Avangard Pilsner Malt

Has anyone used this malt yet? I'm curious as to how it compares to other German Pilsner malts.

It sounds like it's newly imported from Germany's largest maltser. My LHBS brought in a pallet of it so I picked up 2 sacks. I've only brewed a German Pils with it so far and was planning on doing a Kolsch to get a better idea of flavor profile.

I'm used to using Weyermann Pilsner malt, and have been having doing pretty well in competitions with my lagers and don't want to change too many variables before I start brewing lagers for NHC2014.

I picked up 20 lb to use in a Munich Helles next week. I'm going straight Avangard Pils malt, so I should be able to get a good idea of its character.

I can tell you tasting it next to normal pilsner malt was pretty telling. Way more bread and overall flavor.

I'm excited to use it, needless to say.

I have noticed about a 10% efficiency jump when I use this malt too. I'm typically around 67%, but the 3 times I've used this, it's jumped up to around 77%.

I just saw this at my LHBS - I'm going to do a maibock with 10lb Pils / 2lb Munich. I've been using Durst, so I'll be interested to see the difference. Price is comparable to Durst, and I can get it 10 minutes from my house instead of 40 minutes away.

Haven't tasted the beer yet, but I also noticed good efficiency with Avangard. My Munich Helles is going to be closer to 6% than I wanted it to be. Got 85% efficiency compared to the 80% I usually get.

What pils malt have you used before?

I picked up a sack also, South Hills Brewing still has about 15 or so left so I might stop by for another one. Price is about the same as the Canadian Malting Pils I get in the group buy.

Havent used it yet but Im planning on an Alt and a Belgian in the next couple of months.

I picked up 220 pounds (3 sacks of Pilsner and 1 of Light Munich). I will be brewing a 30 gallon batch with it this weekend. Will post efficiency change - I'm really hoping I get a few percent as I am typically around mid 60's overall BHE with a 30 minute fly sparge (I know I should push it to 45-60)...

Does anyone use pilsen malt in anything besides continental styles? I used it in a Belgian IPA which came out pretty good.

I cant lager so Ive been limited to kolschs, alts, wheats & belgians.

I'll be doing a Pilsner Urquell'esce Lager and a couple of 60% pilsner / 40% light malted wheat sours (BugCounty ECY20).

joyceman said:

Does anyone use pilsen malt in anything besides continental styles? I used it in a Belgian IPA which came out pretty good.

I cant lager so Ive been limited to kolschs, alts, wheats & belgians.

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I don't use pale malt any more, just pilsner malt. I like Canada Malting Premium Pilsner, and Franco Belges Pilsner (and Coffee Kiln malt!). I use the CMC for anything American, ale and lagers alike, and also for rich lagers (O'fest and richer) as this malt seems a little fuller/richer, hence my use of it in ales. I use the FB for European lagers (Ger, and CZ), kolsch, alt and everything Belgian as I find this one lends a nice classic European graininess.

I got to ask the Troegs (Trogner) brothers about their use primary of pils malt for many of their beers and they responded that they like the pilsner malt because they can do anything with it. After that I finally ditched all the pale malt and haven't looked back.

Holy Efficiency Batman!

I just made a Boh Pils with 10lb Avangard Pils and 3oz Acid Malt, and did a Hochkurz-esque double decoction which was somewhat of a disaster. 1.5qt/lb mash thickness, mashed in at 142, rested 15, pulled thick decoction and raised to 158 and rested 15, boiled 15. Added back decoction to raise mash temp to 158, rested 15. Pulled thin decoction and boiled for 15 minutes, added back to mash-out at 170. Except that jury-rigged cooler mash tun sprung a leak and I had to take out all my mash during one of the decoctions... oh vey. Oh, and I had a horrifically stuck mash. Took me 4.5 from heating strike water to beginning of boil.... Long, long brewday.

At any rate, I just checked my gravity after I had 6 gallons in the kettle, and my refractometer told me it was 13 brix, which was perfect for a Boh pils. I usually find my refractometer tells gives me slightly lower than my hydrometer, so I added a gallon of water and half a gallon of my last runnings (4 brix), and ended up tossing a gallon and a half of 4 brix runnings.

I just finished chilling, and my hydrometer tells me that my OG is 1.058!! Holy cow! What do they put in this stuff? I normally get about 85% efficiency, but this comes out as 98% according to my brewing software, assuming normal Pils malt at 35ppg.

I just hope it tastes good.

Has anybody found a malt analysis sheet? I haven't managed to find one yet.

Just ran my first mash with this malt. I thought it did have a decent bready taste. Also I got a lot less protein gunk in the mash than when I use Weyermann or Best, this could be mash pH but I got a decently clear wort and not too much hot break. I also got a bump in efficiency from my usual 75% to close to 85%. I just did a single infusion mash at 149F, I did let it rest for 2 hours.

My homebrew shop picked up this malt recently, and my first batch came out decent, a pils. Malt character of the brew was average as far as pils malts go. Middle of the road. But....

My first batch, the crush was not as good as I wanted, and the yield was poor, as the kernels are smaller. Made some adjustments to the mill, and now as others have stated, the yield for this malt is much better than the Weyerman, Durst, Canadien, or even Belgian Pils malts I have used in the past. Recently, I used 8.5 lbs for a 5 gallon batch of pils, got a 14 Plato OG and 5.5+ gallons of beer in the fermentor. Still trying to dial things in, but using less malt is a good thing! Have now made 3 pils batches, maibock, and o'fest (using 6 lbs pils, 5 lbs Avangard munich) and will post notes about the others as needed. Or check out my site and blog.

I need to try Best malt, but the Weyerman floor malted has had the best malt character that I have found thus far, but it is harder to get and much more expensive.

thegreatmaibockaddict said:

I need to try Best malt, but the Weyerman floor malted has had the best malt character that I have found thus far, but it is harder to get and much more expensive.

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The Weyerman Bohemian Pilsner (and floor malted bo-pils) uses a different variety of barley than non-Bohemian pilsner malts, which is why it's different...

Beezer94 said:

The Weyerman Bohemian Pilsner (and floor malted bo-pils) uses a different variety of barley than non-Bohemian pilsner malts, which is why it's different...

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Yes, I noticed the difference, just didn't make the connection. I have also seen homebrewers mix the Bo-Pils with standard pils malts to get character from both and it worked very well.

Add another data point for seriously increased gravity readings using this grain (Avangard Pilsner).

I'm having a hard time saying that my "efficiency" goes up, as opposed to the potential of the grain is significantly higher than other grains. I would rather deal with this grain using potential/yield than efficiency, otherwise I have to remember to muck with my efficiency anytime a use a recipe with this grain. At this point, I estimate the potential of the grain around 1.041 which is a 89% yield (hard to swallow).

I noticed that the grain is quite a bit harder than most other base malts (golden promise, us 2 rows, ding pils, wey pils), and wonder if perhaps the kernel is "exploding" more in the mill creating a finer grist which makes for higher potential/efficiency. Additionally, I noticed that the husks stayed more intact than is typical with my 2-roller mill. So, kind of a BONUS-BONUS type thing.

Good stuff maynard!

I would agree that is not really increased efficiency, but rather simply a greater potential sugar in the malt itself.

That is why I was wondering if anyone had found a malt analysis sheet. It might be worthwhile writing to LD Carlson to ask them if they have them available. Worst case I can always drive down there, they're only about half an hour away from where I live....

I just heard back from LD Carlson, I've attached the malt analyses.

Looking at the one for the Pils, it looks very similar to the one from Durst, which I've used in the past. If anything, I'd think that Durst would have higher efficiency. (These number have Avangard listed first.) The Durst analysis I'm using is from https://www.maltusa.com/component/virtuemart/durst-pilsner-malt-detail?tmpl=component&format=pdf.

Moisture: max 4.5 vs 4.2
Extract Dry: min 81 vs 82.4
Protein, Dry: 9.3-11 vs 10.7
Soluble Nitrogen: 630-730 vs 749
Kolbach Index: 37-44 vs 43.8
pH: 5.8 for both
Wort Color: 3.0-3.5 vs 3.6
Viscosity: max 1.6 vs 1.48
Friability: min 80 vs 85.6
Final Attenuation: min 80 vs 81.4%

View attachment Pilsener Malt Crop 2013.pdf

View attachment Munich Malt Crop 2013.pdf

View attachment Wheat Malt Crop 2013.pdf

View attachment Caramel Light Malt Crop 2013.pdf

View attachment Caramel Dark Malt Crop 2013.pdf

Good job digging up the malt analysis sheet.

I finally got to taste a sample 100% Avangard Pilsener beer, a Munich Helles. It'll be carbed up later this week. It's got a delicate bread character that tastes pronounced compared to, say, Briess Pilsener malt. Which after using this, I may never go back to using. I've always been a Briess base malt guy, but I can't go back it after brewing through a sack of Crisp Best Ale malt and using these Avangard wheat and pilsener.

@pjj2ba, do you do 90 minute boils for all your beers then or do you not subscribe to the "DMS precursor formation under 90 minute boils for pilsener malt" theory? After my recent malt revelations, I'm interested in pursuing quality pilsener in lieu of pale ale malt for my recipes as well.

I've been doing 75-minute boils for my decocted recipes with Pils malt and haven't noticed any particular DMS. I use an immersion chiller so I can get my temp down below DMS-producing levels very quickly, and I also figure that the time boiling the decoction is removing DMS.

TBH, tho, I've never noticed DMS in any of my beers, although I can definitely smell the corny flavor during the boil when making a Pils, Helles, or Maibock.

QuercusMax said:

I just heard back from LD Carlson, I've attached the malt analyses.

Looking at the one for the Pils, it looks very similar to the one from Durst, which I've used in the past. If anything, I'd think that Durst would have higher efficiency. (These number have Avangard listed first.) The Durst analysis I'm using is from https://www.maltusa.com/component/virtuemart/durst-pilsner-malt-detail?tmpl=component&format=pdf.

Moisture: max 4.5 vs 4.2
Extract Dry: min 81 vs 82.4
Protein, Dry: 9.3-11 vs 10.7
Soluble Nitrogen: 630-730 vs 749
Kolbach Index: 37-44 vs 43.8
pH: 5.8 for both
Wort Color: 3.0-3.5 vs 3.6
Viscosity: max 1.6 vs 1.48
Friability: min 80 vs 85.6
Final Attenuation: min 80 vs 81.4%

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How does this transfer in to potential yield that I'd enter in to Beersmith?

QuercusMax said:

I just heard back from LD Carlson, I've attached the malt analyses.

Looking at the one for the Pils, it looks very similar to the one from Durst, which I've used in the past. If anything, I'd think that Durst would have higher efficiency. (These number have Avangard listed first.) The Durst analysis I'm using is from https://www.maltusa.com/component/virtuemart/durst-pilsner-malt-detail?tmpl=component&format=pdf.

Moisture: max 4.5 vs 4.2
Extract Dry: min 81 vs 82.4
Protein, Dry: 9.3-11 vs 10.7
Soluble Nitrogen: 630-730 vs 749
Kolbach Index: 37-44 vs 43.8
pH: 5.8 for both
Wort Color: 3.0-3.5 vs 3.6
Viscosity: max 1.6 vs 1.48
Friability: min 80 vs 85.6
Final Attenuation: min 80 vs 81.4%

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Thanks for this! Just got a couple sacks... I'm trying to enter it into BeerSmith and wondering if Diastatic Power in BS2 is in Lintner and the spec sheets are in WK if I convert it using:

Any more thoughts on this brand?

tagz said:

Any more thoughts on this brand?

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I've only brewed with it so far. I'll be tasting my first beer with it in about 2 weeks. I'll try to remember to post back my thoughts.

Be brewing with it this weekend... can report back. I just started all grain this past year so not sure if I'll have some great insights but...

I just bought a sack of Pils and one of Munich, plus 10lbs of their Wheat. I have nothing negative to say about it whatsoever. I just kegged my double-decocted Boh Pils (100% Avangard Pils plus a little acid malt), and the hydrometer sample after 3 weeks of lagering tasted fantastic. I'll be force carbonating in another few days, and I'll give an update then. I'm considering entering it into a local competition, and we'll see what the judges say as well.

Bottom line for me:
Tastes pretty much the same as Durst Pils, which formerly was the cheapest base malt I could purchase. But it's cheaper and I get better extraction. No brainer, win-win.

I just picked up a sack of this. I'll be brewing saisons mostly with it. The first one I will probably brew next weekend.

Subscribing to this thread because I'm interested in the results.

WissaBrewGuy said:

I just picked up a sack of this. I'll be brewing saisons mostly with it. The first one I will probably brew next weekend.

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Did you get it from Philly Homebrew? I've brewed 2 batches with it so far, a Saison and a Quad. The Saison is a recipe I am very familiar with, Ive brewed it close to 10 times. My OG was sky high, its usually a 1.050 beer but ended up 1.060 going into the fermenter. Definitely some huge ppg on this malt, so far so good.

I picked up this and a wheat, 55# sacks, reused some Hefe yeast, grabbed a bag of hops and brewed a $12.06 five gallon batch... Can't wait to see how it turns out.

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app

LOVE this malt. YOU will get a higher OG/SG. I have now used this 3 times and my OG/SG has been at a min .15-.20 higher. For instance...my last brew was suppose to be 1.079, came out to 1.100. I actually had to add boiled distilled water to bring it down.

After adding the water and such, I was about 1.088 and now I am currently down to 1.016 using WLP570 belgian yeast. Hoping it finished at under the 1.010 mark.

I order mine from Label Peelers. I actually will be using it again soon to make the Allagash Curieux clone here.

Just tasted my belgian golden strong ale. Will probably rack it to secondary on Sunday. It has been at the 1.016 mark the past 2 days. Will check it again and if it is the same. Will rack to secondary, add my honey and orange zest and be done.

Coff said:

Did you get it from Philly Homebrew? I've brewed 2 batches with it so far, a Saison and a Quad. The Saison is a recipe I am very familiar with, Ive brewed it close to 10 times. My OG was sky high, its usually a 1.050 beer but ended up 1.060 going into the fermenter. Definitely some huge ppg on this malt, so far so good.

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Yeah I did. I just brewed a Berliner wiesse and my efficiency was over 80%!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Home Brew mobile app

I have yet to see those efficiencies... what kinda mills are you guys running this in?

I will probably order the 55lb bag from label peelers here soon. Looks like this is a good pilsner choice.

I have brewed 3 beers with this, 2 recipes I have brewed countless times, both are usually 1.050 Saisons using either Canada Malting Pils or Weyerman Pils. Well all 3 Saisons have come in at exactly 1.060 using Avangard, I just ran with it as opposed to watering down but in the future I will adjust my recipes for this malt.

I plan to buy this again if given the chance.

theck said:

I have yet to see those efficiencies... what kinda mills are you guys running this in?

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The kernels are small, so I had to close my rollers to the max. The crush IS important. My first time using this malt, the crush was poor and my yield was nothing special.

If you cannot adjust your rollers, have the local shop do the crush, but check it to make certain that the crush is fine. The kernels seem to pop and the husk breaks away intact rather well for this malt.

thegreatmaibockaddict said:

The kernels are small, so I had to close my rollers to the max. The crush IS important. My first time using this malt, the crush was poor and my yield was nothing special.

If you cannot adjust your rollers, have the local shop do the crush, but check it to make certain that the crush is fine. The kernels seem to pop and the husk breaks away intact rather well for this malt.

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Ya I noticed that myself but if you go too small then that's bad. I'm at .037 right now. I tried .035 as well but 37 seems to be much better?

theck said:

Ya I noticed that myself but if you go too small then that's bad. I'm at .037 right now. I tried .035 as well but 37 seems to be much better?

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My MM2 is set at .037 and I definitely get higher sugar extraction from this malt than say us 2row or golden promise. I also noticed that the husk attachment to the grain is not very strong, and that the grain tends to break up rather well. I didn't notice the grain size compared to other malts though. I'll need to look at that.

Are you seeing typical efficiencies or less?

You guys must have new fangled crushers! My 20 year old Malt Mill has a screw that you adjust, but you have to adjust by feel and results.