Cloning Redback Australian wheat beer

EDIT: Final recipe is Brown Recluse Kristalweizen or in post #5 in this thread

ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
I'm starting to do some research on this beer (SWMBO's favorite) which I've never had before to see if I can put together a reasonable extract recipe.

Beer Advocate lists it as a kristalweizen, which seems right (SWMBO say's it's clear, not cloudy).

There's a recipe from "Brew Your Own Beer" floating around that uses Kent Goldings but that doesn't seem right. That recipe is 66% wheat/33% light malt extract.

For now I'm just gathering info.

Red Back

Redback is Australia's original wheat beer, brewed from both malted wheat and malted barley, and a blend of Saaz and Pride of Ringwood hops. The combination of quality ingredients and the care taken by Matilda Bay's brewers result in a unique refreshing beer that has a rich creamy mouth feel and a subtle bitterness on the palate.

Style: full strength wheat beer
Alcohol: 4.7%
Carbs: 3.6 grams /100ml
Energy: 172 kilojoules /100ml; 41 calories /100ml
Standard drinks: 1.3 per 345ml
Available: on tap; 345ml bottle

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Figuring out a final gravity would be great, but they don't seem to sell it anywhere in the US that I can find.

What sets Redback apart is its authentic European weizen style of brewing, which involves using a high percentage of malted wheat to malted barley, according to importer's president.

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I see at least one person claim that Matilda Bay uses an ale yeast in this beer.

Ahh, this is good:

Redback is modelled on the weizen beers of southern Germany where, for centuries, this style of beer has been popular, particularly in summer when its refreshing qualities come into their own. Redback is Australia's original wheat beer, brewed from both malted wheat and malted barley, and a blend of Saaz and Pride of Ringwood hops. Pride of Ringwood is added at the beginning of the boil for bitterness, Saaz hops are added five minutes before the end of the boil for a subtle fresh hop aroma. The combination of quality ingredients and the care taken by Matilda Bay's brewers result in a unique refreshing beer that has a rich creamy mouth feel and a subtle bitterness on the palate.
(4.7% alc/vol)
In 1993 Redback was awarded Grand Champion at the Australian International Beer Awards (AIBA). It has continued to collect a number of awards over the years, winning golds regularly at the Australasia International Beer Awards and a distinguished silver at the very highly regarded 2004 World Beer Cup.

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First go at a recipe:

Redcoat Kristalweizen
3 gallon partial boil, 5 gallon batch size:

3 lb light DME
3 lb wheat extract
1 oz Pride of Ringwood @60 mins
1 oz Saaz @5 mins
Safale 04 ale yeast
OG 1.049
FG 1.012
ABV 4.8%
IBU: 23

It'll probably finish higher grav, with slightly lower ABV.

Any thoughts from anyone who's actually ever seen (let alone drank) a Redback would be mighty welcome, as would any other feedback.

Okay, so further research indicates that a weizen yeast is called for. Also, I think it's more like 18 IBUs, and the guys over at AussieHomeBrew thought the finishing hops were too high and the wheat content too low.

Round 2 at a recipe based on all this feedback:


Redcoat Kristalweizen
3 gallon partial boil, 5 gallon batch size:

6 lb 8 oz (~3kg) wheat DME
.8 oz (22.5g) Pride of Ringwood @60min
.35 oz (10g) Saaz @5min
OG: 1.048
FG: 1.012
ABV: 4.7%
Bitterness: 18 IBU
Color: 3 SRM

Yeast: Wyeast W3638 Bavarian Weizen yeast

As before, Irish moss @15 minutes, gelatin in early secondary, crash-cool to clear as much as possible.

Okay, I've found interviews with the brewer that indicate it's 50/50 wheat/barley. I've also confirmed that it's 18 IBUs, and the color is 9 EBC which works out to ~3.8 SRM (call it 4). Those go along with the known 4.7% ABV, Pride of Ringwood @60, Saaz @5min facts to product this (possibly final) recipe:

3 gallon partial boil/5 gallon batch size:

5 lbs/2.27 kg of Breiss Wheat DME (which is 65/35 wheat/barley)
1.5 lbs/.68 kg of Breiss Light DME (all barley, bringing total to 50/50)
.8 oz (22.5g) Pride of Ringwood @60min
.35 oz (10g) Saaz @5min
OG: 1.048
FG: 1.012
ABV: 4.7%
Bitterness: 18 IBU
Color: ~4 SRM
Yeast: Wyeast W3638 Bavarian Weizen yeast

As before, Irish moss @15 minutes, gelatin in early secondary, crash-cool to clear as much as possible.

The major open questions are the yeast, fermentation temp, and whether to filter or just fine and crash. I'm sticking with the latter approach for the first batch, mainly because I don't have a filter on hand. We'll see how clear I can get it.

Okay, final cut that I'm going to try to brew. This one's tweaked specifically for the Briess extract numbers and other particular ingredients:


Brown Recluse Kristalweizen

This is an Australian-style kristalweizen in the vein of the original Matilda Bay Redback. It should be nearly clear (not cloudy), pale, and relatively low hoppiness, with mild to moderate clove esters and low to mild banana esters. This is going to wind up a bit darker in color than a Redback.

Beer: Brown Recluse Kristalweizen Style: Weizen/Weissbier
Type: Extract Size: 5 gallons
Color: 7 HCU (~6 SRM) Bitterness: 18 IBU
OG: 1.048 FG: 1.012
Alcohol: 4.7% v/v (3.7% w/w)
Boil: 60 minutes SG 1.081 3 gallons
1 lb. 5 oz. Briess Pilsen DME
4 lb. 5 oz. Briess Wheat DME
Add the Pilsen DME and a touch of the wheat DME before the boil; add the majority of the wheat DME with 15 minutes to go in the boil.
Hops: .8 oz. Pride of Ringwood (8% AA, 60 min.)
.4 oz. Saaz (3.75% AA, 5 min.)
Yeast: Wyeast W3638 Bavarian Weizen yeast. Pitch a 3l starter cake. Ferment at 62F (over 65 skews toward banana esters in lieu of cloves).
Carbonation: 3.5 volumes Cane Sugar: 6.49 oz. for 5 gallons @ 62°F
3.5 volumes is a touch on the low side for the beer, but on the high side for bottling. If you're kegging, go to 4 volumes.

SumnerH said:

Okay, final cut that I'm going to try to brew.

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I tweaked it a bit just to account for the malt extract I got being 60% wheat instead of 65, but it's been in primary a week now. Took a gravity reading (1.014) and it really has the flavor profile I was going for--I kept the temp in the low 60s, and it's skewing much more "cloves" than "banana". I'll probably rack to secondary in a few days (on gelatin) and then bottle a week later. A little aggressive time-wise, but it's a weizen...

Just bottled it.

It doesn't mean much until we actually taste it, but SWMBO's first comment was encouraging: "This smells just like it!".

We cracked the first one today. It's probably 80% carbed, so shy of the final product, but it tastes good and SWMBO was impressed. I'm hoping she'll have some more critical feedback in a week when it's done. Pretty decent clove notes and some banana in there as well; slightly more yeasty than a good Kristalweizen should be, but I overpoured a bit.

Now how weird is that...I was just reading your thread on the Australian brew board....

Nice. I'm not Aussie, but she is--I joined up over there specifically to get feedback about this one beer. It's her favorite back home and I wanted to clone it for her, but they don't sell it here so I needed overseas help!

Mate, I'm an Aussie living in Alexandria va. I have a 6 pack of redback and I am wanting to brew my own. Let me know if you are still around. I am very keen to get it right! I have managed to get meat pie soughed now just for the beer.