Hunter's Basement E-Brewery Build

hunter306 said:

Some good thoughts, I think next time around we'll be running it into a Conical anyway, so I'll let cold break settle, dump off the trub and then pitch.

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I'd love to hear how this works. I suspect you'd lose a ton of wort dumping the trub out the bottom.

Let us know.

brewman ! said:

I'd love to hear how this works. I suspect you'd lose a ton of wort dumping the trub out the bottom.

Let us know.

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If I end up only drawing beer from above the trub layers in both of these fermenters I'm looking at roughly a gallon and a half of loss. Since the conical is designed for this purpose, I suspect loss difference will be negligible.

As always, I'll be sure to share the results. Lots of learning these first few batches on all new equipment. Once we have got our losses dialed in across the entire process, I'll be much happier.

Looking good.


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Usually after you get your processes dialed in you go and change something else. At least that is how I am great build by the way!


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http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/Hop-Spider-with-seam-welds_p_158.html

Forget about the hop strainer. More people have much more trouble with them than don't. I use the largest hop screen/Spider from stainless brewing .com

Thanks Huaco, I was doing some reading and I'm thinking the same thing. Found a few others complaining of similar performance concerns when trying to chill the batch quickly to prevent those off flavors.

Yeah, best part is, you can make a late hop addition and start chilling. After a few minutes simply pull the strainer out. DONE!

Gathered up some pictures of the first brewday for you guys to check out. We were pretty excited to get it fired up!

First Crush, which looked a bit shredded to me:


So, we regapped the mill and tried a bit more grain:


Prepping one of the fermenters for the wort, in requisite safety attire... =D


Measuring out one of the late hop additions (3oz, 1 Amarillo, 1 Citra, 1 Simcoe):


Mashing the grain:


Observing the mash, since we were still really leary from the stuck one 12hrs earlier...




And finally, Brother and Co-Brewer watching the boil:



First batch is still bubbling away after 60hrs (2.5 days). Healthy Krausen on the wort so far and both seem happy. We've been maintaining 61-65 degree temperatures so hopefully we get a decent clean fermentation. More updates to come!

Awesome! How do you think the system holds up to non-electric, non-partially automated? I'm planning on doing something similar (once the kids are in school and no more daycare costs) and want to hear your feelings. Is it worth the cost and time?

ImNoExpert said:

Awesome! How do you think the system holds up to non-electric, non-partially automated? I'm planning on doing something similar (once the kids are in school and no more daycare costs) and want to hear your feelings. Is it worth the cost and time?

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I'll throw in some support for temperature controlled mash while you wait to hear back from Hunter (though I can't speak for electric, which I'm sure is great).

But having mashed in a cooler for a few years before switching to a temp. controlled, direct fired MLT, I can say that it's great! No more obsessing about strike water temp. I just guess about 6--8 degrees over, and dough in. If I'm low, it will be fixed. Step mashes are a matter of the push of a button.

If anything, the brew day is a bit longer due to the ease of mashing out in spite of the time increase of doing so.

Having the HLT ready to go when I'm ready is great, too.

In short, to quote Mr. Beuller, "It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly suggest you pick one up."

That said, I made great beer in my old cooler.

ImNoExpert said:

Awesome! How do you think the system holds up to non-electric, non-partially automated? I'm planning on doing something similar (once the kids are in school and no more daycare costs) and want to hear your feelings. Is it worth the cost and time?

Click to expand...

I have to confess, I was a straight Extract brewer before this system so I really didn't have experience trying to closely regulate a mash and sparge with non-automated equipment. Given the trouble we had holding a desired temperature in our steeping step back during the extract days, the Electronic PID controls are awesome.

My 2 Cents: The system 'looks' way more complex and complicated to use than it actually is. Once I have a few more brews under my belt I'll be better equipped to review the overall process but so far, the most obnoxious downside is dealing with liquid left in the hoses, coils and fittings when you disconnect them for the next step. I found pinching hoses lets me control that, but the pumps and fittings still make a mess.

That is a tiny gripe though, one of those things that would never be a big deal if it were in a production space. Otherwise, I think it's really awesome. Set the temps of the HLT and you can essentially walk away (not advocating this, but really, it's impressive how well the temps are handled).

I think mashing and the false bottom causing our first stuck mash was simply a learning curve of our lack of familiarity with the All-Grain process.

With that being said, I highly encourage you to get an electric kettle and even a single pid in the mix. It's pretty awesome!

I used to brew all grain with a cooler MLT and kegs using propane. I built something very similar to Hunter's only I used kegs and I can attest they The electric system makes the brew day WAY more enjoyable. No more worrying about mash temperature or hovering over the propane manifold trying to regulate the flame. I highly recommend the move to anyone.

Hunter, I can't remember if you used the same quick disconnects as Kal or if you got the ones that use the "flip lock" method. I bought the latter ones and they do tend to make a mess if not careful. Two things I learned with them: 1) make sure all valves are closed prior to disconnecting them, 2) disconnect from the highest point first and let the little bit of liquid drain out. Then disconnect the lowest point and let gravity do the draining.

Also, I suspect if we were to use the same ones Kal used we wouldn't have this problem add they should self seal upon being disconnected. If only bargain fittings had them in Stock when I went on my shopping spree....

hunter306 said:

My 2 Cents: The system 'looks' way more complex and complicated to use than it actually is. Once I have a few more brews under my belt I'll be better equipped to review the overall process but so far, the most obnoxious downside is dealing with liquid left in the hoses, coils and fittings when you disconnect them for the next step. I found pinching hoses lets me control that, but the pumps and fittings still make a mess.

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I totally agree! After a couple of brews it's cake. But the liquid lost in hoses is a pain, just have to account for it, which you will once everything is dialed in.

I gotta find one of those sweet sink setups.


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Is it uncouth to ask how much it all cost?

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Heffe53 said:

Also, I suspect if we were to use the same ones Kal used we wouldn't have this problem add they should self seal upon being disconnected. If only bargain fittings had them in Stock when I went on my shopping spree....

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I actually was curious about this, but even the quick-disconnects Kal recommends do not stop the flow when you disconnect them. That would make cleaning the hoses extremely difficult too, so probably best that they don't.

Itsott said:

I gotta find one of those sweet sink setups.


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I bought a 'Regency' branded one from the:

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/

It looks like they're running a special on them right now. If you find one that can be shipped via standard services (it'll say how it ships on the product page) their prices are pretty reasonable. Their 'Common Courier' service for larger items is a bit expensive though.

Trippel-A said:

Is it uncouth to ask how much it all cost?

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I didn't keep very good notes on costs for this project, but I estimate (if you include the finishing work I did in the basement) that it was around 6k.

As far as dripping wort making a mess while DC'ing the hoses...
get a couple of these for your brew stand.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MR6I9I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Here's my method for moving hoses. I have a small pan under the purge valve on my pump.

1. Close all kettle valves.
2. Open the pump purge valve slightly (if you are moving the output hose, open the pump output valve slightly as well).
3. Unhook the output end of the hose from the coupling on the kettle.
4. Watch as the liquid in that hose falls and drains out into the pan under the purge valve.
5. When the liquid level in the hose has dropped a few inches, close the pump purge valve.
6. Carefully move the hose to the next connection point.

You lose very little liquid doing this, and it avoids getting hot wort on your hands or inside the gloves (ouch).

dcbc said:

Here's my method for moving hoses. I have a small pan under the purge valve on my pump.

1. Close all kettle valves.
2. Open the pump purge valve slightly (if you are moving the output hose, open the pump output valve slightly as well).
3. Unhook the output end of the hose from the coupling on the kettle.
4. Watch as the liquid in that hose falls and drains out into the pan under the purge valve.
5. When the liquid level in the hose has dropped a few inches, close the pump purge valve.
6. Carefully move the hose to the next connection point.

You lose very little liquid doing this, and it avoids getting hot wort on your hands or inside the gloves (ouch).

Click to expand...

My current method is close one valve the hose is connected to. Then I fold the silicone tubing over repeatedly, like when you roll up a toothpaste tube, then close the other valve. Now I have a hose with less liquid in it than it wants to have. As soon as the seal on the connection is broken there is a suction and maybe a few drips but that's it.

I like the idea of the purge valve trick though. I never have problems priming so I never installed purge valves, but I think I might now.

I will be attempting a similar build, but am trying to cut cost where I can. I have been using an aluminum pot in my current system and have brewed some great beers, but it will be too small for this set up. Would it cause any issues with using aluminum pots for the whole system ?

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Matthewjscott said:

I will be attempting a similar build, but am trying to cut cost where I can. I have been using an aluminum pot in my current system and have brewed some great beers, but it will be too small for this set up. Would it cause any issues with using aluminum pots for the whole system ?

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I think it would be dependent on the wall thickness. In my experience (I brewed in aluminum before this) the metal was quite soft. To get these weldless connections sealed well, you do have to wrench them down pretty hard. I'd be a little be leary that it might actually deform the kettle.

I'm not confident on that though, so definitely do some additional research. If you're looking to save some money, I highly recommend going with AIH (homebrewing.org)'s line of stainless pots, which are super affordable.

A pitcher is really nice on brewdays. Just disconnect a hose and drain it into there then dump back into your MT or BK or what have you. Simple, easy.

hunter306 said:

I think it would be dependent on the wall thickness. In my experience (I brewed in aluminum before this) the metal was quite soft. To get these weldless connections sealed well, you do have to wrench them down pretty hard. I'd be a little be leary that it might actually deform the kettle.

I'm not confident on that though, so definitely do some additional research. If you're looking to save some money, I highly recommend going with AIH (homebrewing.org)'s line of stainless pots, which are super affordable.

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Looking at it from the other side, I think that part of the reason you have to wrench these weldless fittings down so had on stainless kettles is because they don't deform easily. The stainless constantly wants to spring back, but aluminum might just yield enough to make a good seal with far less pressure. The diameter of the pot is also key. It's harder to get a seal on a 15g keg than a 30g Blichmann kettle because the curvature of the wall is so much greater.

iijakii said:

a pitcher is really nice on brewdays. Just disconnect a hose and drain it into there then dump back into your mt or bk or what have you. Simple, easy.

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+1

Setesh said:

Looking at it from the other side, I think that part of the reason you have to wrench these weldless fittings down so had on stainless kettles is because they don't deform easily. The stainless constantly wants to spring back, but aluminum might just yield enough to make a good seal with far less pressure. The diameter of the pot is also key. It's harder to get a seal on a 15g keg than a 30g Blichmann kettle because the curvature of the wall is so much greater.

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^^^^^ What he said!
My Buddy was having a time with his weldless fittings vs. the curvature of the vessel.
A major problem, as delivered, was that the holes were not de-burred, thereby gouging his o-rings when he smoked them down.

I de-burred the holes, marked the area where the fitting / washer / valve / thermometer stackup covered, and moved 1/4 inch outside of that.

Then I took a body hammer and a smooth dolly, and proceeded to shrink / flatten said curved area to give the gizmos something to bear down flat on.

No more leaky!

Yeah, it was a little tougher with the stainless, ( and LOUD!), but I just used regular " body working", metalworking practices on them, and they came around to "my way of thinkin' ".

Interesting thoughts. That certainly explains why I had to put so much force on mine to get them locked down!

Stealthcruiser said:

Then I took a body hammer and a smooth dolly, and proceeded to shrink / flatten said curved area to give the gizmos something to bear down flat on.

No more leaky!

Yeah, it was a little tougher with the stainless, ( and LOUD!), but I just used regular " body working", metalworking practices on them, and they came around to "my way of thinkin' ".

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HAHA...I was just thinking, "Does no one own a hammer?" But then when you say bodyworking, maybe it was my highschool/college years of jalopy repairs that let me thinking shaping metal was normal/relatively easy. Yep, I just beat my AIH pot (and my smaller big lots test pot) with a rubber mallet with a 2*4 inside the pot.

The prices for the homebrewing.org pots are amazing. The difficulty is trying to find a pot sized for brewing five gallon batches but still have the space for a heating element.

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Can you still brew 5 gallon batches effectively with pots this big? If so, I can actually get some 15 gallon pots for really cheap.

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I have 15 gallon pots and plan to do 5 gallon batches.


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I have 20 gallon pots and will do some 5g batches.


Almost Famous Brewing Company

I'm also planning on running some smaller 6 gallon batches in my setup. I originally opted for the 15gal kettles to be more appropriate for both, so I suspect you'll have no issue.

@matthew, I assume you're looking at the prices on Homebrewing.org for their 15gal kettles? That's a great price. I live near the shop and I've checked them out, the kettles are a bit wider and shorter than the blichmanns, but other wise very nice.

This is what I think about on brewing small batches in big pots.

1) Taller and narrow is better than wider and short. This results in more wort volume above the element and not spread out to sides.

2) How low can you go? How far down in the pot can you get your element without touching bottom. This is a factor on some pots where the curvature to the bottom plate can start almost 2" up the side of pot.

Not sure if accurate or not, but those are what I wonder about.

Roadie...have you done a 5gal in your 20gal pots yet? Or are you just planning to? Would love to hear if that is actually practical or if you get a whole lot of carmelization because of giant element for low volume of wort. Also would think boil off would be big issue if you have lots of surface area in that 20gal pot. Hmmm....

sablesurfer said:

Roadie...have you done a 5gal in your 20gal pots yet? Or are you just planning to? Would love to hear if that is actually practical or if you get a whole lot of carmelization because of giant element for low volume of wort. Also would think boil off would be big issue if you have lots of surface area in that 20gal pot. Hmmm....

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I have not brewed on the new system yet but will this Sunday. When I say 5g batch I really mean 5.5 from BK to carboy so preboil closer to 7g.

We have been brewing at a retail place that uses the same Stout kettles and have been told 5g is no problem - though we've always done 10g batches there.



Almost Famous Brewing Company

Roadie said:

I have 20 gallon pots and will do some 5g batches.

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Your grain bed is going to be about 3" deep on light 5 gallon beers, depending on the aspect ratio of your pots. If you get a tall, thin 20 gallon pot, then you'll get really deep grain beds on the 20 gallon batches.

I bought 11 and 20.5 gallon pots for my brewery. That allows a variety of combinations.

I am trying to figure out how to get the HERMS coil and the heating element measured out and how low I can lay them out

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The heating element (if you're following the standard 2-gang box design and not some other enclosure) is determined by the box size. I ended up mounting mine so the edge of the 2-gang box was at the ridge of the blichmann false bottom. If you don't have that ridge, you would be able to get it mounted a hair lower (1" lower, roughly).

As for the herms coil, once I had the element mounted, I then spaced the coil about 1.5" above that element.

I'm sure you could adjust that, based on the pot you choose.