Ah! Infection! Arg! Panic!

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Bradinator

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In the 20+ brews I have made I have never had an infection and today when I went to bottle my brew I found to my absolute horror that a small white growth had shown up on top of the beer.

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My first reaction was "NO! IMPOSSIBLE!". My second reaction was sadness. And my final reaction was acceptance.

I very, very carefully removed the white growth with a sanitized cup and have started to rack the beer to bottles anyway.

First question: What type of infection was this?

Second question: Is my beer safe to drink or am I going to poison myself?
 
i doubt that you made anything poisonous. give it a few weeks and pop a couple bottles open...if after a few pints you start feeling a bit dizzy...YOU MADE BEER!!!!
 
Looks like a wild yeast growing on the top. It looks a little "fuzzy" that are reminiscent of yeast hyphae/psuedohyphae. Rack from below and bottle. It should be fine.
-Jefe-
 
It did not appear fuzzy in the least. More like a hardened white film. It kind of reminded me of dry paint floating in the beer.

After I skimmed it out of the brew I racked from the bottom as carefully as I could. I also did not prime the beer as it seemed to be very carbonated already. It smells good and the small sample taste I took did not seem at all bad (actually it was quite good) so maybe I just need to RDWHA(semi-infected)HB
 
I have had this happen on two different beers, I just rack from under it and it is fine. One of the beers that had that growing has been in bottles for a good 4 months and it is not overcarbed, and no bottle bombs. This is a rdwhahb situation.
 
its so hard to to ever think that this liquid will ever touch your lips after staring at the space creatures living in/on it when you crack your fermentor open....then you remind yourself what you learned in zymurgy 101 and you realize that it's not that bad.
 
Looks fine. Nothing poisonous grows in beer. Maybe lacto bacillus. But regardless, nothing to worry about.
 
I searched through some of the other threads and found several other infections that looked like this but never found its name or type. Is there a chance it could also be mold as it was sitting on the top of the beer?
 
NOTHING PATHOGENIC CAN GROW IN BEER!

If there was stuff that could live in beer and kill you, the human race would have died out a hell of a long time ago! If something toxic could come from our homebrewing, it wouldn't be a legal hobby!


I came across this from a pretty well known and award winning homebrewer railing against a fellow brewer (it was on one of those "color coded" brewboards where they are a little less friendly than we are.) I just cut and pasted it and stuck it in a file...here it is.


Can you get a PATHOGEN from beer. No. NO *NO* Did I make that clear? You have a ZERO chance of pathogens in beer, wine, distilled beverages. PERIOD!

Pathogens are described as organisms that are harmful and potentially life threatening to humans. These are some 1400+ known species overall encompasing viruses, bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and helminths. Of that group, we are only interested in those that can be foodborne. Quite simply, if it can't survive in food, it isn't in beer. That knocks out all but bacteria and fungi. Viruses need very specific circumstances to be passed around... like on the lip of a glass or bottle, not the beer in it. **Ahhh...CHOOO!**

Pathogens as a rule are very fastidious beasts. Meaning that they want very specific temperatures, acidity, nutrients and other conditions to thrive.

Bacteria that *could* live in wort, cannot survive even a little bit of fermentation. There are several reasons for this. One is in the 'magic' of hops. It is the isomerized alpha acids that provide a preservative effect to the beer, which happens to inhibit pathogens! Good deal for fresh wort!

Another reason is the drop in pH from fermentation. Next, yeast emit their own enzymes and byproducts, all in an effort to make the environment hostile to other creatures. The major one is alcohol, of course, but their enzymes will break down less vigorous organisms and they become sources of trace nutrition. Now the latter is very minor compared to the effect of alcohol, but it exists! Most of the time these enzymes work on the wort, not organisms until late in the process. Good deal for beer! ...uh, wine too.

Oh, Botulism specifically... did you know that this is an anaerobic pathogen? It's toxin is one of the few that is broken down by boiling. Did you know tht it is strongly inhibited by isomerized alpha acids, even in water? Since fresh wort has a healthy amount of oxygen in it, the beastie cannot even get started, then once the O2 is used up, it doesn't have a chance against the hops or the yeast.

All that is left are a handful of acid producing bacteria that'll ruin a batch of beer. Overall, there are less than 200 organisms that can survive in beer and lend flavor effects. None of these for very long, or very often. Lambic being the sole exception, and if pathogens *could* survive, that'd be the style where you find 'em.


It's important to remember that one of the reasons we have beer today (one of the oldest beverages in existence) is because it was made to be drunk in places where drinking the WATER was deadly....By boiling the wort, adding hops (which is an antiseptic), changing the ph, and pitching yeast, you killed of any microorganism that good be harmful.....in fact the third runnings of the brewing process was fermented at an extremely low gravit 1-2% ABV, and it was called "table beer" or "Kid's Beer" this is the stuff that people drank with meals...it was their water replacement, like Iced tea or soda pop...because again the fermentation process insured thatit was safer than the water.

So please, please, please, I can't stress this enough....don't fear you beer!!!
 
Of course it should be emphasized that while beer can't contain anything pathogenic, wort and beer during the earliest stages of fermentation can contain some very nasty bacteria, including Clostridium spp. and Enterobacter spp. They are killed off very fast by the ethanol once fermentation really gets going.
 
I would have drank it all anyway, but thanks for the info. Glad to here that any off flavours this may create will disappear in the future.

Also very glad to see its just something benign like Lactobacillus. If its good enough for yogurt, its good enough for my beer.

Thanks everyone! I have RDWHAHB at least 3 times today.

:mug:
 
The brown gunk

--------Edit---------

I don't know why all I put was 'the brown gunk'. I was sure I had a full sentence. I expect too much of myself at before 8:00am.
 
I also did not prime the beer as it seemed to be very carbonated already.

Didn't prime? I think you'll find it's flat by the time you open the bottles.

Unless it was still fermenting when you bottled abd producing more cO2, whatever carbonation was in the beer will probably come out of solution and fill the headpace of the bottles.
 
In hindsight I regret not priming it, but I swear when I looked at it from the fermenter it appear to be heavily carbonated already. My reasoning at the time was flat beer was better then bottle bombs and no beer.

I guess we will see how it turns out in a week. I did try a bottle last night and seemed to taste fine, albeit very flat.
 
In hindsight I regret not priming it, but I swear when I looked at it from the fermenter it appear to be heavily carbonated already. My reasoning at the time was flat beer was better then bottle bombs and no beer.

I guess we will see how it turns out in a week. I did try a bottle last night and seemed to taste fine, albeit very flat.

If you are unsatisfied with the carbonation level, get some of those carb-tabs (Muntons and Coopers both make some) crack the bottles open, drop the correct amount of carb-tabs in and re-seal.
 
If you are unsatisfied with the carbonation level, get some of those carb-tabs (Muntons and Coopers both make some) crack the bottles open, drop the correct amount of carb-tabs in and re-seal.

Only if the beer is essentially flat. Even with a little carbonation, it'll start gushing if you throw anything in there.
 
This morning I got up to place a couple bottles of this in the fridge for tonight and found that the same white filmy mold has formed in every single bottle. I guess this means when I racked it I took the infection to the bottles. This double sucks because not only can I not enjoy my beer tonight I am now going to need to sanitize the hell out of everything to make sure I don't start getting a reoccurring infection.

I would rather not poor this down the toilet, but in its current state I do not see myself drinking it. I am considering trying to eisbock it. I doubt that freezing will kill the infection, but at this point I am desperately trying to salvage this beer.

I searched through the forums but never really found a "how-to" as far as eisbocking goes. I assuming I just freeze it then thaw it collecting melt into another bucket, which leaves a portion of the water behind.
 
Yes, it tastes fine if not a bit on the raw side (I had a bottle a couple days after racking it, nothing had grown at this point). No it did not gush, but I never primed it. I have never seen a kruasen form in a bottle and never seen one that was a milky white film that sits on top of the beer.

When I took the swig this morning I got a mouth full of lumpy mold as well, but swallowed it anyway. It tastes fine no doubt, but the mold is there and is not helping the mouth feel. My concern now is that this growth is going to continue to grow and leave the beers undrinkable.

I guess I could wait it out and see what happens. I bought the carb-tabs as suggested by RIT Warrior and was planning to prime the beers this morning. I could continue down this road and hope that it turns out well. I know time can fix most things beer related so maybe I am over thinking it.
 
So glad I did not pour this one out. A few weeks in the bottles and a week in the fridge to settle the stuff on the top to the bottom of the beer made this is a very nice beer to drink. Nothing unpleasant in the flavors at all!

Thanks for the advice!
 
Keep an eye on the carbonation. It may get fizzy and you may need to consume this fast.
 
Had this same thing with my 3rd brew. Posted on here too. Got 2 bombs out of it. And had the same milky film in the bottles. Got them all to the fridge as soon as I could and they turned ok. I just have to pour them super slow.
 
I've had this happen on three or so batches. I'm convinced it is lacto. I've found as long as you bottle it then it won't get too sour but over time you can get some slight sourness and flavor degredation. Had you left it in the fermenter exposed to air it probably would have gotten more sour over time. If you give it a few weeks in the bottle the pellicle should drop out and you won't know it's there. I have never had a problem with bottle bombs or gushing from that.

It seems like dark beers are more prone to getting infections. Probably because they typically have residual sugars left behind by the yeast that get broken down and consumed by bacteria.

One thing you need to do is thoroughly clean and sanitize everything that touched that beer. Fermenter, bottling bucket, hoses, racking cane, etc. I'd recommend giving it a long oxyclean/PBW soak for cleaning, followed by heavy starsan bathing. You might want to briefly boil any tubing and spouts you can to help kill off the bacteria that may have worked into the plastic. (A few minutes to get past pasturizing temperatures is enough; too long and the plastic will start to get soft and lose shape -- a real problem for keeping airtight seals on hoses and spigots.)
 
I had the same type of thing when I tried to dry hop a pale ale with the left over hops I harvested that didn't quite dry out properly. Got the exact same type of white layer, except mine was less concentrated across the surface. Bottled it up and gave most of it away and it was one of the best brews of that summer!
 
I sanitized everything with a fresh 2x strength Starsan mix. I have brewed and bottled one more beer since, using all the same equipment and the infection never came back, so I am pretty sure I got it.
 
I sanitized everything with a fresh 2x strength Starsan mix. I have brewed and bottled one more beer since, using all the same equipment and the infection never came back, so I am pretty sure I got it.

Yup, I nuked that fermentor and carboy that I dry hopped in with a strong bleach/water/vinegar solution and never had a problem with the lacto again...acetobacter is another story and another origin haha
 
I just had this happen to me, white flakey crust like paint, what a disapointment.Thought maybe it was from s-33 yeast from being new to it,shure was a great tasting one though i did a Dumone dupage clone, had the highest final gravity ive had 1.018 im use to 1.01's , i did mash high, also ive been getting mold around my plugs i think it was due to having a blowoff with a few other fermenters in a closed tub-cuz i dont like bugs snooping around. I noticed a small black dot with a fuzzy white surrounding in my airlock water also. \
I was going to scoop it but decided against and just stuck my autosiphone in quickly, i did see a few bits in my botteling bucket, guess ill keep these in a rubbermaid and refrige them after good carbonation.Instead of long conditioning them like all my others.
 
Had this same thing with my 3rd brew. Posted on here too. Got 2 bombs out of it. And had the same milky film in the bottles. Got them all to the fridge as soon as I could and they turned ok. I just have to pour them super slow.

How long did it take for the bombs?
 
I think the first one was around the 3 week mark. The second one was maybe 5-6 weeks. Woke me up. Lol
 
I was a little concerned for bottle bombs myself and only used a single Munton's carb tab in about half the batch. With that said both seem to be becoming semi-carbonated. That strange milky film has disappeared in nearly all of them now, leaving just traces of it. Probably all sank to the bottom. The beer is still quite good though
 
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