Black Deathberry melomel

[Seamonkey84]

After trying the first batch of the berry death bomm I made, I’ve come up with a blend to try for my second melomel. Still following the BOMM protocol for this.
I started this a few days ago, let’s see how this goes.
Black Deathberry BOMM
For ~3gaL batch
Day 1 Prep:
1qt yeast starter (1/2 pound honey, 1/2TBSP Fermaid-O and water to a qt plus wyeast 1388 yeast)
Put into a brew bag and bucket, 6lb triple berry blend (blackberry, blueberry, and raspberry), 3lbs strawberries. Then add 96oz black currant juice (one can of vintners harvest), and 32oz tart cherry juice. I added two crushed Campden tablets at this time while the fruit thawed. 12 hrs later I Add enough peptic enzyme for 3 gallons to the berry juice.

Day 2 (or 3)

9lbs of honey and water to 1.5 gallons, then added 1.25tsp Fermaid-K, 3/4tsp potassium bicarbonate (used a bit more than normal recipe due to high acid levels in black currant), and 3/4TBSP Fermaid-O (1/2TBSP+1tsp).
Add the honey and nutrients mix to the gallon of juice plus thawed fruit.
Before adding the quart of yeast starter, my SG read 1.130, then dropped to 1.110 after adding it (assuming the starter solution was about to ferment dry).
I’ve already done the second Fermaid O additions at 1.080, and will again at 1.040.
I’m pretty sure this won’t ferment completely dry, but I’m aiming for a final gravity of ~1.020 so I’ll prob have to add another pound or two of honey at the end.
Edit:just rechecked the amounts I added, and realized that the 3/4tsp of potassium bicarbonate I added is the normal amount required by the recipe. I forgot to add the extra 1/4tsp that I was planning to account for the acidic juice. Oh well, it’s going strong, I’ll adjust to taste at the end if need be.

 

[SKBugs]

How does the acid affect the fermentation? Or is that Ph? Or are they the same thing?

 

[Seamonkey84]

Acids effect ph, and too low of a ph can stress yeast, or make the drink very tart/sour. Different acids have different ph as well. Straight Black currant juice has 210% of your daily value of Vit C per serving, so very tart. The batch I tried of a blend similar to this was on the edge of being too tart for the sweetness level.

 

[SKBugs]

Hence the sweetening at the end? I really like the look of this recipe, it's gonna finish at 16% I think? It's gonna have a fair bit to it.

 

[Seamonkey84]

Yes, when following the protocol, the yeasts stops at 16% when the honey is loaded up front. I haven’t done it, but if you start with lower gravity and step feed once it’s dry, It’s been pushed to 19%. The sweetness level of the original recipe was just a bit more than I liked it (1.030), while the 3:1 blend of Bray’s Death Berry BOMM and more black currant juice during secondary was about perfect for sweetness but on the tart side. I’m aiming for lower final gravity than the original Berry death and trying it before adding more honey. Also, I went with a wildflower honey that had a decent spicy aftertaste, hoping it’ll add to the flavor at the end. I left the strawberries in this batch, and added the cherry juice, but I’m already planning on just swapping out strawberries with cherries completely for the next batch, prob a sweet/tart cherry blend since that all I can find. Yes, it already smells so good that I know I’m making another one right after this. I currently only have two 3gaL carboys, and my buckets are not big enough for 5gal batches.
It’s on the 5th day, and it is at 1.030 this morning when I degassed it. I’m going to start sampling it soon so I know when to pull the fruit bag, but I’ll prob leave it in for 10 days.

 

[Seamonkey84]

This morning I pulled the fruit bag (day 10) and a put a sample into the fridge to cold crash for testing tonight. Total volume without fruit is now ~3.5gal. I can already tell this is going to be tasty, but not what I was looking for compared to my previous blending. This batch is deeper colored and flavored than the original berry death, but not like the deep color or full flavor like a merlot or cab I was going for.
Sample of berry death BOMM I made

A sample of this current batch (different lighting situation and it’s not completely cleared yet)

This is the Black Deathberry I made before this batch, just poured this to have with dinner. I’m now trying to replicate it without blending at secondary.


Now after dinner:
By my calculations (here we go, doing math past midnight after that full glass of mead)... the blend I’m trying to replicate is roughly 35-40% black currant juice by volume, while this current batch is roughly 21% black currant. So looks like I should of included another 1-2qt of black currant juice in the original must (4-5qt of juice plus honey and water to 2.5gal total). Look like More reason to get the black currant juice concentrate to do my own blending. Unless the trick here really is to add more juice as a secondary fermentation.

 

[Seamonkey84]

I just ordered some black currant concentrate from Currant-C, so I can blend some into this batch without messing with the volume too much.

I forgot to mention, the other day when I pulled the fruit bag, it was at 1.010. I took a sip and it was just too tart. I added another pound of honey, bringing it up to 1.020 and that was just about right. Then I pulled a sample to cold crash.
I drank the cold crashed sample last night. Of course I had to degas and aerated the glass first. The cherry flavor did stand out... though I kind of forgot I don’t like the fruit that much. So I’m likely going to omit cherries in future batches, or try sweet instead of tart. Aside from that, it turned out pretty nice though it’s not finished yet. This morning I saw it dropped to 1.016. I’m going to let it finish what it’s doing then sweeten it back up to ~1.020

 

[Seamonkey84]

I received the black currant concentrate a few days ago and added enough to make the batch have 6qts worth of vintners in a 4gal batch. Then added another 2lbs of mixed fruit and water to the 4gal mark on the bucket. My hope is to restart the fermentation a bit to process the concentrate. The gravity had stabilized for a few days already before the addition, so I hope I lowered the abv enough to wake the yeast back up.

 

[Seamonkey84]

Update on this batch. The fermentation indeed restarted with the addition of more fruit and water, so the yeast got to work on the currant concentrate and the new fruit. When I pulled that bag of fruit, I racked it all into a 3gaL and 1gal carboy to let it clear.

 

[Blacksmith1]

I added a pom juice to one of my ciders. When fermentation restarted, so did the clock. It was like I had started the whole brew on that day as far as my timing went.

 

[Seamonkey84]

Yea I fully expected and was hoping for that. I wanted the yeast to work on the new fruit and concentrate. It’ll be a good comparison as I’m currently clearing a mead that I racked off of some black berries that didn’t ferment. That batch must have sat too long and choked out from high abv. It never restarted fermentation and it just soaked the berries and absorbed the color and juices.

 

[Seamonkey84]

This batch cleared in the carboy, and a layer of lees has built up on the bottom. I dropped my hydrometer in the carboy and saw that it finished at 1.020. I pulled about an ounce to sample, it’s still petillant. After some swirling and breathing, it tastes quite nice. I’m definitely going to omit the cherry juice next time.
I put a pound of honey in another 3gaL carboy, and racked the wine into it. It wound up filling it right up to the neck, though I ended up getting a little lees as well. I’ll let the additional honey blend and let it clear some more before racking again and bottling.

 

[bracconiere]

damn it...i'm going to add 1 gal of tropical punch to my next cider, and i'm calling it deathcocktail! lol

 

[Seamonkey84]

The recipe I based this off of was berry death, so go ahead lol. Mines basically a black mead, so Black Deathberry had a nice ring to it lol.

 

[Seamonkey84]

Update, I’ve degassed and bottled this batch, and have given most of it away as late holiday gifts. It cleared beautifully, smells and tasted delicious.

 

[SKBugs]

It’s kept its colour well.
Great job.
Waiting for things to cool down a bit where I am.
Thanks for updating

 

[madscientist451]

Update, I’ve degassed and bottled this batch, and have given most of it away as late holiday gifts. It cleared beautifully, smells and tasted delicious.

It seems like the recipe shifted over a month or so, do you have an updated recipe with everything in it?
I've been sitting on all the ingredients for a clone attempt of Shramm's "Heart of Darkness" mead, for over a year, (yeah, having a job gets in the way of my hobbies) but perhaps I'll just use your Deathberry recipe instead with a few tweaks. My goal is to make a high quality mead inspired by Heart of Darkness but use ingredients everyone can get at the store.

 

[bob1852]

It seems like the recipe shifted over a month or so, do you have an updated recipe with everything in it?
I've been sitting on all the ingredients for a clone attempt of Shramm's "Heart of Darkness" mead, for over a year, (yeah, having a job gets in the way of my hobbies) but perhaps I'll just use your Deathberry recipe instead with a few tweaks. My goal is to make a high quality mead inspired by Heart of Darkness but use ingredients everyone can get at the store.

If you aren't aware, the FG of Heart of Darkness is around ~1.100.

And, no, that's not a typo..

 

[madscientist451]

If you aren't

If you aren't aware, the FG of Heart of Darkness is around ~1.100.

And, no, that's not a typo..

, the FG of Heart of Darkness is around ~1.100.

And, no, that's not a typo..

Source of that information?
At $150+ for a small bottle, I'm not going to be able to get an actual sample for a gravity reading.

Here's what the Schramm's website says:
It pours a deep purple in color, has a dense fruitiness and a mid-palate with considerable tartness and a lingering, balanced finish

 

[Seamonkey84]

It seems like the recipe shifted over a month or so, do you have an updated recipe with everything in it?
I've been sitting on all the ingredients for a clone attempt of Shramm's "Heart of Darkness" mead, for over a year, (yeah, having a job gets in the way of my hobbies) but perhaps I'll just use your Deathberry recipe instead with a few tweaks. My goal is to make a high quality mead inspired by Heart of Darkness but use ingredients everyone can get at the store.

At the end, This is the recipe I came up with. I have another batch without the cherry juice, and with some oak added to compare it to later.

4.5qt black currant juice (vintners, Knudsen’s, or 14.5oz of concentrate http://currantc.mybigcommerce.com/categories/Concentrate/)
10lbs honey
6lb triple berry+3lb strawberries
1qt tart cherry juice
Water to 3gaL

 

[bob1852]

Source of that information?
At $150+ for a small bottle, I'm not going to be able to get an actual sample for a gravity reading.

Here's what the Schramm's website says:
It pours a deep purple in color, has a dense fruitiness and a mid-palate with considerable tartness and a lingering, balanced finish

A close friend who bought a bottle and took a hydrometer reading.

I've had several other schramm meads...a few I've tested have been 1.060-1.080 FG.

But because of the acid, tannin, etc., they're not cloyingly sweet and are surprisingly balanced.

 

[Seamonkey84]

I just looked up Heart of Darkness, holy crap that is expensive and intense sounding. The clone recipes I found basically says no juice or water, just fruit and honey! I think I’m going to have to try something like that too... but I’ll have to use frozen fruit, and currant juice from concentrate. Thinking roughly 2.5-3lbs honey to 10lbs triple berry and a pint or two of currant juice (at natural strength) to make a gallon.

 

[bob1852]

10lbs of fruit is going to give you almost a gallon of liquid by itself...

Add in a few pints of juice and and a quart of honey, and you're already well over a gallon batch. Not to mention that only 3lbs of honey is going to ferment nearly dry (even with that much fruit) and in order for it to be balanced, you're going to need to backsweeten quite a bit (to at least 1.050, in my experience...even more if you have a lot of currant), which can add almost another quart or more to your volume, and now all of the sudden your fruit/volume ratio is back down to around 5lbs/gallon.

Otherwise, you're better off just making a fruit wine, in my opinion..

Those big fruit bomb meads are challenging to make, for sure. I love Schramm's, and I've had more than a few other commercial attempts made by other meaderies that aren't good....way out of balance, too many fusels from stressed fermentations, too much acid additions or oak to attempt to cover up flaws, etc...

Schramm's techniques and results are magical, if you're into giant honey/fruit bombs.

 

[Seamonkey84]

I’ll give it a shot for a gallon and add more honey and add the currant as a concentrate. That way the volume of honey can dilute the juice. you sure these aren’t fortified like Vikings blood?

 

[bob1852]

Schramm's is not fortifieid.

 

[madscientist451]

I'm going to try to ferment the honey/water first and then add Knudsen's "Just Black Currant" juice (which is made from concentrate), tart cherry concentrate, and frozen raspberries from Walmart or wherever I can get them. I'm going to roughly use the fruit& juice amounts Seamonkey84 used with success and 71-B yeast. For honey, I'll be using Mountain Ridge US grade A raw honey from my local Warmart. This honey is somewhat dark and maybe only available on a regional basis, but I'm trying to make something that anyone can replicate without using special honey or fruit (Shramm uses special honey, cherries and currants that are not widely available)
I'll try to get this started in the next few weeks and report back how it progresses. Thanks to Seamonkey for publishing his fruit/juice amounts, because that was somewhat of a mystery to me and I was going to just throw it together with what I had and hope for the best.
So now with the FG information (thanks to AZ IPA) I'm thinking that Schramm makes a base mead, adds the currants, cherries and raspberries, let all that ferment out, then stabilizes the mead and adds more honey to bring the FG up?

 

[bob1852]

So now with the FG information (thanks to AZ IPA) I'm thinking that Schramm makes a base mead, adds the currants, cherries and raspberries, let all that ferment out, then stabilizes the mead and adds more honey to bring the FG up?

Schramm has said in many podcasts/interviews that he doesn't stabilize and backsweeten...

But, he has to be step feeding honey and/or fruit along the way though, otherwise the OG would be something like ~1.200 or something ridiculous that wouldn't even ferment.

I'm fairly certain he makes multiple batches and blends as well...

 

[Seamonkey84]

Been thinking about what you were saying about the honey upping the volume and reducing the fruit per gallon, but they would have to do that at the meadery too, plus bring the fruit amount down to more palatable levels. I’ve read, with fruit wines, any more than 6lbs per gallon (with 3qts of water added to the fruit) and it may be too acidic to drink. As for step feeding, since the BOMM protocol goes through 120 gravity points, I’d start my batch at about 1.100, let it go close to dry, then add enough honey to bring it up another 70-100 points, it’ll ferment a bit more and then stop at about 1.050-1.080.

 

[madscientist451]

Perhaps Schramm is filtering out the yeast and can then say he's not stabilizing?
I don't have the equipment for that, so I'll have to try a different way.
So my basic process is going to be:
-Make a basic mead, target about 16% ABV , trying to avoid stressed fermentation by leaving the low PH currant and cherry out until secondary.
-when its mostly done, add currant and cherry juice + raspberries and let that ferment out.
-more honey may have to be added to hit target ABV
-stabilize and backsweeten to taste with honey.
Target ABV will be 14% but no FG target, that will depend on taste.
I'll send a small bottle to anyone who wants to contribute information to the project, just PM me. I haven't even started it yet, so it may be a year or more before you get anything.
I apologize for hijacking the OP's thread

 

[Seamonkey84]

Oh this has sent me down another recipe to try. Basically this blend minus the water addition...

 

[bob1852]

Been thinking about what you were saying about the honey upping the volume and reducing the fruit per gallon, but they would have to do that at the meadery too, plus bring the fruit amount down to more palatable levels.

That's one big problem with mead recipes....are they talking about #'s of fruit per gallon in the primary? Or the final volume? Or something in between (volume of must before fruit addition?)...

I’ve read, with fruit wines, any more than 6lbs per gallon (with 3qts of water added to the fruit) and it may be too acidic to drink.

That's one big reason why Schramm's FG's are so high. Even at 1.050, that much fruit is going to be overwhelming unless there's lots of honey to balance it.

As for step feeding, since the BOMM protocol goes through 120 gravity points, I’d start my batch at about 1.100, let it go close to dry, then add enough honey to bring it up another 70-100 points, it’ll ferment a bit more and then stop at about 1.050-1.080.

Be cautious with your currant addition....even at 1.050, it may be too taste and taste semi-sweet...


I have a batch of this I've been working on for a couple months now. Not ready to share all of my secrets, but it was 36lbs of fruit (sour cherries, raspberries, and black currants) in what I hoped to be a 3 gallon (final volume) batch....or 12lbs of fruit per gallon.

But the time the fruit was pulled, it would up being closer to 4.5 gallons in volume (so down to 8lbs fruit per gallon)....but only at about 1.030 gravity.

Bench trials suggest I want to back sweeten to at least 1.085, so I need another 7+ lbs of honey (more than 1/2 gallon of volume).

So now I'm closer to a 5 gallon batch (final volume), or closer to 7lbs of fruit per finished gallon...

So, did I use 12lbs per gallon, or 7?

(Yet another reason why I don't really share recipes as much any more...process matters, too. )

 

[Seamonkey84]

Yep, that then adding more fruit to up the flavor while adding more honey to balance.... it just goes round and round. if I’m working with a concentrate, or freeze concentrating my own juice, maybe I can stop the madness and make the fruit and honey volume one and the same?!? Like if I wanted to mix honey into a Welch’s pyment, but not dilute the flavor with the added volume of honey. I would mix a can of grape juice concentrate according to directions, but replace water with honey, then mix that with regular strength juice till I reach desired gravity.
On another note, I just listed to one of the interviews with Ken Schramm, he says he uses about as much honey as fruit by weight... so maybe I’m just going down the wrong rabbit hole.

 

[madscientist451]

I was looking around for info about how many lbs/fruit per gallon and found this from Cornell U. :

https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.cornell.edu/dist/0/7265/files/2016/11/raspwine-1yiotig.pdf

For 2 lbs of fruit you only need to add 1 pint of water and 1 lb of sugar.
If honey is substituted for the sugar, then that adds 1.34 cups of liquid volume.
The article says to use 30 lbs of fruit for 5 gallons
So you would add 15 pints of water or 1.875 gallons
15 lbs of honey would be 20.1 cups or 1.25 gallons (maybe more closer to 1.5 gallons?)
If you used the same amount of honey as fruit (30 lbs) the honey would be 2.5 to 3 gallons.
30 lbs of honey in a 5 gallon batch would be 1.210, if the yeast quit at 16% ABV that would leave a FG at about 1.084.
This doesn't include any alcohol from the the fruit.
The above numbers were calculated using the Brewers's Friend recipe builder and may or may not be a little off.
So, am I on the right track here?
I still have to make adjustments for using juice instead of all fruit.

 

[bob1852]

The big problem is a 1.210 won't really ferment very well. So, stepping feeding with fruit and/or honey is gotta be what schramm is doing...

Read up on dwojniak mead making (polish meads).

They too have ridiculously high starting/finishing gravity, though usually higher abv...

 

[Seamonkey84]

I’m still waiting for the oaking to complete on my second batch of this black deathberry (minus cherry). In the mean time, looking into the heart of darkness some more, I found this interview which gives the guidelines for some of his heavier melomels. my blend is based on using vintners or Knudsen’s black currant juice, which is watered down from natural strength anyway. I can just use my ratios but use the juice to mix the honey, then mix that into about 10lbs of fruit. Mix to 1.100 first, let ferment close to dry, then load another 100 points worth of honey in to let it ferment some more but leave the residual sugars.

https://www.trianglearoundtown.com/trianglearoundtown/2018/08/MeadMakerInterviewwithKenSchramm.html

The melomels Schramm's Mead makes are amazing. We really enjoy meads such as The Statement, Red Agnes, and were fortunate enough to try The Heart of Darkness. How much fruit goes into making your melomels?

We do use a lot of fruit, and all of our fruit meads are made with real fruit. We make our cysers with apple cider, but that is always 100 percent pressed fruit. I am not really willing to say exactly how much fruit goes into our recipes, but we generally use only enough water to dissolve the honey. More than 50 percent of the volume of the must is fruit, but the density of honey means that most of the fermentable sugar comes from the honey. I will tell you that some of our meads are crafted with more than 10 pounds of fruit per finished gallon of mead. Yes, that is very expensive. It makes the style and profile of meads that we enjoy and want to share with the world.

 

[Seamonkey84]

At the end, This is the recipe I came up with. I have another batch without the cherry juice, and with some oak added to compare it to later.

So… after checking back on the dates… is 3 years too long of a bulk age for that batch I mentioned.
Going to bottle that 3gals up soon, need to clear the carboy to do another batch since I’ve been sitting on frozen fruits for a couple years and need to clear the freezer

 

[Dan O]

So… after checking back on the dates… is 3 years too long of a bulk age for that batch I mentioned.
Going to bottle that 3gals up soon, need to clear the carboy to do another batch since I’ve been sitting on frozen fruits for a couple years and need to clear the freezer

Are you saying you've had frozen fruits in the freezer for a couple of years?? I hate to say it, but, it probably all has freezer burn by now, unless you removed it from the original packaging & vacuum sealed it.

 

[Seamonkey84]

it probably all has freezer burn by now

You mean sugars been concentrated further . Some have been in for a couple years, others have been for about a year. Freezer burning shouldn’t effect anything for this purpose, just some water loss through sublimation, or slightly freeze dried.

 

[T Murph]

No 3 yrs is definitely not too long to age that melomel. I currently have 3 that are 3 yrs old, a Blackberry, a Raspberry and a triple Berry with Blackberries, raspberries and blue berries. All have matured nicely although their volumes have diminished due to regular consumption. But then that is why they were made, to consume and enjoy.

I'm guessing yours is going to be outstanding after aging. Please tell us how it turned out.

 

[Seamonkey84]

Just bottled it yesterday. I do think it’s past its prime at this point, but OMG I’m going to start another batch up ASAP!

My final ratios from my notes making this. I made this following the BOMM method, and I didn’t stabilize it, just maxed out the yeasts abv with residual sugars, then back sweetened with more honey. So adjust starting gravity and stabilize to back sweeten to your own preference.

Black Deathberry melomel
4.5qt black currant juice (vinters cans and/or Knudsen’s juice, or 15oz of frozen concentrate)
10lbs honey
6lbs triple berry+3lb strawberries
Water to 3gaL