Pliny the Toddler

I am totally into session beers lately, as I can drink 4 of them and still have be able to function. But I LOVE Pliny the Elder, and this clone recipe is my favorite: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/pliny-bastid-21229/

I make 10 gallon batches, and this time I want a wee bit crystal/caramel character in it, but with all of the hops flavor and aroma that Pliny is noted for. I'll use Wyeast 1056 in 5 gallons, and probably 1272 in the other 5 gallons, or 1335.

Anyway, here's the recipe I came up with. It does seem like quite a bit of crystal malt, but I'm going to mash low (150) to get full attenuation and I think 8% crystal would be ok with all of the bittering hops. (I hope!)

12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 52.2 %
9 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 39.1 %
1 lbs Caramel Malt - 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM) 4.3 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) 2.2 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) 2.2 %
3.00 oz Chinook Mash 60.0 min (homegrown chinook hops)

1.00 oz Chinook [11.50 %] - First Wort 90.0 min 23.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.80 %] - Boil 90.0 min 26.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Simcoe [12.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min - 38.8 IBUs
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [12.30 %] - Boil 30.0 min 33.3 IBUs
4.50 oz Centennial [9.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min
2.00 oz Simcoe [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min
2.50 oz Centennial Dry Hop 5 Days (homegrown)
2.50 oz Columbus Dry Hop 5 Days
2.50 oz Simcoe Dry Hop 5 Days

What do you think?

I think with all of the bittering (and dry hops) you should be ok with the crystal. I will say that I am always very careful with crystal though, I've had a IIIPA finish dry with massive amounts of hops and still seem a bit sweet from crystal malt.

If it were me, I'd probably loose the 40L, but other than that I like this recipe enough to preemptively add it to my reference collection

brettg20 said:

I think with all of the bittering (and dry hops) you should be ok with the crystal. I will say that I am always very careful with crystal though, I've had a IIIPA finish dry with massive amounts of hops and still seem a bit sweet from crystal malt.

Click to expand...

Yes, me too. But, on the other hand, I've done a Surly Furious clone that had more than 11% of crystal, but was well bittered and the crystal and bitterness balanced perfectly so I'm open to using more than I normally do in an IIPA.

The thing that I'm wondering about is if I should sub in some simple sugar instead of a pound of malt to ensure it does finish dry enough. But I do want a firm malt backbone to hold up to the bitterness- just in a lower ABV version. Hmmm- Maybe a pound of Munich malt instead of one of the pounds of UK two-row?

It's definitely a work in progress, but I plan on brewing Tuesday so I still have about 36 hours to change my mind and listen to input!

You can always add some sugar with the crystal to make sure it isn't too sweet...

Yea you beat me too it. I don't think you will lose the malt backbone by adding some sugar...maybe add some Vienna?

Yooper said:

Yes, me too. But, on the other hand, I've done a Surly Furious clone that had more than 11% of crystal, but was well bittered and the crystal and bitterness balanced perfectly so I'm open to using more than I normally do in an IIPA.

The thing that I'm wondering about is if I should sub in some simple sugar instead of a pound of malt to ensure it does finish dry enough. But I do want a firm malt backbone to hold up to the bitterness- just in a lower ABV version. Hmmm- Maybe a pound of Munich malt instead of one of the pounds of UK two-row?

It's definitely a work in progress, but I plan on brewing Tuesday so I still have about 36 hours to change my mind and listen to input!

Click to expand...

I Really like the Munich Malt Idea, I have used up to 3 lbs of it in a recipe and it came out great, even though I'm not a hop guy, I think the Munich would work.

You could always compromise on the sugar and just do a 1/2 lb.

Cant wait to here how it comes out!

Cheers

brettg20 said:

Yea you beat me too it. I don't think you will lose the malt backbone by adding some sugar...maybe add some Vienna?

Click to expand...

That's probably the one base grain I don't have! :cross:

Yooper said:

That's probably the one base grain I don't have! :cross:

Click to expand...

I use both all the time, in various beers. You really can't go wrong either way with the amount you plan to use. Munich is a bit more "Maltier" and Vienna is a bit more "Toasty" IMO. The only reason I would go with Vienna (if you had it) is it is lighter in color so you could get more of the flavor without changing the color.

Either way it looks good, I like your hop schedule. I brewed a Pliny clone a while back and dry hopped in 2 stages, 5 days each. I believe it was a younger clone though.

Especially with the mash hops, lose all mid-boil hop additions. Move your 90 minute into your FWH. This will save you some effort. No need for a 45 or 30. Get your bitterness/IBUs up front then save the rest for flavor/aroma. Almost all commerical hoppy beers do this.

You have a nice ending in terms of hops, and a great profile from your bittering additions, there is no need for the mid-boil additions IMO

Yooper said:

What do you think?

Click to expand...

I think you should send me several samples for taste testing.

Calichusetts said:

Especially with the mash hops, lose all mid-boil hop additions. Move your 90 minute into your FWH. This will save you some effort. No need for a 45 or 30. Get your bitterness/IBUs up front then save the rest for flavor/aroma. Almost all commerical hoppy beers do this.

You have a nice ending in terms of hops, and a great profile from your bittering additions, there is no need for the mid-boil additions IMO

Click to expand...

Good idea! I was sort of copying my Pliny recipe with those earlier additions (which do come through a bit).

I decided on this:

12 lbs pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
8 lbs pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM)
1 lbs Caramel Malt - 20L
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
3.00 oz Chinook (homegrown)- Mash 60.0 min
1.00 oz Chinook [homegrown] - First Wort 90.0 min
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.80 %] - Boil 90.
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [12.30 %] - Boil 15
2.00 oz Simcoe [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min
4.50 oz Centennial [homegrown] - Steep/Whirlpool
2.00 oz Simcoe [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool
1.0 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) in one vessel
1.0 pkg Burton IPA (Wyeast Labs #1203) in one vessel
2.50 oz Centennial [homegrown] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days
2.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.10 %] - Dry Hop 5 days
2.50 oz Simcoe [5.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days

I have some new Burton IPA yeast (special release from Wyeast) that I am dying to try, and although it's not an English IPA, I like the idea of putting it side-by-side with American ale yeast II. Both should flocculate and clear the beer well, and that's something I really like.

I plan on racking this beer for dryhopping, to save these yeast strains.

I'm at mashout now, and the smell in the brewery is so awesome! I love the way those chinook hops smell.

I have most of the hops weighed out, and realize that I don't have enough columbus for dryhopping. I have about an ounce left, so I think the dryhopping schedule will change (adding some chinook) but that's in the future and I"ll worry about it much later!

Wow, I bet that smells good. My desk smells like Taco Bell. You win

I prefer Chinook to Columbus in the DH...too much Columbus in the DH always seems overpowering to me; I haven't hit the "too much Chinook" point yet. Just my taste and experience though.

TyTanium said:

Wow, I bet that smells good. My desk smells like Taco Bell. You win

I prefer Chinook to Columbus in the DH...too much Columbus in the DH always seems overpowering to me; I haven't hit the "too much Chinook" point yet. Just my taste and experience though.

Click to expand...

I like the way you think! (not about the Taco Bell, though)

My homegrown chinooks are exceptionally fragrant and I love them, so it's reassuring that it'll be great in the dryhop instead of the columbus. I want a mix of dank/pine/citrus, and I bet I won't miss the columbus in the dryhop then.

We got a ton of chinooks in 2013. I forget how many pounds, but I'm using them for mash hopping, bittering, late hopping, etc, and I have LOTS left so that's been great fun.

So, I put this in the fermenter about 3 PM yesterday. As I was chilling, I looked at the wort in the kettle, and there was a huge oil slick on the wort.

All of those hops oils created a big oil slick.

I took a taste, and it's going to be great I think! It was a little surprising because Pliny wort is generally pretty sweet with all of that simple sugar but this was more straight up bitter and hoppy.

It's fermenting now at 64 degrees, a little cooler than I wanted but it's pretty cold in my house right now.

I kegged this today.

It finished at 1.010, both the Burton yeast and the 1272.

It's really nice and clear, with a huge hops flavor and aroma.

I'll sample in a day or two, to see how it is, and then hopefully have a nice IPA for the weekend!

What was your OG?

WI_Wino said:

What was your OG?

Click to expand...

It was 1.059, so it's at 6.4%. That's a bit high for a session beer, but I wanted big malt flavor too to balance the huge bitterness (100 IBUs-ish).

I would like to know how this turned out. I will be doing a Pliny the Toddler this weekend, but I am using the recipe out of the Zymurgy magazine that has been floating around the interwebs for a few years. I am just looking for reviews of this beer as I will be serving it at my sisters wedding.
I am curious of a few different characteristics. I will be bittering with warrior. How do the columbus and chinook hops taste in this recipe.

Also what taste differences did you notice between the two different brands of yeast?

Just looking for a general taste review. I am shooting for OG of 1.048. Dont want too many drunk asses at the wedding.

Dylan42 said:

I would like to know how this turned out. I will be doing a Pliny the Toddler this weekend, but I am using the recipe out of the Zymurgy magazine that has been floating around the interwebs for a few years. I am just looking for reviews of this beer as I will be serving it at my sisters wedding.
I am curious of a few different characteristics. I will be bittering with warrior. How do the columbus and chinook hops taste in this recipe.

Also what taste differences did you notice between the two different brands of yeast?

Just looking for a general taste review. I am shooting for OG of 1.048. Dont want too many drunk asses at the wedding.

Click to expand...

It was really great. It disappeared very quickly. I really like columbus and chinook, and didn't find it harsh at all- but it has this nice not-quite-dank piney citrus that was awesome.

I preferred the 1272 by a slight margin, but they were close enough that I wouldn't rule out the Burton.

Nice! Thanks for the response, I'm brewing mine tomorrow morning so I'm hoping for great results as well!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew