A Pub wants my brew

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Stark

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Location
Riverside, CA
So, I found a couple of threads on here, but I could not really garner too much from them except this seems like this Dream might turn out to be a bit nightmare'ish. The owner of a local pub (Not a brew pub) out here in Riverside, California, has stated that he wishes to sell one of my more popular brews to his patrons. I met with him and explained a lot of different things to him, but most of all, not exactly knowing how to do this legally in California. Currently I'm thinking if this is do-able, then I should easily be able to kick out 20 gals to his pub per/month and still have room for my other brews.

I guess the short is, where do I go from here gang? Help? :confused:
 
I looked into this at one time but it was Indiana law.. you have to have your own busineess set up and to do so you have to have a liquor license. If you sell without one, then you get a run in with the ATF and do some time. Also to apply as a business the place you brew in needs to be zoned for comercial property.

In theory you can rent a small comercial space, keep your equipment in it, and obtain a liquor license then you should be ok. Theres a lot of time and effort that goes into that though.
 
I do not know how your states statues are written but they probably say you need to apply for and be granted a manufacturer's license that allows you to produce fermented beverages for public consumption. If you know any lawyers around who can look through some of that stuff with you I would start there.

In WI you do not need to own commercial space, but you do need an area that passes health inspection (i.e. lots of stainless and at minimum a separate room for your brewery.
 
I read the other day that a brewing permit from the BATF is like $3K. If that is true, you'll need to get about $62 per 5 gallons out of your beer...just to cover the license.
 
You might want to look into finding a brewery that will do contract brewing. That would probably save most of the licensing hassle and legal fees etc. Required minimum batch sizes might be an issue though.
 
I seem to remember something about you brewing the wort, but letting them pitch the yeast, thus they will technically be the ones making the booze. But I'm not sure if they have the proper license for a brewpub, or if the loophole I describe here is just an urban myth.
 
I seem to remember something about you brewing the wort, but letting them pitch the yeast, thus they will technically be the ones making the booze. But I'm not sure if they have the proper license for a brewpub, or if the loophole I describe here is just an urban myth.

Thats a pretty intresting idea. I will have to look into that one to see if it is even possible in my neck of the woods.
 
Grinder - here is some info for you.... the statute you need is chapter 125. Here is a link about how to obtain the license: Wisconsin.gov - License - Details

Stark - I don't know the laws out there and they are much harder to find than Wisconsins :drunk:

I think in both your cases, it would be easiest for you if you could convince the bar to apply for a brewpub license and let you set you brewing stuff up in a corner or in the basement. In Wisconsin a brewpub applicant must first hold a restaurant license. I hope some of this is helpful...

EDIT: Evan!- in WI the statutes demand that the entirety of te brewing process be carried out on the premises for which the license was granted.
 
There are differing laws for brew pubs, breweries, and distributors. IIRC, if you supply the beer to a brew pub, you qualify as a brewery and/or distributor, and there is likely a large annual volume requirement (something like 10,000 gallons per year - designed specifically to keep us "little guys" out of the biz). However, if you can get away with being a "brew pub," the volume requirement goes away, but other limitations probably apply (like brewing on the premises of the restaurant). I don't have the law books in front of me, and the laws surely vary by state, so you have a lot of homework to do!
 
technically as far as i know arnt we only allowed to brew 200 gal per year in the us without a license in any state?
 
you brewing the wort, but letting them pitch the yeast

Maybe I'll let my wife pitch the yeast so "I" won't go to jail LOL

brew 200 gal per year in the us without a license in any state?

OH OH - I hope it is only HAVING 200 gallons on hand LOL


Thanks Boerderij Kabouter - helpful
 
technically as far as i know arnt we only allowed to brew 200 gal per year in the us without a license in any state?

TOTALLY different story. The simple answer to your question is yes, but if you sell it the gub-ment will cut off your nay nay's.

What we're talking about here is actually supplying a restaurant with beer to sell.
And Yuri is right about brewing on their premisis....might be just the thing...have them convert to a brew pub...and you brew for them.
 
So it is easier to be a brewpub the a brewery - interesting - now I have to learn to cook and wait tables also! MAN I'm going to be busy!
 
And Yuri is right about brewing on their premisis....might be just the thing...have them convert to a brew pub...and you brew for them.

Would probably be the best route.

They get to absorb the legal hassle/costs this way. They're already up to snuff as far as health codes (or at least closer than you). Give them a cost per batch flat rate to pay you and do it all on their premises. If it's successful you might be able to do it full time, if not you're able to walk away without huge losses.
 
So, just wondering, probably going to get my nose re-arranged for this, but what if I 'Give' the beer made to the guy and he takes 'Donations' per pint?
 
So, just wondering, probably going to get my nose re-arranged for this, but what if I 'Give' the beer made to the guy and he takes 'Donations' per pint?
No one here is going to re-arrange your face or even call the authorities, but that's a pretty big gamble to take with something that may be considered a federal offense.
 
To the OP: You need a Type 23 License. I've researched some of this in the past and have a buddy that used to work for the ABC. It's $100 bucks up front, $149 per year, and a $104 transfer fee.

Not sure what the local requirements are for you though. Typically ABC is only one hurdle of many but good luck.
 
NOPE! I'ts all about how much you actually MADE that year...so really...stop writing the date on the damn bottles.
They can't prove when you made it....I have a LOT of beer that a "FRIEND" gave me. And Plenty of store bought beer that "The Labels Fell Off"

:D

its pure genius. Or just get the official drunk when they come out to ticket you....Cops drink too

300 bucks for a license isnt that bad....besides you could pull royalties from sales...
 
Ok - here's the real deal for California in 8 easy steps.

1. Find a place for your brewery. It can't be in a residence or an attached garage.

2. Contact your local planning department and convince them that your brewery is not a zoning violation. Offer to voluntarily limit your production if they give you a hard time. Beg if you have to. This is the biggest obstacle.

3. Go to the Cal. ABC and apply for a type 23 "Small Beer Manufacturer" license. It allows you to commercially brew up to 80,000 bbl a year. I takes about 45 - 60 days and will cost you about $450 with the first year's fee. After that its about $150 a year. You have to meet with them and they'll give you a sign for your window. Hope no one in your neighborhood sees it and if they see it they don't file an objection.

4. Apply to file a Brewer's notice with the TTB. This is more of a pain than everything else. You will need to post a tax bond of about $1,000. You can either post cash or get a bond issued on collateral. They've got a list of places that issue bonds. This takes about 45-60 days.

5. Apply to the Cal excise tax board and to pay.gov to open excise tax accounts.

6. Learn the COLA system and how to get label approval.

7. Wait for stuff in the mail.

8. Brew beer and live hapily ever after rolling on a big pile of money with many many beautiful women.

A few other tidbits: You don't need FDA approval or inspection, although your brewery is subject to inspection by the CA ABC or the TTB. If you brew with anything other than malted grains (wheat, rye, and the normal stuff are included), yeast, water and hops you'll have to submit your recipe for approval (ie. chocolate stout, etc). You'll have to figure out a way to separate "tax paid" beer from pre-tax beer. You can only give away beer under specific circumstances. The fire department may want to review your rig and brewery premises.

There's more stuff but I can't remember at the moment.

...yeah...I passed the bar...and this post is probably the most useful thing I've done with it...

Gordie
 
Not sure what the local requirements are for you though. Typically ABC is only one hurdle of many but good luck.

The license sounds straight forward enough. But can you give me an idea of any other hurdles if the Dep of Alcohol is only the first hurdle?
 
So, just wondering, probably going to get my nose re-arranged for this, but what if I 'Give' the beer made to the guy and he takes 'Donations' per pint?

I heard of a small brewery doing something similar to get around the taproom laws. They were allowed to have a small taproom but unable to sell full pints. They were only allowed to give away samples. So what they did was a raffle. Kinda like those duck in the pond games at the fair where you pick up a rubber ducky and if it has an orange dot on it you win. Well in this case you would win a pint.

That way you pay for the draw but not for the beer. If im not mistaken they had to quit that practice in a hurry or loose thier license.
 
Ok - here's the real deal for California in 8 easy steps.

1. Find a place for your brewery. It can't be in a residence or an attached garage.

2. Contact your local planning department and convince them that your brewery is not a zoning violation. Offer to voluntrailly limit your production if they give you a hard time. Beg if you have to. This is the biggest obstacle.

3. Go to the Cal. ABC and apply for a type 23 "Small Beer Manufacturer" license. It allows you to commercially brew up to 80,000 bbl a year. I takes about 45 - 60 days and will cost you about $450 with the first year's fee. After that its about $150 a year. You have to meet with them and they'll give you a sign for your window. Hope no one in your neighborhood sees it and if they see it they don't file an objection.

4. Apply to file a Brewer's notice with the TTB. This is more of a pain than everything else. You will need to post a tax bond of about $1,000. You can either post cash or get a bond issued on collateral. They've got a list of places that issue bonds. This takes about 45-60 days.

5. Apply to the Cal excise tax board and to pay.gov to open excise tax accounts.

6. Learn the COLA system and how to get label approval.

7. Wait for stuff in the mail.

8. Brew beer and live hapily ever after rolling on a big pile of money with many many beautiful women.

A few other tidbits: You don't need FDA approval or inspection, although your brewery is subject to inspection by the CA ABC or the TTB. If you brew with anything other than malted grains (wheat, rye, and the normal stuff are included), yeast, water and hops you'll have to submit your recipe for approval (ie. chocolate stout, etc). You'll have to figure out a way to separate "tax paid" beer from pre-tax beer. You can only give away beer under specific circumstances. The fire department may want to review your rig and brewery premises.

There's more stuff but I can't remember at the moment.

...yeah...I passed the bar...and this post is probably the most useful thing I've done with it...

Gordie

thanks for all that info! good to know.
 
Ok - here's the real deal for California in 8 easy steps.

Pardon my crude German, but holy ****! Ok, yea, a bit on the Nightmare'ish side. And if I was to run those ropes, I might as well maintain a brew pub of my own just to make the effort worth the reward. Just stinks, thought this might be a nice way to have the brewing pay for itself.
 
Actually, if you can get by the local zoning issue, the rest is mostly paperwork. The ABC and TTB applications can run at the same time, so its possible to go full commercial in about 45 days.

Just focus on step 8 and everything else falls into place...
 
damn.... us Texas guys got the shaft! One more reason I hate the TABC we have here!

Alcoholic Beverage Code Title 3, Ch. 12
-
Brewpubs are not allowed to distribute (self or otherwise) in Texas. Shipping breweries can self-distribute if they manufacture less than 75,000 bbls of beer per year. You need a manufacturer's license in Texas to make "beer" defined as less than 4% ABW. You need a brewer's permit to make "ale" defined as more than 4% ABW. The 75,000 bbls is calculated as total "beer" and "ale". (synopsis provided by brewer)
 
Totally not worth it for the business.

I wasn't serious!
Like...DUH!

duh-duh.jpg
 
Wow what a timely set of posts! my wifes' youngest (technically my stepson) aspires to have a brewpub in the not too distant future (though realistically it will be at least a decade), and the idea was tossed around that I could offer up some of my better brews for sale. Makes for a very interesting read. though. My main interest in his plans was to make sure I could collect enough to pay for my brewing supplies (essentially giving me free beer, with license to experiment and improve recipes).
 
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