Does rye scorch easily?

sailipo · Jan 4, 2015

While brewing a rye stout yesterday I noticed the aroma of burned toast during the boil. I recently built, and was using, one of those "heat sticks" found on other threads here on the forum. I use the "heat stick" to increase the vigor of my boil and have not noticed this aroma with other styles. The wort of this rye stout came out with a slightly scorched flavor and the electric element was coated with a hard, burned crust (see the attached pic).

Was just wondering if the rye was the culprit and why would rye burn like this and not other malts.

Any ideas?

Sippin37 · Jan 6, 2015

No idea, that is a head scratcher right there!

Talgrath · Jan 8, 2015

In my experience, rye reacts just like any other grain as far as heat, certainly none of it has shown up on the bottom of my pot any more than normal, that said I don't use a heatstick.

singybrue · Jan 9, 2015

I think rye does scorch easier-it happened on my last 2 brews, using 2 different electric set-ups(element & Induction).
Denny's Wry Smile IPA was the recipe on both.

sailipo · Jan 10, 2015

Thanks, singybrue, for the confirmation.

So how did those brews turn out? Could you taste any "smokiness"?

I went back thru your posts and found that pic of scortching in the bottom of your brew pot. I use the identical induction equipment and wanted a more vigorous boil, hence the 1500w "brew stick" addition. Usually works like a charm.

My recipe only had 2 lbs Rye Malt in it. Today I rack to secondary. We'll see.

singybrue · Jan 10, 2015

The 1st one was the induction burner beer. It got dumped. I smelled the scorching during the brew, so I was suspicious, but I was hoping it was just some wort that splashed out and got between the pot and burner. When I starting pouring into the fermenter and saw big black chunks going in, then the bottom of the pot, I knew it was screwed. In fact, my wife even commented during the boil "that doesn't smell like it usually does"
I know what went wrong, I applied heat during the mash without stirring. I think the grain flour collected on the bottom and burnt.

The 2nd time was on the same day but on my original PicoBrew(now BrewBoss) system. It's in the fermenter now, so I don't know yet if it's affected. I didn't smell anything off during the brew or transfer. I just saw some crustiness on the element during cleaning that I haven't had before. It wasn't anywhere near the crustiness on your photo, though.
I just started the cold crash today, so I should know in a few days if it's OK or not.

RM-MN · Jan 11, 2015

Rye has a high beta glucan index which makes a very sticky mash. These beta glucans are probably what you got burned onto the heating element. A beta glucan rest is often used to reduce the amount of these sticky molecules. This is an excerpt from "How to Brew" by John Palmer.

The other enzymes in this temperature regime are the beta-glucanases/cytases - part of the cellulose enzyme family, and are used to break up the beta glucans in (un)malted wheat, rye, oatmeal and unmalted barley. These glucan hemi-celluloses (i.e. brambles) are responsible for the gumminess of dough and if not broken down will cause the mash to turn into a solid loaf ready for baking. Fortunately, the optimum temperature range for the beta glucanase enzyme is below that for the proteolytics. This allows the brewer to rest the mash at 98 -113°F for 20 minutes to break down the gums without affecting the proteins responsible for head retention and body. The use of this rest is only necessary for brewers incorporating a large amount (>25%) of unmalted or flaked wheat, rye or oatmeal in the mash. Sticky mashes and lauters from lesser amounts can usually be handled by increasing the temperature at lautering time (Mashout). See Chapter 17 - "Getting the Wort Out - Lautering" for further discussion.

I don't know if this will solve the problem but I'm pretty certain it will help.

sailipo · Jan 12, 2015

Thanks RM-MN

I'll try adding a 100°F 20 min rest next time I brew a rye.

I'll also be adding some rice hulls to the mash for permeability. This recipe has rye @ 25% of the total grain bill and @ 1.3 qts water per lb grain the mash was thick. I'll also increase the water to 1.5 qts per lb grain for the mash.

I really enjoy the rye type brews and want to continue to use the electric element in my boil for the extra heat. I don't enjoy ruining a good recipe w/ bad technique. All help is appreciated.

singybrue · Jan 12, 2015

Ditto the thanks.
I noticed the mash was thicker on these brews-gummy is a good description.

Does rye scorch easily?

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