Auto siphon and bottle filler

Hello. In preparation for my second bottling, I thought I'd ask some questions that I couldn't find in the archives. I recently bottled my first batch using an auto siphon and bottle filler. They seem like nifty contraptions, but the instructions that came with them were pretty ambiguous. It should be noted that no one was around my house on bottling day so I did this all solo, which proved difficult at times.

I read Revvy's thread on bottling (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/revvys-tips-bottler-first-time-otherwise-94812/), and while very informative, it calls upon a different kind of liquid transfer than I am equipped to do. I had the beer in a glass secondary, so I couldn't draw from the spigot as he illustrates.

I did some searches, but haven't seen many posts talk about the bottle-filler tool (long skinny tube with a "button" that dispenses beer once depressed).

First, I had a hard time pumping the autosiphon and pressing the bottle filler at the same time. It took a lot of work to get the siphon going, and I lost of lot of beer all over my kitchen floor. I got maybe 1.5 pumps before it got full of air and wouldn't allow any more pumps. Obviously this was solved by pressing the button down to dispense some of the pent-up air and beer. Am I missing some crucial step here to make this easier and less messy?

Second, the auto siphon was touching the bottom of my carboy and kicking up (previously) settled yeast particulates. There was nothing I could do about this and some of the yeasties (maybe half) found their way into the 40-so bottles I filled. Do you all typically have someone hold the siphon about halfway in the carboy while slowly lowering to avoid yeast kick up? Perhaps someone has invented a nifty strategy to do this process by your lonesome.


Those were my two biggest problems: getting the auto siphon going with the bottle filler attachment affixed and not disturbing a lot of the dead, sunken yeast.

I have not used that technique but save yourself a big headache and get a bottling bucket.

You can find a 5 gallon bucket for $0 - $5. Install a spigot for a few dollars more. Then use your bottling wand, not worry about sucking crap into your bottles and shave a whole lot of grief from your bottling day.

I did bottle out of the carboy on my first batch. I just used a piece of tape to keep my racking cane off the bottom. I didn't like that I had to leave about a half inch of beer in the carboy to avoid bottling the sediment in the last beers. I plan on transfering it to the bottling bucket from now on, if any sediment does get picked up it will get mixed in somewhat evenly with the priming sugar, so you will have an even amount of carb in each bottle. You need some yeast in your bottles in order to carb it.

haighter said:

Those were my two biggest problems: getting the auto siphon going with the bottle filler attachment affixed and not disturbing a lot of the dead, sunken yeast.

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Yup, it's tricky to start a siphon with a bottling wand attached. It's much easier if you have a third arm or a helper to get you going. I've always had a buddy or my wife helping me when I bottled this way so it wasn't a big deal but I did it once on my own and won't do it again.

A bottling bucket really does make things easier, especially if you're flying solo. I built a dip tube as described in Revvy's thread and will be doing it that way going forward.

I formed a wire hook and clamped it to the autosiphon at a level that would keep it just up off the trub layer. Works great. Takes a little trial and error but, easy really.

EvilGnome6 said:

Yup, it's tricky to start a siphon with a bottling wand attached. It's much easier if you have a third arm or a helper to get you going. I've always had a buddy or my wife helping me when I bottled this way so it wasn't a big deal but I did it once on my own and won't do it again.

A bottling bucket really does make things easier, especially if you're flying solo. I built a dip tube as described in Revvy's thread and will be doing it that way going forward.

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You know, I thought about getting a bottling bucket. Interestingly enough, the guys at my LHBS talked me out of it. Their reasoning was threefold:

1) The transfer will lead to a greater risk of oxidation

2) Adding another vessel to the process increases the risk of infection

3) Just takes to long!

Their reasoning swayed me, but I'm thinking of getting one anyways.

An LHBS that DIDN'T sell you an extra bucket... crazy. On that note,

1-if you don't splash your beer you will be fine, run it down the last inch or so of the side until it gets full enough to keep the end of the tube under the beer.

2- If you sanitize well, no worries

3- it is only 2 more minutes...

I just had my first bottling experience and it was relatively painless (considering how much people gripe about it ). I was also transferring from a carboy and used a racking cane, hose and bottle filler (I decided to be cheap and not get an auto-syphon). My brother helped with getting the syphon going (used a funnel to fill all the tubing with water), but otherwise only needed one person.

To keep the racking cane off the bottom I used a bag clip (could have been a clothes peg, small vise, whatever), which was good because I forgot the to put on the little red end. Edit: Oh, mparmer already said that

I haven't used an auto-syphon so I'm just guessing, but based on my experience you might want to open the bottle filler (by resting it in a bottle with the end pressed in?) then pump the auto-syphon until the hose is all full of beer and has started flowing by itself (pick up the bottle filler before the bottle it's in overflows!). Once the syphon is started it completely takes care of itself, so it sounds like something is very wrong if you have to keep going back and pumping.

#1 TIP: Practice in the sink first. It took me a few tries to get the hang of things and I would have cried if that had been my poor cider.

I just did this for a few batches, and I love it. The secret is to ALWAYS keep the bottling wand BELOW the level of the bottom of vessel you are bottling from. Once you get the flow going through the auto-siphon, you should never have to pump again. That's the magic of gravity. I have the bucket of beer on the counter, and I sit on a low stool to bottle.

The other thing, as someone already pointed out, is that transferring to a second container without the yeast cake is ideal. If you can't, then at least make sure the auto-siphon doesn't rest on or touch the bottom -- use tape or some kind of clip to keep it a couple of inches or more off of the bottom. Then, once you get to that level, prop up the vessel on one side to tilt it, re-affix the autosiphon to a better position in the deep end of the tilted vessel, and you really should be able to get just about all the beer out. Yeah, the last one or two may get yeasty -- mark those somehow, and taste them later. if you can't tell the difference, you've just learned something!

Good luck!

I missed this thread, but this question/idea comes up every week or so....Usually asking about bottling directly from the primary or secondary, whether or not said vessel has a spigot on it.

The problem with bottling from a primary or secondary instead of using a bottling bucket, is that since you have patiently gone and let your beer settle and clear, in order to mix the priming solution and beer effectively, you would have to stir it in the carboy..which would a) kick up all that nice sediment you have patiently let fall, b) possibly oxydize the beer.

Go to a hardware store and get a translucent or white bucket...but look for one where the 5 gallon mark falls way below the top of the bucket. Usually it will say 5 gallons at 3rd band from the top. (oh get the lid too....I totally regret not getting it when I did.)

Then get a spigot and make a dedicated bottling bucket. It really defeats the purpose of both a long primary/no secondary or a secondary if you have to stir up all the nice sediment you patiently waited to settle just so you can have consistent carbonation.

Mine is the translucent Leaktite brand 5 gallon container with the gallon and liter markings from Homedepot.



Here's a pic of mine from my bottling thread.



But if you try directly from the primary/secondary you will have unsatisfactory and frustrating results and possibly even cardboard tasting beer.

Are the Leaktite buckets and other inexpensive ones food grade, or doesn't it matter for the short time beer is in them?
thanks
drano

haighter said:

Hello. In preparation for my second bottling, I thought I'd ask some questions that I couldn't find in the archives. I recently bottled my first batch using an auto siphon and bottle filler. They seem like nifty contraptions, but the instructions that came with them were pretty ambiguous. It should be noted that no one was around my house on bottling day so I did this all solo, which proved difficult at times.

I read Revvy's thread on bottling (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/revvys-tips-bottler-first-time-otherwise-94812/), and while very informative, it calls upon a different kind of liquid transfer than I am equipped to do. I had the beer in a glass secondary, so I couldn't draw from the spigot as he illustrates.

I did some searches, but haven't seen many posts talk about the bottle-filler tool (long skinny tube with a "button" that dispenses beer once depressed).

First, I had a hard time pumping the autosiphon and pressing the bottle filler at the same time. It took a lot of work to get the siphon going, and I lost of lot of beer all over my kitchen floor. I got maybe 1.5 pumps before it got full of air and wouldn't allow any more pumps. Obviously this was solved by pressing the button down to dispense some of the pent-up air and beer. Am I missing some crucial step here to make this easier and less messy?

Second, the auto siphon was touching the bottom of my carboy and kicking up (previously) settled yeast particulates. There was nothing I could do about this and some of the yeasties (maybe half) found their way into the 40-so bottles I filled. Do you all typically have someone hold the siphon about halfway in the carboy while slowly lowering to avoid yeast kick up? Perhaps someone has invented a nifty strategy to do this process by your lonesome.


Those were my two biggest problems: getting the auto siphon going with the bottle filler attachment affixed and not disturbing a lot of the dead, sunken yeast.

Click to expand...

Did you get the bottle wand with the spring on the end? If so... toss it... they suck for this exact reason. They have better ones that work just by the force of the beer. The cheaper ones work much better.

JVD_X said:

Did you get the bottle wand with the spring on the end? If so... toss it... they suck for this exact reason. They have better ones that work just by the force of the beer. The cheaper ones work much better.

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I disagree completely. I used to have a springless wand and the last time I used it, the valve would randomly get stuck open.

Insert wand to fill bottle.
Lift wand when it reaches the rim.
Beer keeps flowing.
DOUBLE. YOU. TEE. EFF!!!

That farking bastard of a bottling wand was promptly destroyed with extreme prejudice as soon as that batch made it into the bottles. Well, mostly into the bottles. Far more ended up on the counters and down the sink than usual. I can still feel the hate and anger just thinking about it.

Never again. A spring loaded wand for me, thank you very much.

JVD_X said:

Did you get the bottle wand with the spring on the end? If so... toss it... they suck for this exact reason. They have better ones that work just by the force of the beer. The cheaper ones work much better.

Click to expand...

I've never had a problem with my spring tipped bottle filler. It's never gotten stuck open or closed. Occasionally some hop or tube may get stuck in it, but it only takes a second to clear it rinse it and re-sanitize it.

One other small tip regarding bottling. I used to put the bottling bucket on the chest freezer and then place the empty bottles onto the concrete floor. Killed my back and knees. Then one day I figured out that if I put the bottling bucket on top of the stand up freezer, and the empty bottles on top of the chest freezer I was good to go.
Much easier. Good Luck...

+1 on using bottling wand with the spring -- it only fails if it gets full of gunk, which happens if you are sucking a ton of yeast cake through the siphon or spigot. I've never used the spring-less version, but I've very happily bottled hundreds with the spring-ed one, and it hasn't given me any problems.

I thought the shiphon auto or otherwise had a nice offset on the bottom designed to keep you off the trub. I've only had one beer so far I needed to be off the bottom a bit and that was yuri's thunderstruck and that's because of the pumpkin..

I use a non-spring loaded, and never had a problem. But this is a pretty small detail.

The big detail being: GET A BOTTLING BUCKET. If you don't, you'll have either a beer with a lot of sediment, or uneven carbonation. You put the priming sugar/liquid on the bottom, then rack on top of it and you get a good mix with no oxidation and no sediment.

Pretty much everyone does it this way, and they do it this way for a reason. It's cheap, it's easy, and it produces good results.

dracus said:

I thought the shiphon auto or otherwise had a nice offset on the bottom designed to keep you off the trub. I've only had one beer so far I needed to be off the bottom a bit and that was yuri's thunderstruck and that's because of the pumpkin..

Click to expand...

Yes, it does, but if you just jam the autosiphon on the bottom, the movement of the liquid coming into the tube still kicks up some sediment the whole time it's going. I am really thinking about taking that little guy off, and just paying attention to where I stick the tube, because that guy makes it hard to suck the last of the beer off the top of the compacted trub.

drano38 said:

Are the Leaktite buckets and other inexpensive ones food grade, or doesn't it matter for the short time beer is in them?
thanks
drano

Click to expand...

I'd like to know the answer to this too.

chew said:

I'd like to know the answer to this too.

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They are fine to use. There''s a lot of info on here about the safty of using one (as well as homer buckets). I wouldn't be using one if it wasn't. Besides even if there were issues, it is a short contact time on the beer anyway.

Revvy said:

I've never had a problem with my spring tipped bottle filler. It's never gotten stuck open or closed. Occasionally some hop or tube may get stuck in it, but it only takes a second to clear it rinse it and re-sanitize it.

Click to expand...

Have you used with an auto siphon? How do you keep the spring valve open while pumping the auto siphon?

JVD_X said:

Have you used with an auto siphon? How do you keep the spring valve open while pumping the auto siphon?

Click to expand...

No, as you can see from my bottling thread I have my wand hooked up to my bottling bucket's spigot.

Revvy said:

No, as you can see from my bottling thread I have my wand hooked up to my bottling bucket's spigot.

Click to expand...

I guess I should have qualified my original statement. It appeared to me that when I read the OPs question that he was experiencing what I had experienced.

The spring loaded tips don't work with auto siphons because you don't have three hands - two to pump with and one to hold the spring tip down. I can see that it would work very well with your setup.

+1 on bottling bucket. I wouldn't work without it. I mix my sanitizer in the bottling bucket, put in my tip, hoses, racking cane, etc... put a little sanitizer in spray bottle for while I work. Lay everything out to dry, shake the sanitizer in the bucket a few minutes and dump. Pour in priming solution and start Auto-siphon on carboy, gently running into bottling bucket by having tube laying in a half circle on the bottom. Once it's done, I pick the bottle bucket up on the counter and attach hose with spring loaded bottling tip to the spigot and sit on the floor bottling and capping. I can do this quick and painlessly all by myself (although I prefer to have a buddy capping).

Easy Peasy... I have not had any infections (knock on wood), carbonation has been good and even, no oxidation due to transfer, no mess, and it's quick cleanup.

Edit: This also adds one extra small layer of clearing although by tilting gently you can get most of the liquid out of the bottling bucket while leaving as much trub as you want.

Revvy said:

They are fine to use. There''s a lot of info on here about the safty of using one (as well as homer buckets). I wouldn't be using one if it wasn't. Besides even if there were issues, it is a short contact time on the beer anyway.

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Thanks Revvy.

JVD_X said:

I guess I should have qualified my original statement. It appeared to me that when I read the OPs question that he was experiencing what I had experienced.

The spring loaded tips don't work with auto siphons because you don't have three hands - two to pump with and one to hold the spring tip down. I can see that it would work very well with your setup.

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I respectfully disagree -- you only have to pump once, at the beginning, to get the beer flowing. After that, as long as the bottom of the wand is below the bottom of the bottling bucket, you never have to pump again. It is a one-person job; either that, or my imaginary friend who has been helping me is very real, and I need to get a refund from my therapist.

peripatetic said:

I respectfully disagree -- you only have to pump once, at the beginning, to get the beer flowing. After that, as long as the bottom of the wand is below the bottom of the bottling bucket, you never have to pump again. It is a one-person job; either that, or my imaginary friend who has been helping me is very real, and I need to get a refund from my therapist.

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We must be on different worlds... this definitely does not work.

I like the $3.00 home made auto siphon. when I bottle wine I keep the bottling wand off the bottom of the wine bottle, and get the wine flowing and clamp off the extra tube. Press the wand against the bottom of the bottle and viola, it starts the siphon. Same thing going from fermenter to bottling bucket with beer..... I bottle just like revvy describes in his bottling thread....read it, it is a life saver!

OHIOSTEVE said:

Press the wand against the bottom of the bottle and viola, it starts the siphon.

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How do you get the wine going when the end is closed by the wand poppet?

JVD_X said:

We must be on different worlds... this definitely does not work.

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Next time you're in South Carolina, you'll have to swing by and bottle with me. We'll RDWHAHB and watch gravity do its thing.

JVD_X said:

How do you get the wine going when the end is closed by the wand poppet?

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A-ha! I think I see where the disconnect is here.

Yes, at the very beginning, it does help to have a helper, but I have figured out a way to both hold the wand spring down while at the same time pumping the auto-siphon to start it. I didn't think about this because my solution was actually a two-fer, and I hadn't thought about this aspect of it for a while.

So: even though the bottom of the auto-siphon _can_ rest on the bottom of the bucket or carboy, I don't want it to. I use some duct tape (sanitized!) to affix the autosipon to the inside of the bucket, so that the bottom is an inch or so off the bottom of the bucket (I'll take a picture when I have a chance and my stupid co-worker gives me my camera back). The result is that the autosiphon is firmly attached to the bucket, and I only need one hand for it -- to pump it up and down. Meanwhile, I sit on a stool and hold a bottle between my legs, and with my other hand I put the wand into the bottle and press down the spring against the bottom of the bottle. that is when I reach up (the bucket is on the counter) and give it a couple of pumps with my free hand to get it going. You are right -- this is tricky. But it isn't impossible to use an autosiphon and a spring-loaded bottle filler with just two hands.

I have all of my bottles sanitized and laid out within reach, so as soon as that first bottle is finished I remove the wand, put the full bottle down, pick up the second bottle and put the want in it. I've never had a problem with the flow not starting again once I push the wand down to the bottom of the bottle, as long as the bucket is above the level of the bottle.

(Near the end, I pause the whole process and prop something up under the side of bucket opposite the side where my auto-siphon is affixed. I guess I could do this first, but I don't for whatever reason. Then I start the process again exactly the same way and fill the rest of the bottles.)

JVD_X said:

How do you get the wine going when the end is closed by the wand poppet?

Click to expand...

You have three tubes connected by a T ......one end has the racking cane.....one has the wand... one is open but has a clamp on it. Put the cane into the wine or wort ...lift the wand off of the bottom so it is closed and you can get a siphon...put the third end in your mouth and suck until the wine starts to flow down. Clamp the tube shut quickly and then press the wand to the bottom of the bottle or carboy and it runs perfectly.

OHIOSTEVE said:

You have three tubes connected by a T ......one end has the racking cane.....one has the wand... one is open but has a clamp on it. Put the cane into the wine or wort ...lift the wand off of the bottom so it is closed and you can get a siphon...put the third end in your mouth and suck until the wine starts to flow down. Clamp the tube shut quickly and then press the wand to the bottom of the bottle or carboy and it runs perfectly.

Click to expand...

that will certainly work as well, but with an auto-siphon (which I think you said you had) you can skip the sucking part.

Revvy said:

No, as you can see from my bottling thread I have my wand hooked up to my bottling bucket's spigot.

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OK Revvy, I gave your method a shot his weekend. It works.

It isn't for me but it works.

JVD_X said:

OK Revvy, I gave your method a shot his weekend. It works.

It isn't for me but it works.

Click to expand...

Well, the title, or theme of my thread isn't "bottle the way Revvy does," it's try different things out and find out what works for you and then nail your process down so that you are comfortable with bottling, so it is less of a "chore" and something you can do in no more than an hour.

JVD_X said:

OK Revvy, I gave your method a shot his weekend. It works.

It isn't for me but it works.

Click to expand...

So what DOES work for you?

You should never be siphoning off of a yeast cake into bottles. You CANNOT get your priming solution properly mixed into the beer and if you are using drops of tabs you are much too likely to pull yeast cake into your beer using a racking cane or siphon tube. It is incredibly simple to siphon into a buck first where you only have to worry about over aerating the beer in the first few seconds of the siphon and then you can focus on getting as much beer as possible without getting into your trub. If you are using bulk priming adding the priming solution to the bucket first will ensure good mixing and if you are using tabs/drops you can start another siphon (or use the beer already trapped in the siphon tubing) to fill your bottles and extract as much beer as possible from the bottling bucket without worrying about getting trub into the bottles.

What I have done for the 4 beers that I have bottled is to ferment for the first 3-6 days in a primary, then rack to a glass carboy and kick up some of the sediment. Then, when bottling time comes around, I rack back into a clean primary and leave the rest of the sediment, add priming sugar, and bottle using the autosiphon and hose clip. The clip is frustrating to get the timing at first, but it will never jam up on you... unless you break it or something.

Bdogg said:

What I have done for the 4 beers that I have bottled is to ferment for the first 3-6 days in a primary, then rack to a glass carboy and kick up some of the sediment. Then, when bottling time comes around, I rack back into a clean primary and leave the rest of the sediment, add priming sugar, and bottle using the autosiphon and hose clip. The clip is frustrating to get the timing at first, but it will never jam up on you... unless you break it or something.

Click to expand...

Not a particularly bad procedure but I would suggest a couple changes. I would wait until your fermentation has completed before siphoning to a secondary/bright tank (or just forgo the step all together.) By waiting a little longer you won't have to kick up any already flocculated yeast to get a good finishing gravity. The other thing you should be doing is adding the priming sugar/water mix to the bucket before you siphon the beer over. This will guarantee a good distribution of the sugars without having to stir.

dantodd said:

Not a particularly bad procedure but I would suggest a couple changes. I would wait until your fermentation has completed before siphoning to a secondary/bright tank (or just forgo the step all together.) By waiting a little longer you won't have to kick up any already flocculated yeast to get a good finishing gravity. The other thing you should be doing is adding the priming sugar/water mix to the bucket before you siphon the beer over. This will guarantee a good distribution of the sugars without having to stir.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I'm always for a little insight. The reason I do it this way is because they are the instructions that came with my first beer kit. I just brewed my first AG batch so I may switch it up. It's been in the primary for 3 days.