yeah the oven is what killed your enzymes. just the drier is fine for pale malts and you would have needed more than 2.5 hours you should be able to snap the grain open and not squish it with your finger nail. i normally do the bite test if it snaps in your front teeth and not squishes then she should be right. for home malt i found you want to go closer to full conversion (acrospire close to 100%) to get good results. dont give up i make all my malts at home now
Happiness is: Home malting
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Absinthe, your a diamond, thanks. This is just what I was looking for. My grains weren't squishy but you could press a finger nail in em. I think I will give the dryer another go but maybe use the delicates cycle until brittle enough to crack between the teeth. I may even weigh before the steep, after the steep and when dry just to be sure.
I'd love to malt all my own grains including specialty. There's nothing better than accomplishment. It's what the male brain survives on!
Cheers.
I'd love to malt all my own grains including specialty. There's nothing better than accomplishment. It's what the male brain survives on!
Cheers.
OP
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COLObrewer
Well-Known Member
Sun drying works great, place them on an elevated screen with another screen on top to keep the birds at bay, move them around once in a while as in all drying.
I put two 60 watt light bulbs turned on in the bottom of the oven with the oven off. I also turned the oven light on. I spread the grain on baking sheets in as thin a layer as possible and put a thermometer on the grain to keep track of the temp. This worked well for me. I also mixed the grain up once a day to help bring the moist grain trapped at the bottom of the pan to the top. I was using 12 lbs of grain and that is probably max capacity without more racks for my oven. I think I actually let it dry for 3 or 4 days.
But use these guides :
Above 90f and below 120f for 1-5 days.
Im not sure why most of the guides Ive read say to make sure the temperature rise for kilning is slow, but between 0.5-2 hours (one said 6 hours to go from 120f-200f!!) to get no higher than 210f for pale malt. I did this keeping an eye on a thermometer in the oven and control the temp by turning the oven on and off.
But use these guides :
Above 90f and below 120f for 1-5 days.
Im not sure why most of the guides Ive read say to make sure the temperature rise for kilning is slow, but between 0.5-2 hours (one said 6 hours to go from 120f-200f!!) to get no higher than 210f for pale malt. I did this keeping an eye on a thermometer in the oven and control the temp by turning the oven on and off.
RickCov said:
Drying for 1-5 days (I don't think it can get too dry so a bit longer doesn't hurt) and then 2-6 hours kilning slowly bringing it up to 170f-210f. I have read no higher than 210f for pale but I don't know how strict that is once its dry the enzymes are a little more protected from heat.
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COLObrewer
Well-Known Member
Here's a quick basic primer for malting/kilning: http://brewery.org/brewery/library/Malt.html
It's got a little history as far as old temp's and methods, etc.
There is alot more info in my helpful links section down there V regarding processes for different malts, specialty malts, etc.
It's got a little history as far as old temp's and methods, etc.
There is alot more info in my helpful links section down there V regarding processes for different malts, specialty malts, etc.
Hello everyone,
I too have been interested in homebrewing from scratch and am more excited than ever after reading this whole thread, lots of great information especially about the drying and kilning processes for specific malts. While I save up for the actual brewing supplies I figured I would have plenty of time to make malts and grow hops.
Just a thought for drying "base malts" or pale malts as they have been called, with diastatic power reserved. I did this about a year ago with some feed barley, no idea what rowage. I made a little ebb and flood device to germinate the grain, basically two storage bins stacked, the lower with a water reservoir and a pump that periodically flooded the upper bin with grain for several hours then drained. To dry the grain used a food dehydrator I found lying around, it looked homemade so I figure someone could build their own if they wanted (I plan to). The box had maybe 6 shelves fashioned from framed window screens and a heat lamp and fan in the back. I don't remember the exact temps and probably depends on the heat lamp (i.e. halogen or reptile lamp) wattage used, but i remember it was around or below 112F.
Hope that generates some ideas!
thanks again for all the great info, keep it comin!
I too have been interested in homebrewing from scratch and am more excited than ever after reading this whole thread, lots of great information especially about the drying and kilning processes for specific malts. While I save up for the actual brewing supplies I figured I would have plenty of time to make malts and grow hops.
Just a thought for drying "base malts" or pale malts as they have been called, with diastatic power reserved. I did this about a year ago with some feed barley, no idea what rowage. I made a little ebb and flood device to germinate the grain, basically two storage bins stacked, the lower with a water reservoir and a pump that periodically flooded the upper bin with grain for several hours then drained. To dry the grain used a food dehydrator I found lying around, it looked homemade so I figure someone could build their own if they wanted (I plan to). The box had maybe 6 shelves fashioned from framed window screens and a heat lamp and fan in the back. I don't remember the exact temps and probably depends on the heat lamp (i.e. halogen or reptile lamp) wattage used, but i remember it was around or below 112F.
Hope that generates some ideas!
thanks again for all the great info, keep it comin!
Subscribed.
I must say, awesome thread.
hector
Well-Known Member
It's very nice that I found this Thread !
Since there is no brewing supply shop where I live , I'm trying to make my own specialty malt at Home using the Oven .
In fact , I've done that two times , but with different results .
The Oven works with Gas and the lowest Temp. is 257F ( 125C ) . I kept the Temp. between 150F and 170F by turning
the Oven on and off for 2 Hours . The green malt was in the Oven during this time ( Uncovered ) and then I brought
the Temp. up to 257F and kept the malted Barley in the Oven for 1 Hour .
During this time , I turned the seeds every 15 minutes and I could smell the malt aroma each time .
It gave me 1 Oz. of Crystal malt . It was crunchy ( although very hard ) and it tasted malty .
I did milling and steeping in water at 160F for 30 minutes , then I topped up to 1 liter .
The Hydrometer read 1.001 and there were no malt aroma !
I boiled it and reduced the Volume to 300 ml . The Hydrometer read this time 1.003 and it tasted a little malty .
By the second Batch , I did exactly the same , BUT I kept the seeds this time ( Covered ) in the Oven at 150F-160F for
2 Hours and then at 257F ( Uncovered ) for 1 Hour .
But , There were no malt aroma as I opened the Oven each time for turning the seeds , although I used more Barley than the first Batch .
It's crunchy , but doesn't taste so malty as the first Batch . I haven't checked the Gravity yet .
What's wrong with the whole Process ?!
Hector
Since there is no brewing supply shop where I live , I'm trying to make my own specialty malt at Home using the Oven .
In fact , I've done that two times , but with different results .
The Oven works with Gas and the lowest Temp. is 257F ( 125C ) . I kept the Temp. between 150F and 170F by turning
the Oven on and off for 2 Hours . The green malt was in the Oven during this time ( Uncovered ) and then I brought
the Temp. up to 257F and kept the malted Barley in the Oven for 1 Hour .
During this time , I turned the seeds every 15 minutes and I could smell the malt aroma each time .
It gave me 1 Oz. of Crystal malt . It was crunchy ( although very hard ) and it tasted malty .
I did milling and steeping in water at 160F for 30 minutes , then I topped up to 1 liter .
The Hydrometer read 1.001 and there were no malt aroma !
I boiled it and reduced the Volume to 300 ml . The Hydrometer read this time 1.003 and it tasted a little malty .
By the second Batch , I did exactly the same , BUT I kept the seeds this time ( Covered ) in the Oven at 150F-160F for
2 Hours and then at 257F ( Uncovered ) for 1 Hour .
But , There were no malt aroma as I opened the Oven each time for turning the seeds , although I used more Barley than the first Batch .
It's crunchy , but doesn't taste so malty as the first Batch . I haven't checked the Gravity yet .
What's wrong with the whole Process ?!
Hector
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COLObrewer
Well-Known Member
Assuming your initial malting process went well, the schedule you have looks good for making crystal malt. However, the crystal malt should have a certain amount of sweetness as well as maltiness.
1. Was the finished crystal malt sweet? If not, maybe the malting process through green malt is at fault.
2. Are you certain during your "stewing" process that you kept the green malt between 150 and 170F? How did you determine this?
3. The temperature should be pretty constant so I don't know how turning on and off a stove is going to affect it.
4. The moisture content of the green malt needs to be appx. 50% when the process begins and I try to keep it high (misting) during the "stewing" period (1.5-2hrs at 150-170F).
5. Did you take some of this green malt through the kilning process to make pale malt? Is it sweet after mashing?
6. Where did you obtain the barley? Is it treated in any way?
Answers to some of these questions may help to determine where the problem lies.
1. Was the finished crystal malt sweet? If not, maybe the malting process through green malt is at fault.
2. Are you certain during your "stewing" process that you kept the green malt between 150 and 170F? How did you determine this?
3. The temperature should be pretty constant so I don't know how turning on and off a stove is going to affect it.
4. The moisture content of the green malt needs to be appx. 50% when the process begins and I try to keep it high (misting) during the "stewing" period (1.5-2hrs at 150-170F).
5. Did you take some of this green malt through the kilning process to make pale malt? Is it sweet after mashing?
6. Where did you obtain the barley? Is it treated in any way?
Answers to some of these questions may help to determine where the problem lies.
hector
Well-Known Member
Thanks a lot that you noticed my question .
My initial malting process was done according to an article titled "Malting Your Own" from BYO magazine :
8 Hours steeping -> 8 Hours air rest -> 8 Hours steeping
At the end , I could see the rootlets and let the seeds germinate using the Oven pan , paper towels and a dark plastic trash bag .
I kept the seeds moist by spraying water on them each time I turned them .
I should say that as we are in the middle of the summer , this process was done at 70-75F and because of that the seeds
were fully and properly modified just in 2 days .
Now , your questions :
1- After stewing and before caramelizing , I tested some seeds with my front teeth and I noticed a little sweetness , but after
caramelizing there were not any noticeable sweetness .
2- I put a Thermometer on the dish cover in the Oven and I could watch it from outside through the Oven door .
3- As I said before , the Oven works with Gas and my only Option to keep the Temp. in the desired range is to turn it
on and off periodically . The Thermometer always read between 150F and 160F .
4- I think the seeds had enough moisture because I steeped them in water for 15 minutes before stewing .
5- I did not kiln them to make pale malt , because I'm an Extract brewer and I need specialty malt for steeping .
6- It's normal 2-row Barley and it's not treated in any way .
Hector
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COLObrewer
Well-Known Member
I'd wager if you had the malt covered in the oven and the thermometer on top of the cover that it was alot more than the desired temperature within the malt, can you place the thermometer in the grains? This is going to be hard to monitor when turning the malts, and even harder to control when you have to turn it on and off for regulation. I wonder if a dehydrator will get to the desired temperature? Good luck with it and let us know if you are successfull.
hector
Well-Known Member
I was thinking about it too and I'm planning to make a small batch of Crystal malt , but this time I'll put the
bulb of the Thermometer inside the dish .
I will inform you of the result .
By the way , I just thought about stewing the seeds , but in another way :
What would you say if I steep the fully modified Barley ( Not milled ) in water at 160F for 1-2 Hours and then caramelizing in the Oven ?!
Hector
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COLObrewer
Well-Known Member
It would convert the starch to sugar but it may get a little sticky and slimy not to mention it still would have the roots and be trying to grow, you may not like the end result as it could be a clumpy mess.
You can try it and let us know how it goes, but I'd suggest fully drying the green malt (to remove rootlets, etc) if you want to go this route, then mashing it whole, then drying again and kilning to your desired color/toast.
You can try it and let us know how it goes, but I'd suggest fully drying the green malt (to remove rootlets, etc) if you want to go this route, then mashing it whole, then drying again and kilning to your desired color/toast.
hector
Well-Known Member
So , the new Results :
I made a new batch of Crystal malt using 2-row Barley and this time I spread the fully modified green malt on the oven pan and
covered the pan with Aluminium foil and put the bulb of the Thermometer under the cover on the seeds .
It was kept at 150-170F for 2 Hours and then , without the cover at 255F for 1 Hour .
It gave me 2.5 times more gravity points than the previous batch !
But , it's still under my expecting Gravity .
I think it can be related to the Barley itself . Therefore , I'm going to buy some 2-row Barley from another seller to see if there
would be any difference in the Results .
Hector
morticaixavier
Well-Known Member
can't remember where I saw it but I read a blog about home malting where the guy rehydrated some pale malt, sealed it in a vacume food saver bag and mashed in the slow cooker. then roasted in oven to achieve desired color
hector
Well-Known Member
As I said , I make Crystal malt using "Green malt" , because I don't have access to any pale malt .
2-row Barley and the kitchen Oven are what I have to make specialty malts .
Hector
hector
Well-Known Member
It can also be made from pale malt .
The difference is that pale malt should be rehydrated before stewing , as it has been dried before .
Hector
morticaixavier
Well-Known Member
You might be able to still use a sealed platic bag (ziplock) in temp controlled water for the mashing step. Course if you are having good luck with the over method no reason to mess with a good thing.
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COLObrewer
Well-Known Member
I would think this method would be easier to control the temperatures as well as be more consistent temperature throughout.
hector
Well-Known Member
I just filled a ziplock bag with 2 Oz. of crystal malt ( not milled ) which I recently made and pushed the air out of the bag and
put it in a Pot , but it stays on the surface of water .
Is it because the seeds are dried ?
Would it be the same with the green malt ?!
Are you sure that I can keep this bag for 1-2 Hours at 160F and no undesired thing will happen to the plastic ?!
Or for example , giving plastic flavor to the seeds ?!
Hector
I just finished brewing my first batch with all home malted and roasted grain (crystal, chocolate malt, and roast barley). I followed all the instructions here, and we came pretty close to our original gravity target (yay!). I dried the grains in the sun during the day and then put them in a food dehydrator at night. I finished curing them in the food dehydrator at a higher setting (140-160). That was all great, but I live in California where energy is $.34/KwH for anything above average usage, and using an electric food dehydrator wipes out all savings from malting my own grain.
Letting it dry in the sun during the day and putting it in the oven with two 60-watt bulbs at night for three nights would cost $1.80 (I don't think I can get 12 pounds in there unless I pile them really deep). I have a gas clothes dryer, and one hour on high costs about $.49 (how many pounds can I dry in there per hour?). Feed barley is only $.40 cheaper per pound than two-row here.
Here are my questions:
1) What do I do at night when the temp drops back into the 70's in the house?
2) What do I do if we get a foggy or cloudy day and I can't put the grain in the sun, but I need to halt the germination to prevent over-modifying?
3) Is there any way to dry it more quickly (say in 12 hours) without reducing the enzymes?
Thanks,
Christine
Letting it dry in the sun during the day and putting it in the oven with two 60-watt bulbs at night for three nights would cost $1.80 (I don't think I can get 12 pounds in there unless I pile them really deep). I have a gas clothes dryer, and one hour on high costs about $.49 (how many pounds can I dry in there per hour?). Feed barley is only $.40 cheaper per pound than two-row here.
Here are my questions:
1) What do I do at night when the temp drops back into the 70's in the house?
2) What do I do if we get a foggy or cloudy day and I can't put the grain in the sun, but I need to halt the germination to prevent over-modifying?
3) Is there any way to dry it more quickly (say in 12 hours) without reducing the enzymes?
Thanks,
Christine
DrJerryrigger
Well-Known Member
My first thought is that you should be thinking about air flow more than heat. As long as the humidity is below 90% you can dry the grain rather well with just a fan. Add sun light to the fan and it will go much faster.
Rip apart your dehydrator and put in a good fan (if it doesn't have one already) and replace the heating element with a very small propane burner hooked to a grill tank.
Mirrors multiply the sun's heating power (don't over do it or you'll have no enzymes and or a fire)
Get a really big heavy object to store solar heat.
hector
Well-Known Member
Have you ever read this :
http://byo.com/stories/techniques/a...rain-brewing/1113-malting-your-own-techniques
Hector
morticaixavier
Well-Known Member
Hector,
I am not sure about leaching issues. I would check out zip lock website and see if they have particular products designed for higher heat. I know there are heat resistant plastic films.
DrJerryrigger
Well-Known Member
You could also use a canning jar. It will take much longer for the inside to get up to temp, but that doesn't matter much, just takes longer.
hector
Well-Known Member
Beside taking a long time for heating , another disadvantage would be that the seeds can not be heated evenly in the canning jars .
Hector
hector
Well-Known Member
Look what I found here :
http://twinorbsbrewery.blogspot.com/2007/10/making-my-own-crystal-malt.html
He used zip lock bag !
Hector
http://twinorbsbrewery.blogspot.com/2007/10/making-my-own-crystal-malt.html
He used zip lock bag !
Hector
i just use my malt kiln and seal the green malt up so it stays humid and it works great. (commercial crystal is made with green malt) i have tried the zip lock bags and you normally end up with sticky malt thats a pain to dry, with the green malt it stays in the grain nicely
hector
Well-Known Member
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COLObrewer
Well-Known Member
Hector, you would need some sort of rotating kiln such as Absinthe's, here is a thread he has for his: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/how-i-make-all-my-own-malt-188337/
i just block the door up so you dont get good drying air flow
hector
Well-Known Member
So , I made another batch of crystal malt and I used this time zip lock bags for stewing the seeds .
It gave me 1.5 Oz. of crystal malt and the same gravity points as the previous batch . The only difference that I noticed is that
it tasted less bitter than the previous batch and there were a slight malt flavor . However , it's still not enough for my 1-liter-Beer ( test batch ) .
Can this be a proof that the problem is related to the quality of the Barley itself ?!
Hector
It gave me 1.5 Oz. of crystal malt and the same gravity points as the previous batch . The only difference that I noticed is that
it tasted less bitter than the previous batch and there were a slight malt flavor . However , it's still not enough for my 1-liter-Beer ( test batch ) .
Can this be a proof that the problem is related to the quality of the Barley itself ?!
Hector
morticaixavier
Well-Known Member
Hector,
I think the only way to eliminate the stewing as the source of your problem would be to kiln a sample of your green malt to pale and see what kind of extract you get from that.
I think the only way to eliminate the stewing as the source of your problem would be to kiln a sample of your green malt to pale and see what kind of extract you get from that.
hector
Well-Known Member
O.K. BUT it would be difficult for me to keep the kiln temperature constant at 176-185 °F for 3-5 Hours .
Besides , then I should rehydrate the pale malt and stew it again !
Or do you mean mashing by that ?!
Hector
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