No chocolate malt! What can I sub?

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Yooper

Yooper

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I want to brew tomorrow. I want to brew Janet's Brown Ale. I have about 2-3 ounces of pale chocolate malt but NO regular chocolate malt. I thought if I could sub a little (but not too much) roasted barley, even adding it at the end of the mash to avoid some of the excess roasty flavor, in the amount of 2% or so might give me a "close enough" flavor.

I'm definitely NOT an expert on roasted, chocolate, or black barley. Can anybody give me some input? Thanks so much!
 
Oh. Well then that is of no help to you then. In that case I would agree with you using a small amount of any of those late in the boil. What about steeping them at flameout?
 
Celticway said:
Oh. Well then that is of no help to you then. In that case I would agree with you using a small amount of any of those late in the boil. What about steeping them at flameout?
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I meant late in the mash. But the steeping could be good also.
 
I'd use the pale chocolate in combination with the briess roasted barley. It wont be the same, but I think that it will contribute the least "burnt" flavors, unlike the black barley or the english roast barley which is considerably darker (600+Lov?) than the domestic.
 
Yooper said:
I want to brew tomorrow. I want to brew Janet's Brown Ale. I have about 2-3 ounces of pale chocolate malt but NO regular chocolate malt. I thought if I could sub a little (but not too much) roasted barley, even adding it at the end of the mash to avoid some of the excess roasty flavor, in the amount of 2% or so might give me a "close enough" flavor.

I'm definitely NOT an expert on roasted, chocolate, or black barley. Can anybody give me some input? Thanks so much!
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What quantity does the original recipe call for?
 
Since you're brewing tomorrow, there probably isn't enough time, but if you wanted to live dangerously you could try toasting/roasting some pale malt to the desired chocolatelyness!
 
Yooper said:
Only 8 ounces of regular chocolate malt. I have about 2-3 ounces of pale (which I like much better!).
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Yooper said:
I only have roasted barley (Crisp), Briess black barley, and Briess roasted barley. :mad:
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Unfortunately I don't think any of the products you have on hand are acceptable substitutes for chocolate malt. Those grains are all a form of roasted barley and they are all more roasty and acrid tasting than chocolate. If you really want to get more of the original color you could try maybe three ounces of the black barley and hope that amount won't affect the flavor too much. Another option is just to leave it alone and live with a lighter colored version of the beer. If you have some pale malt and feel adventurous you could try roasting a little and making your own version of black patent malt.
 
BigEd said:
Unfortunately I don't think any of the products you have on hand are acceptable substitutes for chocolate malt. Those grains are all a form of roasted barley and they are all more roasty and acrid tasting than chocolate. If you really want to get more of the original color you could try maybe three ounces of the black barley and hope that amount won't affect the flavor too much. Another option is just to leave it alone and live with a lighter colored version of the beer. If you have some pale malt and feel adventurous you could try roasting a little and making your own version of black patent malt.
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Darn! I had a feeling that would be the consensus. What I might do is just add the roasted at the end of the mash, for some color. A hint of roast is fine, and I actually find chocolate malt a bit roasty, but I don't want it overly roasty.

Thanks everybody for the hints and advice!
 
Well, it's no longer Janet's Brown Ale but here is what I"m ending up with after digging around in the grain bin:

10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 72.36 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 9.04 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 7.24 %
12.0 oz Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.43 %
4.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 1.81 %
3.0 oz Crisp Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 1.37 %
3.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 1.37 %
2.1 oz Chocolate malt (pale) (200.0 SRM) Grain 0.94 %
1.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 0.43 %

1.00 oz Northern Brewer [10.20 %] (0 min) (Mash Hop) Hops
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [10.20 %] (60 min) Hops 28.6 IBU

1.00 oz Northern Brewer [10.20 %] (15 min) Hops 14.2 IBU
1.50 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (10 min) Hops 9.2 IBU
1.50 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -

2.00 oz Centennial [9.60 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
 
Well, this beer just didn't want to get made but I soldiered on!

I checked the preboil gravity as always- 1.044. Er, 60%? After years of 72%? Ah, well. So I dropped the amount of bittering hops slightly and moved on.

OG of 1.052 is ok, but I was expecting 1.065! Ah well. The wort tasted and smelled great, and the color is pretty much what I hoped.

I have to come up with a name at some point. It definitely ain't no Janet's Brown Ale anymore! :D
 
I was thinking it is also sorta like a "not-so-robust porter" :p

But, skinny chipmunk does have a nice ring to it! (Kinda like Pliny the younger...)
 
Yoop, I met Tasty McDole about a month ago at a Beer Revolution/Oakland event; the dude is a trip! (& super nice).

Your grain bill looks like: "clean out my closet before it goes stale". ha ha.
 
midfielder5 said:
Yoop, I met Tasty McDole about a month ago at a Beer Revolution/Oakland event; the dude is a trip! (& super nice).

Your grain bill looks like: "clean out my closet before it goes stale". ha ha.
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Yeah, it was random stuff that I had. In my defense though- I just purchased the roasted barley and the black barley. It just came last week from Brewmaster's Warehouse.

The thing is, I can't remember why I bought it. :drunk:

Please don't tell Tasty that I stole his recipe, mutilated it, lowered the OG tremendously, but still kept his hopping schedule and tried to pass it off as Janet's Brown! I'm so ashamed. :D
 
Shooter said:
Yeah, it's definitely a deviation from the Janet's Brown recipe.

I would call it Jack Rabbit. Brown and hoppy, hee, hee!!!
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Jack Rabbit. That may be what I call it. We'll see when it's finished if it's worthy of a cute name or not. I mean, it might be better suited to "Toilet Bowl Ale" once it's done. Sort of schizophrenic- roasty, but not really roasty. Hoppy, but bitter too. Hopefully, the roast and hops won't clash and I end up with a great beer!
 
Yooper said:
Jack Rabbit. That may be what I call it. We'll see when it's finished if it's worthy of a cute name or not. I mean, it might be better suited to "Toilet Bowl Ale" once it's done. Sort of schizophrenic- roasty, but not really roasty. Hoppy, but bitter too. Hopefully, the roast and hops won't clash and I end up with a great beer!
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Ah, I'm sure it will be fine. The original Janet's Brown is a fine recipe and this modified version looks good to me!
 
Yooper said:
I don't know if you saw this, but if you look at the picture (http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/community/brewer-of-the-week/show?title=brewer-of-the-week-lorena-evans) you'll see I'm happily displaying a beer that you sent me!
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i did not see that!!! Awesome write up & you look great in all the pics!

We should swap again bc I'm Furiously dying for sum Surly... or whatevs :)
I will keep my eyes open for the shizz.

LOL re: your dislikes bc all I have, homebrew-wise, are sours... & fruit beer, strawberry & a watermelon (not your favs!)
 
Yooper said:
Well, it's no longer Janet's Brown Ale but here is what I"m ending up with after digging around in the grain bin:

10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 72.36 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 9.04 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 7.24 %
12.0 oz Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.43 %
4.0 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 1.81 %
3.0 oz Crisp Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 1.37 %
3.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 1.37 %
2.1 oz Chocolate malt (pale) (200.0 SRM) Grain 0.94 %
1.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 0.43 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [10.20 %] (60 min) Hops 28.5 IBU



1.00 oz Northern Brewer [10.20 %] (0 min) (Mash Hop) Hops
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [10.20 %] (60 min) Hops 28.6 IBU

1.00 oz Northern Brewer [10.20 %] (15 min) Hops 14.2 IBU
1.50 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (10 min) Hops 9.2 IBU
1.50 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -

2.00 oz Centennial [9.60 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
Click to expand...

Wellllllllllllllll, this beer is still in primary but I took a sample.

OMG- it's really good! One big issue is that I only did a 5 gallon batch, so I batch sparged on my HERMS. I had a pretty mediocre crush, but thought "oh well, I'll get 70% efficiency instead of 72%" and said screw it and made the beer. I had a 57% efficiency!

Which sounds bad...........BUT it turns out to be really good because it ended up at 5.6% ABV with a firm bitterness and great mix of hops and slight roasty. I'm absolutely thrilled with this, and I am so afraid I'll never be able to recreate it!

I'm going away tomorrow for a week, but I'll rack and dryhop this when I get back and keg it by Oct 3 or so. It's going to be a great fall beer, and I see it going FAST!

Next time, I might even follow the real Janet's Brown Ale recipe!
 
Well, "Tasty's Recipe" is awesome, and he really deserves all the accolades he gets for his award winner. Mine is a not-too-subtle-clone-but-totally-different rip off that was a cluster****!

I know this will be a one-off as I will never in a million years be able to recreate it. I sure wish I would have made 10 or 15 gallons of this, instead of 5! :mad:
 
I'm drinking a pint of this right now. I used Denny's Favorite 50 for the yeast, and it's absolutely wonderful.

It's light brown in color with a slightly off-white head and great aroma. The mouthfeel is rich and full, but not sweet. It's got a hoppy aroma and flavor, but there is a subtle roast in the mouth and swallow. It has a lingering roast upon swallowing that fades quickly. I think this beer is going to be a house favorite!

Bob just calls it "Lorena's Brown Beer". I think it might be a very good example of an American brown, but it's been ages since I've had a commercial example of a good American brown so I can't really say. I'll have to pull out the BJCP guidelines when I'm totally sober and score it.
 

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