Fullers recipes for ESB/Pride/Chiswick, Imperials, NEIPA - from the horse's mouth

[ESBrewer]

Thanks, some great information again. I have another bottle of 1981 waiting in the fridge, need to try it some day together with the new one when the yeast has settled appropriately. It's bottle conditioned & exported.

 

[Hanglow]

Interesting that they use the municipal water, I know some water has great variation but i see from the water report for their area that it doesn't really vary very much, which i suppose makes more sense for a city as large as london. So with fairly low-ish levels of sulphate and chloride they really just need to get a handle on the alkalinity then add more salts if needed

http://twmediadevcdn.azureedge.net/waterquality/WQ Report_Z0347_Chiswick & Hammersmith.pdf


I have a bottle of vintage in my fridge from last year, I was going to try it against a fresh bottle from this year and keep another one for a similar tasting next year. I don't think I can really be bothered ageing them much more than that!

Incidentally , when I tasted the rebirth version of ESB at the same time as current ESB, this is what I said about it

"
in summary, the rebirth was better but they also bore similarities - typical bit of fullers marmalade, the minerally dryishness of the finish were exactly the same. rebirth had the fresher/more floral nose and taste and was slightly thinner.

"

 

[ESBrewer]

I'd not heard before that one reason for using flaked maize was to help finings to work, and he thought it "opened out" the flavour a bit.

I've read from some sources, that the original idea behind maize would have been to dilute not only the body (and cut costs), but also to dilute the high amount of protein in the barley, that would cause haze. So the beers with maize were considered visually more appealing (low protein wort could also mean that less finings are needed to produce clear wort). Never really heard that maize could directly affect the finings but who knows? Today, especially the top quality British/German malting barley is so low in protein that this type of protein dilution is probably useless. And the methods to fine & filter beers have probably developed from those times.

They centrifuge out all the yeast, then add back 0.5m cells/ml for conditioning where appropriate, it is the production strain in the bottles.

Many British ale breweries seem to be quite pedant about the procedure of dropping the yeast, often very soon post-fermentation or even few gravity points before the fermenetation has finished, indicating that the exact amount of yeast is probably important for the development of taste. I have also noticed (in my very limited nr of brews) that dropping excess yeast by not only cold crashing but using gelatin can lead to good results, although this time when brewing the ESB clone, I think I'm going to make a small test by adding some fresh yeast to some bottles at the time of bottling.

modern single strain (which latest research suggests is a double strain)

Interesting and valuable information that it is probably not just a single strain.

The municipal water is something that Keeling also mentioned in (if I remember correctly) "Can you brew it"-podcast interview and I also immediately went to check the Chiswick water profile. My water tends to be even softer and I've found that using our water, the pH of a typical ESB mash comes to ~pH5.5 by adding just 1.33g gypsum + a hint of CaCl2 /kg grain, even without further pH adjustment.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I've read from some sources, that the original idea behind maize would have been to dilute not only the body (and cut costs), but also to dilute the high amount of protein in the barley, that would cause haze. So the beers with maize were considered visually more appealing (low protein wort could also mean that less finings are needed to produce clear wort). Never really heard that maize could directly affect the finings but who knows? Today, especially the top quality British/German malting barley is so low in protein that this type of protein dilution is probably useless.

Also mentioned that. Although CAMRA focussed on adjuncts as a cost-cutting measure, when you look into it the costs don't look so different - certainly for sugars, there were good brewing reasons for doing it that way.

Many British ale breweries seem to be quite pedant about the procedure of dropping the yeast, often very soon post-fermentation or even few gravity points before the fermenetation has finished, indicating that the exact amount of yeast is probably important for the development of taste.

I think it's more that the British tend to think more about conditioning than other brewers since most of their output (traditionally at least) was in cask. You get very rapid feedback from your own tied pubs if the conditioning is "wrong"! And then that's followed through with their approach to bottling - there's a fair bit of pressure from CAMRA to at least have "premium" bottles as bottle-conditioned even though it's a complete nightmare since so much can happen once bottles leave the brewery. So you try to control as much as possible what happens in the brewery.

Interesting and valuable information that it is probably not just a single strain.

Meh - I suspect it's like a lot of these yeasts, you'll get something that looks like 3 strains using standard microbiology and 10 strains with DNA analysis. Whether that makes a material difference to the beer, I wouldn't be so sure. From Fuller's point of view, the big change was in 1976 when they went to conicals and went from three ("microbiology") strains down to one.

 

[divrack]

Also mentioned that. Although CAMRA focussed on adjuncts as a cost-cutting measure, when you look into it the costs don't look so different - certainly for sugars, there were good brewing reasons for doing it that way.



I think it's more that the British tend to think more about conditioning than other brewers since most of their output (traditionally at least) was in cask. You get very rapid feedback from your own tied pubs if the conditioning is "wrong"! And then that's followed through with their approach to bottling - there's a fair bit of pressure from CAMRA to at least have "premium" bottles as bottle-conditioned even though it's a complete nightmare since so much can happen once bottles leave the brewery. So you try to control as much as possible what happens in the brewery.



Meh - I suspect it's like a lot of these yeasts, you'll get something that looks like 3 strains using standard microbiology and 10 strains with DNA analysis. Whether that makes a material difference to the beer, I wouldn't be so sure. From Fuller's point of view, the big change was in 1976 when they went to conicals and went from three ("microbiology") strains down to one.

I always read your posts when i see there is a reply to some thread I've been on add they rarely disappoint
You got a book or a blog going on? Plenty of good geekery in my humble opinion.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I always read your posts when i see there is a reply to some thread I've been on add they rarely disappoint
You got a book or a blog going on? Plenty of good geekery in my humble opinion.

Too kind. Nope, this is all I've got...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

yesterday at BrewCon with John Keeling

There's a pretty low quality recording of his talk here - unfortunately the slides are barely visible but there wasn't that much on them.

 

[divrack]

Too kind. Nope, this is all I've got...

Although i do take umbrage with you claiming Northern.. being a Scottish Finn, to me youre a southern nancy

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Hey, if we're going on blood then I'm mostly Scottish, including a good chunk from the Black Isle - so not that southern.... I'll give you Finland though!

 

[ESBrewer]

Now waiting for some Eskimos to join the conversation while sipping Rebirth. It's decent. I like it more than 1981. Rebirth is slightly more hop driven but the current production version is the best. It is the most balanced version (IMO).

 

[Derp]

Just read that Fuller’s have sold their brewing business to Japan’s Asahi. Sad day...

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Just read that Fuller’s have sold their brewing business to Japan’s Asahi. Sad day...

Indeed true, and indeed sad. Asahi also owns Pilsner Urquell. 2 of my 3 favorite beers are now owned by Asahi.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/finance/o...er-business-to-asahi-for-c2-a3250m/ar-BBSIuD1

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Makes sense for both parties - 23.6xEBITDA is a rich price that is hard to turn down, but they're good brands that work internationally and fit nicely with the second-best London lager brand, Meantime, that Asahi picked up as part of the fallout from the ABI/SAB merger. And it's part of a general trend with UK brewers disposing of their beer brands to concentrate on pubs serving a bigger choice of brands than the tie would allow.

 

[Hanglow]

We can look forward to some new flats in Chiswick and Marstons contract brewing Pride in ten years at least

 

[jturman35]

Ok, I can brew it! The hops could still be fine tuned slightly, but I think I will declare this one cloned because I think most people wouldn't notice the difference between this one and the original.

A generic recipe is
OG 1.057
FG 1.010-11

93.8% Crisp Best Ale Malt (Pale ale malt made of Flagon barley)
6% Fawcett Crystal malt (EBC150-175)
0.2% Crisp chocolate malt
1.3g gypsum per 1 kg of grain (powder added to the mash tun, leads to about max 300ppm sulphate in the wort)
base water is this (kloridi = chloride, alkaliteetti = alkalinity, kokonaiskovuus = total hardness)

MASH & SPARGE
65°C / 90min in an infusion mash tun
drain, then sparge only once with base water (no salts) adjusted to ~pH 6 with phosphoric acid
adjust volume / pre boil gravity with base water so that post boil the wort would have OG 1.057

Boil time 60 min

HOP SCHEDULE (all hops were whole cones inside hop bags):
60 min Target so that Beersmith estimates 26.2 IBUs
2.5 min Northdown BS estimate 4.1 IBUs (=almost 3x the amount of target)
2.5 min EKG BS estimate 1.1 IBUs
2.5 min Challenger BS estimate 4.4 IBUs (=same amount as northdown)

10 min Protafloc according to instructions

Removed bittering hop bag(target) at the end of boil. Cooled in ~15 mins to room temperature (so no whirlpool/stand but the late copper hops were still there during the rapid cooling process). Continued cooling until 15 °C using copper coil. Then removed late copper hops. Let the wort stand covered in a fridge for an hour or so. Carefully transferred the clear top phase to fermenter (5 liter glass carboy, 4+ liters of wort) and added just a little bit of boiled water to get it exactly to OG 1.057 (for me post-boil it was 1.059). Let it warm up to 17-18°C in a water bath. Then pitched the yeast slurry from a 0.4 liter starter of wyeast 1968. Fermentation took place submerged in a water bath. Temperature was controlled with some ice elements. Water temperature 17-->21°C gradient, time to reach FG was approximately 4-5 days. Then 2 more days at 21°C ('diacetyl rest'). Then cooled the primary down to 0.5°C in the fridge. 2 days there. Then transferred to two secondary vessels (2 liters each) with virtually no head space and added dry hops (cones in a weighted bag). Target ~1g/liter. Also tried 2g/l but that was probably a bit too much. I kept secondaries at 20°C for 2 days, then 3+ days at 0.5°C. Then removed the hop bags and added a little bit of NBS silica gel finings adjunct and after a while 0.15g/liter of dissolved gelatin. 3+ days again at 0.5°C. Bottled in Fuller's bottles and carbonated to 2.1 vols with boiled glucose solution. 25 days in a dark place at 21°C, then chilled down to serving temperature. On the left, my bottle carbonated version, on the right Fuller's bottled, exported ESB. The Target aroma is still more pungent in Fuller's beer compared to my 1g/l and the hops may express citrus a little bit more. But they are very close now, it is not easy to distinguish these two beers.

View attachment 567285

It has been a fascinating project (my first beer as a homebrewer) and I need to thank everybody for guidance and especially the Fuller's people who have kindly revealed how they do it. I think I will brew some bottles for the summer with minor modifications in hop amounts and process. I'll now turn to Bavarian wheats and some yeast work at home, although it would be nice to brew some mild bitters, too...

ESBbrewer you should start your own Fullers ESB Clone thread! This much time and effort deserves much attention!!! Thank you for sharing!!!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

And another one, a Nelson/Chinook Black IPA brewing today :

 

[couchsending]

The potassium chloride addition is interesting. Even with my horrible math that seems like a lot. Anyone care to scale that down? I don’t know their recipes or system to know water volumes.

 

[ESBrewer]

Batch volume seems to be 39000 liters so 8.1 kgs(?) probably means about 0.2 grams KCl per one liter of beer. A moderate addition to add a bit of chloride. KCl is probably anhydrous so they add 95 mg chloride per liter of beer. Base water is probably London (Chiswick) municipal water. That would mean 140-150mg/liter chloride altogether if we assume all the chloride ends up in the beer. But I wonder why they prefer potassium over calcium here ?

 

[couchsending]

Batch volume seems to be 39000 liters so 8.1 kgs(?) probably means about 0.2 grams KCl per one liter of beer. A moderate addition to add a bit of chloride. KCl is probably anhydrous so they add 95 mg chloride per liter of beer. Base water is probably London (Chiswick) municipal water. That would mean 140-150mg/liter chloride altogether if we assume all the chloride ends up in the beer. But I wonder why they prefer potassium over calcium here ?

Based on that water report Ca is somewhere between 90 and 110 right?

Lots of hops and high Cl combined with Ca over 100 can get rather chalky/mineraly/bitter. They probably want to keep the Ca down and up the Cl.

Interesting that it’s twice as much KCL as their stout recipe that’s listed in this thread.

 

[ESBrewer]

Yes could be, and of course calcium would bring the pH further down unlike potassium. So they already have enough calcium and no need to bring it further down.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

As an aside, I've just come across this on how IPA relates to Bengal Lancer :

http://thebeerboy.blogspot.com/2010/03/fullers-ipa-and-bengal-lancer-facts.html

TLDR - IPA was created by Reg Drury at 4.8% on cask using just Goldings, Lancer is a similar beer created by John Keeling and Derek Prentice tinkering, using Goldings and Fuggles in the copper and then dry-hopping with Goldings and Target (see also the main Fuller partigyle) in the FV. They were offered a small contract to do it for a UK supermarket which fell through in the end, but then it won a blind tasting for the Swedish alcohol monopoly and so it went into production. One of the comments suggests that the Swedes are now labelling Lancer as a 5.3% IPA.

The Lancer webpage lists the grist as crystal and pale, and the hops as 47IBU of Fuggles and Goldings, ABV is 5% in cask and 5.3% in bottle.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Just discovered this thread. Thanks Northern Brewer and everyone. Very enlightening

 

[deadwolfbones]

Interesting too that they're using 2015(!) Chinook.

 

[Christian_H]

Yes, the new Fuller's IPA in Sweden is the same beer as Bengal Lancer, not related to the old Fuller's IPA . Actually, we had it in Sweden a couple of years before Fuller's decided to rename it for the British market and the rest of the world. John Keenan an James May on the subject;

 

[Northern_Brewer]

George has just posted the brewsheet for Vintage Ale 2019 which has a NZ theme this year, using 7.2% Gladfield crystal from NZ (presumably the 105L standard version?) and Wai-iti, partigyled with three batches of London Pride. In case you hadn't heard, she's off to Bath in the wake of the Asahi takeover.

 

[ESBrewer]

I just tasted my latest batch of ESB. I think it is the best so far except the fact that it is too bitter since I adjusted the hops a bit and had to change to pellet hops. But 7,5% Simpon's crystal light (the authentic malt) and Fuller's yeast extracted from a bottle of exported IPA(Bengal Lancer) seemed to work very well when fermented at 18..22 deg C. I am waiting for some fresh hops (& isinglass) to arrive from UK now and will be brewing again next week. I think it will be great this time. Lighter crystal probably gives a little bit more sweetness and together with the correct yeast it gives the right kind of sweet orange marmalade. I have also simplified the temperature gradients etc.and dry hopped in primary @21-22 deg C then cold crashed & fine as briefly as possible.

 

[jturman35]

Here is my first attempt at an Fullers ESB. A little on the dark side but very good. It bad considering I have never brewed this style. Seems a tad more bitter on the back end than the Original. I wish I had one to compare. LHBS didn’t have Northdown or Target so had to substitute.

ESBbrewer how long does this beer take before it hits prime?

 

[ESBrewer]

@jturman35 Looks nice, it is probably a bit darker than mine although it could be because of the lighting. What does your grain bill look like? I haven't really conditioned it long. I think it should be fine in a couple of weeks when everything goes as expected. Next time I will make a larger batch and cut down the copper hops a bit. I have some new equipment, too. Will post how it turns out and how exactly I am doing it now.

 

[jturman35]

I used what my LHBS had on hand. As I said above I don’t recall the Fullers ESB being as bitter.

OG 1.057 FG 1.014
31 IBU
13.1 SRM
91% Maris Otter
7.9% Bairds Dark Crystal
1.4% English Chocolate

.5oz Fuggle @ 60min
.5oz EKG @15min
.28oz Northern Brewer @15min
Wyeast 1968

 

[Northern_Brewer]

From Kieran Haslett–Moore, head brewer at North End Brewery in NZ who is in London at the moment :

"One tit bit of info I picked up was that Chiswic[k] Bitter is still brewed but released under se[a]sonal alias’ now. Its currently Swing Low."