Black Deathberry melomel

[bob1852]

Been thinking about what you were saying about the honey upping the volume and reducing the fruit per gallon, but they would have to do that at the meadery too, plus bring the fruit amount down to more palatable levels.

That's one big problem with mead recipes....are they talking about #'s of fruit per gallon in the primary? Or the final volume? Or something in between (volume of must before fruit addition?)...

I’ve read, with fruit wines, any more than 6lbs per gallon (with 3qts of water added to the fruit) and it may be too acidic to drink.

That's one big reason why Schramm's FG's are so high. Even at 1.050, that much fruit is going to be overwhelming unless there's lots of honey to balance it.

As for step feeding, since the BOMM protocol goes through 120 gravity points, I’d start my batch at about 1.100, let it go close to dry, then add enough honey to bring it up another 70-100 points, it’ll ferment a bit more and then stop at about 1.050-1.080.

Be cautious with your currant addition....even at 1.050, it may be too taste and taste semi-sweet...


I have a batch of this I've been working on for a couple months now. Not ready to share all of my secrets, but it was 36lbs of fruit (sour cherries, raspberries, and black currants) in what I hoped to be a 3 gallon (final volume) batch....or 12lbs of fruit per gallon.

But the time the fruit was pulled, it would up being closer to 4.5 gallons in volume (so down to 8lbs fruit per gallon)....but only at about 1.030 gravity.

Bench trials suggest I want to back sweeten to at least 1.085, so I need another 7+ lbs of honey (more than 1/2 gallon of volume).

So now I'm closer to a 5 gallon batch (final volume), or closer to 7lbs of fruit per finished gallon...

So, did I use 12lbs per gallon, or 7?

(Yet another reason why I don't really share recipes as much any more...process matters, too. )

 

[Seamonkey84]

Yep, that then adding more fruit to up the flavor while adding more honey to balance.... it just goes round and round. if I’m working with a concentrate, or freeze concentrating my own juice, maybe I can stop the madness and make the fruit and honey volume one and the same?!? Like if I wanted to mix honey into a Welch’s pyment, but not dilute the flavor with the added volume of honey. I would mix a can of grape juice concentrate according to directions, but replace water with honey, then mix that with regular strength juice till I reach desired gravity.
On another note, I just listed to one of the interviews with Ken Schramm, he says he uses about as much honey as fruit by weight... so maybe I’m just going down the wrong rabbit hole.

 

[madscientist451]

I was looking around for info about how many lbs/fruit per gallon and found this from Cornell U. :

https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.cornell.edu/dist/0/7265/files/2016/11/raspwine-1yiotig.pdf

For 2 lbs of fruit you only need to add 1 pint of water and 1 lb of sugar.
If honey is substituted for the sugar, then that adds 1.34 cups of liquid volume.
The article says to use 30 lbs of fruit for 5 gallons
So you would add 15 pints of water or 1.875 gallons
15 lbs of honey would be 20.1 cups or 1.25 gallons (maybe more closer to 1.5 gallons?)
If you used the same amount of honey as fruit (30 lbs) the honey would be 2.5 to 3 gallons.
30 lbs of honey in a 5 gallon batch would be 1.210, if the yeast quit at 16% ABV that would leave a FG at about 1.084.
This doesn't include any alcohol from the the fruit.
The above numbers were calculated using the Brewers's Friend recipe builder and may or may not be a little off.
So, am I on the right track here?
I still have to make adjustments for using juice instead of all fruit.

 

[bob1852]

The big problem is a 1.210 won't really ferment very well. So, stepping feeding with fruit and/or honey is gotta be what schramm is doing...

Read up on dwojniak mead making (polish meads).

They too have ridiculously high starting/finishing gravity, though usually higher abv...

 

[Seamonkey84]

I’m still waiting for the oaking to complete on my second batch of this black deathberry (minus cherry). In the mean time, looking into the heart of darkness some more, I found this interview which gives the guidelines for some of his heavier melomels. my blend is based on using vintners or Knudsen’s black currant juice, which is watered down from natural strength anyway. I can just use my ratios but use the juice to mix the honey, then mix that into about 10lbs of fruit. Mix to 1.100 first, let ferment close to dry, then load another 100 points worth of honey in to let it ferment some more but leave the residual sugars.

https://www.trianglearoundtown.com/trianglearoundtown/2018/08/MeadMakerInterviewwithKenSchramm.html

The melomels Schramm's Mead makes are amazing. We really enjoy meads such as The Statement, Red Agnes, and were fortunate enough to try The Heart of Darkness. How much fruit goes into making your melomels?

We do use a lot of fruit, and all of our fruit meads are made with real fruit. We make our cysers with apple cider, but that is always 100 percent pressed fruit. I am not really willing to say exactly how much fruit goes into our recipes, but we generally use only enough water to dissolve the honey. More than 50 percent of the volume of the must is fruit, but the density of honey means that most of the fermentable sugar comes from the honey. I will tell you that some of our meads are crafted with more than 10 pounds of fruit per finished gallon of mead. Yes, that is very expensive. It makes the style and profile of meads that we enjoy and want to share with the world.

 

[Seamonkey84]

At the end, This is the recipe I came up with. I have another batch without the cherry juice, and with some oak added to compare it to later.

So… after checking back on the dates… is 3 years too long of a bulk age for that batch I mentioned.
Going to bottle that 3gals up soon, need to clear the carboy to do another batch since I’ve been sitting on frozen fruits for a couple years and need to clear the freezer

 

[Dan O]

So… after checking back on the dates… is 3 years too long of a bulk age for that batch I mentioned.
Going to bottle that 3gals up soon, need to clear the carboy to do another batch since I’ve been sitting on frozen fruits for a couple years and need to clear the freezer

Are you saying you've had frozen fruits in the freezer for a couple of years?? I hate to say it, but, it probably all has freezer burn by now, unless you removed it from the original packaging & vacuum sealed it.

 

[Seamonkey84]

it probably all has freezer burn by now

You mean sugars been concentrated further . Some have been in for a couple years, others have been for about a year. Freezer burning shouldn’t effect anything for this purpose, just some water loss through sublimation, or slightly freeze dried.

 

[T Murph]

No 3 yrs is definitely not too long to age that melomel. I currently have 3 that are 3 yrs old, a Blackberry, a Raspberry and a triple Berry with Blackberries, raspberries and blue berries. All have matured nicely although their volumes have diminished due to regular consumption. But then that is why they were made, to consume and enjoy.

I'm guessing yours is going to be outstanding after aging. Please tell us how it turned out.

 

[Seamonkey84]

Just bottled it yesterday. I do think it’s past its prime at this point, but OMG I’m going to start another batch up ASAP!

My final ratios from my notes making this. I made this following the BOMM method, and I didn’t stabilize it, just maxed out the yeasts abv with residual sugars, then back sweetened with more honey. So adjust starting gravity and stabilize to back sweeten to your own preference.

Black Deathberry melomel
4.5qt black currant juice (vinters cans and/or Knudsen’s juice, or 15oz of frozen concentrate)
10lbs honey
6lbs triple berry+3lb strawberries
Water to 3gaL

 

[Jack_0106]

At the end, This is the recipe I came up with. I have another batch without the cherry juice, and with some oak added to compare it to later.

4.5qt black currant juice (vintners, Knudsen’s, or 14.5oz of concentrate http://currantc.mybigcommerce.com/categories/Concentrate/)
10lbs honey
6lb triple berry+3lb strawberries
1qt tart cherry juice
Water to 3gaL

Is this 5 or 3 gallon measurements? I think I'm going to give this a shot for a gallon.