use my high-output kitchen stove to provide the heat, and use Beersmith to calculate the water temp needed to get the mash temp right. I lift the bag out manually and place it in a big tray (my equipment storage tray!) with a cookie sheet angled on a pan, rinse grains with a portion of water withheld from the mash and pour it back into the kettle. It's worked for many, many batches and I made some really good brew with it. Efficiency has ranged from 72 to 80%.

I'd like to do a non-intrusive upgrade to this setup and I'm not sure what to do next. Recirculate with a pump attached to the bottom valve so I can do away with the rinse step? Add a controlled electric heating element so I can keep mash temps constant without the blanket? Something simple like a sous vide? Add a basket? No pulleys as I have a microwave above the stove and have no place to attach them.

I'm not looking to spend a lot of money as I'm not even sure how much brewing I'll do. I haven't touched the equipment in 3 years now but I've got the itch again. I see Blichmann has upgrades specific to their equipment, but they are expensive, as was my kettle.

Any advice appreciated.

 

[MaxStout]

You could get a low-cost propane burner, like a Bayou Classic for around $60. Then you could brew outdoors or in a garage and set up a pulley system. No more messing with pans and rinsing, just let the bag hang and drain while you bring the wort to a boil. Wilser sells a nice ratchet pulley that will make it easy to hoist out and suspend the bag.

 

[Bobby_M]

An upgrade would be to convert to electric and move to a place that can accommodate an overhead lift.

 

[madscientist451]

Do you have a dollar amount you want to spend?
A simple upgrade would be to get a cheap 4-5 gallon pot. Put your "sparge water" in that, and get it up to temp while your mash is going. Pull the bag when your mash is done and drop it in your smaller pot, fire up the heat on the main pot while you stir your grains in the sparge pot.
If you are considering getting a controlled heating element, re circulation pumps and things like that,
you may want to take that cash and get a small freezer for temperature controlled fermentation if you don't have that yet. If you don't have kegs yet, I would advise getting some and a refrigerator or freezer to keep them in before spending money on wort-making gear.
I have a ton of brewing stuff and I'm at the point where I want to keep things simple, have minimal items to clean but still make good beer. I've abandoned mashing in a cooler and batch/fly sparging and gone back to BIAB on the stove, (where I started) and dunk sparging in a side pot.
Having said all that, if I suddenly had $1,000 to $1500 to spend, I'd consider an off the shelf, 220V eBIAB system.

 

[myndflyte]

I second the pulley system. I'm a lift and squeeze kind of guy and wouldn't be able to do it without that pulley.

 

[RM-MN]

I think that simplicity is the key for BIAB. Additional equipment does not equal simplicity with the exception of getting your own mill. With a Corona mill set very tight you can mill your grain so that the conversion happens so quickly that you can dispense with the blanket and shorten the mash period. I recommend a 30 minute mash because that time is needed for flavor extraction as conversion can be over much quicker. With that very finely milled grain your efficiency will go up, probably up to 80% with full volume/no sparge so you can avoid the potential mess of the sparge step. With a sparge you can reach efficiencies into the 90% plus range.

Noting your location, using a propane burner may not be possible and you may not have a garage to brew/store equipment in. If you do, then the suggestions to move out of the kitchen make sense.

 

[wilserbrewer]

You may be able to place a pulley hook that will be out of sight when not brewing.

Perhaps place a pulley attachment point inside the cabinet above the stove, or perhaps just above the cabinet in the wall, run a cord over the top front edge of the cabinet. With A pulley you could sparge directly over the kettle and not need the tray.

Will your kettle fit in your oven if you remove the shelves? Perhaps easier and better to maintain mash temp in a warm oven than a blanket.

Perhaps I’m no help, all my suggestions are for simplicity and that may not be what you want.

 

[j1laskey]

If you do not already have a wort chiller I would purchase that first. The amount of time and energy you can save with an efficient chiller is worth the investment.

 

[myndflyte]

If you do not already have a wort chiller I would purchase that first. The amount of time and energy you can save with an efficient chiller is worth the investment.

That's true. And if you have the money, I'd suggest the Hydra chiller from Jaded. So much better than the standard chiller.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Unless you have a dedicated brewing spot, a “next level” system will also be more gear to set up, tear down clean and store.

It is personal preference of course, but simple has its merits imo.

 

[j1laskey]

That's true. And if you have the money, I'd suggest the Hydra chiller from Jaded. So much better than the standard chiller.

HA!

After 15 years of brewing and using my "cheap" homemade 25 foot copper coil chiller, I just received my Hydra last week!

I can't wait to use that bad boy. 5-6 gallons of wort to 68F in 3-5 minutes!

From every review I've read, it seems as if it is a life changer!

 

[drx2]

HA!

After 15 years of brewing and using my "cheap" homemade 25 foot copper coil chiller, I just received my Hydra last week!

I can't wait to use that bad boy. 5-6 gallons of wort to 68F in 3-5 minutes!

From every review I've read, it seems as if it is a life changer!

I used my Hydra for the first time yesterday. What a difference. Got down to 61 degrees in 7 minutes. I was using a cooler filled with water/ice as a reservoir, and a 1/4 horsepower pump.

 

[zacster]

Hmmm. I guess I should have made clear that I have:
1. A wort chiller (DIY with lots of copper)
2. A fully temp controlled fridge/fermentation system (I ferment pilsners starting at 45f.)
3. No desire to install a pulley (I did say that, didn't I?)
4. No desire to brew outdoors (even though I have a backyard and deck in NYC). I looked at the banjo burners a few years ago and decided I'd rather be inside.
5. Stir Plate (made from a computer fan)
6. Just about any piece of gear that would be needed for 5 gal BIAB on a stove top.

But what I DON'T have is any electric devices that make brewing require less watching and fussing. And that is what I'm asking.

The Hydra sounds interesting, my coil doesn't work well in the summer as the water temps are too high. I run it through ice with only moderate success.

But really, I'm looking to change specifically my BIAB mashing system. Everything else is pretty well covered. And a pulley is just out of the question...

 

[Bubman]

Have you looked at any of the all in one electric systems like the grainfather or the new Anvil Foundry?

 

[myndflyte]

HA!

After 15 years of brewing and using my "cheap" homemade 25 foot copper coil chiller, I just received my Hydra last week!

I can't wait to use that bad boy. 5-6 gallons of wort to 68F in 3-5 minutes!

From every review I've read, it seems as if it is a life changer!

It really is. In these summer months, I use an 800 GPH aquarium in a cooler filled with ice water. It's powerfull enough to get it through all the copper. I usually wait until its under 100F before I recirculate it back into the cooler but that other hot waste water can be saved for cleaning.

 

[zacster]

Have you looked at any of the all in one electric systems like the grainfather or the new Anvil Foundry?

This is what got me started at thinking about upgrading my system. But I look at these and think that it takes all the fun out making the beer. Just add water and it does the rest. And besides, the Blichmann kettle I have already cost me money and there are fittings from Blichmann themselves that can be added. But the additions are expensive too.

I'm basically a cheapskate with my hobbies, and always a DIYer. If I can add a pump and a coil to my kettle for under $100, I would do it. If I need to spend $300-$500 just to add an electric heater and regulator, it isn't going to happen. My fermentation fridge is a dorm fridge with an STC-1000 controller that I wired myself and put into an old portable hard drive box. It works like a charm and it cost maybe $30.

 

[RM-MN]

This is what got me started at thinking about upgrading my system. But I look at these and think that it takes all the fun out making the beer. Just add water and it does the rest. And besides, the Blichmann kettle I have already cost me money and there are fittings from Blichmann themselves that can be added. But the additions are expensive too.

I'm basically a cheapskate with my hobbies, and always a DIYer. If I can add a pump and a coil to my kettle for under $100, I would do it. If I need to spend $300-$500 just to add an electric heater and regulator, it isn't going to happen. My fermentation fridge is a dorm fridge with an STC-1000 controller that I wired myself and put into an old portable hard drive box. It works like a charm and it cost maybe $30.

With what you already have, a sous vide may fit the bill. It can heat the water to strike temp so it is ready to go when you are. That's the part where watching is normally needed and is fussy. The other part of BIAB brewing that is fussy is at the beginning of the boil where the buildup of foam makes me worry about boil-over. I don't think there is much way to avoid being watchful there. A thermometer that has an alarm can let you be doing other things until the temperature approaches the boil and warn you that it is time to pay attention.

 

[madscientist451]

But what I DON'T have is any electric devices that make brewing require less watching and fussing. And that is what I'm asking.

I use a piece of closed cell foam as pot insulation when I BIAB. I put it on after I heat up to strike temp. The smooth top range holds heat for a while and along with the insulation there's nothing more to do. No watching and fussing at all. Sometimes I stir every 20 minutes, sometimes I just do other things and leave it alone.
The new Blichmann power controller is $149. Adding the element and pump and you'll be in the $500 range?
I'd still say put that cash into some kegs and a small chest freezer you don't have that.

 

[LittleRiver]

...what I DON'T have is any electric devices that make brewing require less watching and fussing. And that is what I'm asking...

[re: all in one systems] ...I look at these and think that it takes all the fun out making the beer...

...If I need to spend $300-$500 just to add an electric heater and regulator, it isn't going to happen....

A thermometer with built in hi/lo temperature alarms and timer is one upgrade you can make that seems to fit all your criteria:

• it will eliminate much of the need to watch your brew kettle (you can do other things during temperature ramp ups and downs because the alarm will let you know when your target temp has been reached)
• it's an upgrade to your rig, but it doesn't automate to the point that you are taken out of the loop
• it will not break your bank account

Look at the ChefAlarm, with the optional 12inch probe.

The only weakness I know of with that unit is that the probe to wire junction can't get wet. You can be careful not to get the wire wet, or you can waterproof it by encasing the cable with PTFE shrink tubing (McMaster part #75665K85), using a moisture seal adhesive (McMaster #1428T1) at the probe/cable junction. That shrink tubing is high temp, so you have to use a flame to shrink it. I waterproofed mine this way 4 years ago and I haven't had any problems with it.

 

[zacster]

I'd still say put that cash into some kegs and a small chest freezer you don't have that.

I have kegs, and I have my dorm fridge with a controller that works well and fits kegs and fermentation bottles, but not simultaneously. I don't have a space for a chest freezer.

A thermometer with built in hi/lo temperature alarms and timer is one upgrade you can make that seems to fit all your criteria:

Hmmm, I have a BBQ thermometer with remote monitoring. I could maybe use that.

I think the sous vide may be what I end up with. I could of course use it for actual cooking too.

 

[ebbelwoi]

I brew with an 800w Anova sous vide cooker on my stovetop, and it works well for me. I usually do two- to four-gallon batches. At some point, I might consider upgrading to the pro-level Anova or something similar. Might even use it for the boil. It's just so handy. I can reach and maintain mash temps very easily, and step mashes are a breeze, too.

 

[zacster]

I'm thinking I'll go with sous vide after I do my first new batch in 3 years with my old method.

 

[RM-MN]

I have kegs, and I have my dorm fridge with a controller that works well and fits kegs and fermentation bottles, but not simultaneously. I don't have a space for a chest freezer.


Hmmm, I have a BBQ thermometer with remote monitoring. I could maybe use that.

I think the sous vide may be what I end up with. I could of course use it for actual cooking too.

BBQ thermometers are not known for accuracy. Go ahead and try yours against a known accurate one in the range you intend to mash.

 

[Yorkshire lad]

You can get a sous vide for around $50 and a 12v recirc pump for $12. A power adapter is about another $15, tops.
Stove top supplemental heat gets 8 Gallons of water up to mashing temp reasonable quickly, and the sous vide holds the desired temp even without the Brew Kettle lid. I put my SV in a hop basket to keep the grain away. Step mashing, as previously mentioned, is easy to accomplish too, if desired. I usually transfer my bag of mash into a jockey pot with a raised collender, then pour a couple of kettles of 170F water to sparge. press with a pan lid and add the squeezins to the BK.
ps. If you are afraid of boil overs, get some foam control and add a half dropper to the wert, then have yourself a homebrew.

 

[zacster]

You can get a sous vide for around $50 and a 12v recirc pump for $12. A power adapter is about another $15, tops.
Stove top supplemental heat gets 8 Gallons of water up to mashing temp reasonable quickly, and the sous vide holds the desired temp even without the Brew Kettle lid. I put my SV in a hop basket to keep the grain away. Step mashing, as previously mentioned, is easy to accomplish too, if desired. I usually transfer my bag of mash into a jockey pot with a raised collender, then pour a couple of kettles of 170F water to sparge. press with a pan lid and add the squeezins to the BK.
ps. If you are afraid of boil overs, get some foam control and add a half dropper to the wert, then have yourself a homebrew.

The Sous Vide came today and now that I see the size it looks like it'll be a good fit. I tested the thing with some steaks, and not so sure I liked the results. The steaks were perfectly cooked and then charred on the grill, but overall I found the taste to lack the bite of a real grilled or pan cooked steak. My wife and daughter both preferred the grilled steaks too, but overall we still liked the sous vide steak, it is just different. I read that using butter in a pan gives it a better crust so I'll try that next time.

I'm thinking with the sous vide I should first get my water up to temp for dough-in, turn on the sous-vide to the desired mash temp and add the grain? I may lower the dough-in temp though since I can always raise it with the sous vide it its too low, but not so easily lower it except with additional water. I always keep some water out of the mash to sparge.

I'm still a few weeks away from my first brew with it, but I'll report back with the results.

 

[BandonBrewingCo]

I used my Hydra for the first time yesterday. What a difference. Got down to 61 degrees in 7 minutes. I was using a cooler filled with water/ice as a reservoir, and a 1/4 horsepower pump.

I wish they exported to Europe! I know though, for dudes like them and Wilser, exporting to the EU on a commercial scale would be such a pain in the hole as to render it pointless (not to mention expensive).

My (overly complicated plan) is to set up a whirlpooling system and whirlpool around the chiller (in a direction opposite to the IC). In winter it's so cold outside I'll freeze a fermenter bucket full of water, pump the IC back into that after the wort gets to 40C or so and then switch to just gravity feeding the ice water through the chiller.

The pump is also great for getting plenty of splash/aeration while filling the fermenter. Also for getting the last few liters out instead of relying on the dip tube acting as a siphon. Also, the whirlpool itself will be nice in creating a trub cone.

 

[zacster]

I used my sous vide for the second time today, this time on some salmon filets. No thanks. The fish just turned to mush.

I still haven't started brewing again, mostly due to the weather. It is too nice outside to do this. There's a second reason though, I'm scared that having a keg of beer in the house will lead to weight gain. Believe it or not, it isn't easy to give away beer. I had a party once at my house with a keg and it was barely touched. I had a mantle lined with single malt scotch from all of the regions and you can guess what people drank. Speaking of which, I think it may be time for some...

 

[GoeHaarden]

The only weakness I know of with that unit is that the probe to wire junction can't get wet.

FYI https://www.thermoworks.com/TX-1002X-NP

 

[LittleRiver]

FYI https://www.thermoworks.com/TX-1002X-NP

When I bought my ChefAlarm thermometer I called Thermoworks and talked to them about which "Pro Series" probe would be best for brewing. They recommended the straight 12" probe, so the probe/cable junction could be positioned well above the surface of the wort. So that's what I went with, and added my own high temperature shrink wrap as insurance to make sure the junction stays dry. As I remember it they did not recommend the sous vide waterproof probe due to the acidity of wort(?).

Thermoworks does make a wort proof probe that works with any of their thermometers that take type K probes, such as the ThermaQ.

 

[GoeHaarden]

As I remember it they did not recommend the sous vide waterproof probe due to the acidity of wort(?).

Yeah. Just throwing that out there. I've used the sous vide probe for about two years with the dot, and no issues even with boiling. I think they only warranty it with water, but they go on sale frequently and I think I paid $12. Plus I'm a sucker for jelly-bellies...

 

[LittleRiver]

I should probably get the sous vide probe as a backup, and to use for sous vide. Thanks for the tip!

 

[wilserbrewer]

I wish they exported to Europe! I know though, for dudes like them and Wilser, exporting to the EU .....

“I’m a dude”, though not a young dude lol

https://www.google.com/search?q=all the young dudes mott the hoople&tbm=vid

Who said I don’t export to EU?
10 bucks US added shipping is all it takes.

 

[craigmw]

I currently have a Blichmann 10g kettle and a Wilser bag, but not much else specific to BIAB. I use my high-output kitchen stove to provide the heat, and use Beersmith to calculate the water temp needed to get the mash temp right. I lift the bag out manually and place it in a big tray (my equipment storage tray!) with a cookie sheet angled on a pan, rinse grains with a portion of water withheld from the mash and pour it back into the kettle. It's worked for many, many batches and I made some really good brew with it. Efficiency has ranged from 72 to 80%.

My question for you: what do you want to improve?

72 to 80% seems pretty respectable. I do recirculating BIAB and my efficiencies are in that range (though they occasionally go a bit higher).

Maybe you might get better mash control going with a PID controlled electric system, but do you really need to make that investment? Are your beers reproducible? Are you getting consistent attenuation? Maybe a better investment might be a new or better grain mill. How about your fermentation temperature control?

How about your water? Perhaps an RO system would be the most important improvement.

Do you want to shorten your brew day? Perhaps better wort chilling might be the next investment?

I am all for improvements in the brewing process, but the first question should always be "What do I really need to fix?"

 

[BandonBrewingCo]

“I’m a dude”, though not a young dude lol

https://www.google.com/search?q=all the young dudes mott the hoople&tbm=vid

Who said I don’t export to EU?
10 bucks US added shipping is all it takes.

You do and I have bought from you and am very happy with everything! I just meant in a commercial sense to our homebrew suppliers

 

[zacster]

My question for you: what do you want to improve?

72 to 80% seems pretty respectable. I do recirculating BIAB and my efficiencies are in that range (though they occasionally go a bit higher).

Maybe you might get better mash control going with a PID controlled electric system, but do you really need to make that investment? Are your beers reproducible? Are you getting consistent attenuation? Maybe a better investment might be a new or better grain mill. How about your fermentation temperature control?

How about your water? Perhaps an RO system would be the most important improvement.

Do you want to shorten your brew day? Perhaps better wort chilling might be the next investment?

I am all for improvements in the brewing process, but the first question should always be "What do I really need to fix?"

Let's see, I don't want an electric system mostly due to cost, my brews have been very consistent, attenuation is pretty much spot on, I use the store mill so maybe that would be a good investment to get a finer grind, I have a fridge with a controller that works well. NYC has the best water in the world but whether it is good for beer is a different story.

Shortening my day is one goal, and I could go with a large outdoor burner. I calculated the savings though and while it will make it quicker, it wouldn't be that much. I have a DIY copper wort chiller, so maybe that could be improved but I take pride in what I made even if it is ugly.

I think my goal is to just make it easier and a more consistent process with less manual handling. With that in mind I thought a recirculating pump would do away with the sparge/rinsing that I do. Even a simple thing like a basket would make it easier, I currently wrap the bag around my hand and lift. Not exactly an elegant method. The sous vide that I bought will take care of having to wrap with towels and an old fleece jacket, which meant nobody could use the stove while I'm brewing, not that I want anybody to do that anyway.

In the meantime I started this thread back in July and I still haven't brewed! I've retired but it just hasn't bubbled up to my list yet of things needing to be done. A lot of people are waiting, like my adult children that have a new found taste for beer. Maybe next week...

 

[RM-MN]

I use the store mill so maybe that would be a good investment to get a finer grind,

Shortening my day is one goal,

These two items are quite closely related. By having my own mill and milling the grain much finer than most LHBS, I get full conversion quickly so my mash gets shortened to 30 minutes. That's half an hour savings. I then go on to only boil for 30 minutes instead of the 60 to 90 that a lot of brewers do. That's another half to a full hour savings in time. I do boil on the kitchen stove so I have to wait a bit for the wort to boil. I sparge during that wait but if I were wanting to really speed things up I would get a heat stick to add more heat to the wort. That might save me another 10 to 15 minutes.

I don't use a wort chiller but that could be another time saver. If one wort chiller cools quickly, two would do it quicker. Make one smaller so it fits inside the other.

Instead of chilling my beer really quickly to pitching temps, I set the pot into a tub of water and walk away to do other things. In 20 to 30 minutes, I pull the pot out, dump the tub and refill with cold water, them put the pot back in. It usually takes three times to chill but each time frees up my time to do other things and the timing of the first is the only critical one. The rest could be 20 minutes or 2 hours as I have stopped the hop isomerization by the quick chilling of the first tub of water.

 

[Yorkshire lad]

I used my sous vide for the second time today, this time on some salmon filets. No thanks. The fish just turned to mush.

I still haven't started brewing again, mostly due to the weather. It is too nice outside to do this. There's a second reason though, I'm scared that having a keg of beer in the house will lead to weight gain. Believe it or not, it isn't easy to give away beer. I had a party once at my house with a keg and it was barely touched. I had a mantle lined with single malt scotch from all of the regions and you can guess what people drank. Speaking of which, I think it may be time for some...

Maybe you need some new friends, Zackster

 

[Baglorious]

Many good suggestions, and it seems you may have gone the sous vide route, and there seem lots of possibilities with that.

If you haven't reviewed this thread... do so. Countertop brutus 20: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/countertop-brutus-20.131411/

Not suggesting you replicate it entirely, of course... but perhaps some of the ideas could be applicable. For example, heat the water initially using your stove to get to strike temp, using a cooler mash tun elevated next to your boil kettle (sitting upon a 5 gal bucket?), the cheapest (acceptable) recirculating pump you can find... use your sous vide in your BK to maintain temps (or step mash if you're fancy)... and off you go. Equivalent of the countertop Brutus 20 without trying to convert your kettle to electric.

This surely isn't "less complicated." Minimally, you're adding a cooler mash tun, and a pump. (And using the the BK and sous vide you already own.) However, there are always several really cheap cooler mash tuns on Facebook Marketplace where I live... and probably where you live as well. You probably can scramble up a 5 gallon bucket to set the cooler mash tun on... and you don't need too much else.

You get the benefits of recirculation (the automatic vorlauf), the speed of BIAB... and being able to drain your mash fully, without needing a hoist or hanging/draining a bag. (And I find it easier to dump/clean a cooler.)

I've got Wilser bags (they're great), and have BIAB'ed. I now use a 2 vessel setup, like the Brutus 20 (but mine is larger, 20 gallon kettle, bigger cooler, etc.).

And... you can actually use your wilser bag (or equivalent) in your cooler to serve as a the false bottom / straining mechanism. Agian, pros and cons to that... but I still use my wilser bag inside my cooler for several reasons. ;-)

SO... plenty of options. If you're keeping it simple, the separate kettle option (with dunk sparging) as suggested by madscientist451 might be the best bet. If you're OK going a bit more complicated to get some advantages.... incorporate some of the Brutus 20 ideas as simply as possible. I really enjoy the two vessel system, and after a few brews, still think it is pretty darn simple.

 

[Cato1507]

I currently have a Blichmann 10g kettle and a Wilser bag, but not much else specific to BIAB. I use my high-output kitchen stove to provide the heat, and use Beersmith to calculate the water temp needed to get the mash temp right. I lift the bag out manually and place it in a big tray (my equipment storage tray!) with a cookie sheet angled on a pan, rinse grains with a portion of water withheld from the mash and pour it back into the kettle. It's worked for many, many batches and I made some really good brew with it. Efficiency has ranged from 72 to 80%.

I'd like to do a non-intrusive upgrade to this setup and I'm not sure what to do next. Recirculate with a pump attached to the bottom valve so I can do away with the rinse step? Add a controlled electric heating element so I can keep mash temps constant without the blanket? Something simple like a sous vide? Add a basket? No pulleys as I have a microwave above the stove and have no place to attach them.

I'm not looking to spend a lot of money as I'm not even sure how much brewing I'll do. I haven't touched the equipment in 3 years now but I've got the itch again. I see Blichmann has upgrades specific to their equipment, but they are expensive, as was my kettle.

Any advice appreciated.

It's not an inexpensive hobby. I started out on stovetop then went to an induction burner, a little larger kettle, and ratcheting pulley for BIAB in the garage.

Last year I went to a Blichmann boil coil ekettle, Brew Commander, and Riptide pump. Not inexpensive but really makes my brew days simple, as I'm not continually babysitting the kettle and monitoring temps.

 

[beerisyummy]

I don't like to brew in my garage, I want to brew in my kitchen, even though it involves set-up and take-down each time. A 10 gallon pot with a 3500W induction cooker (needing a 120 to 220V adapter) and a Wilser bag is what works for me. I dunk-sparge and I cool with an Exchilerator. I think I'm going to buy a grain mill, and then I'll be set for a while!