Yeast(?) flavor in extract brew

[topend]

I'm on my third batch of homebrew. The first was a Munton's can (about a year ago) the second a Cooper's Real Ale can (one month ago), both bought from my LHBS.

For the first two, I followed all directions, sanitization, etc., and both batches resulted in a nearly identical tangy aroma and flavor that seems like yeast. It didn't seem to get better with time, and there is no indication that there is some other infection (no scum in the bottle or other abnormality).

I brewed an NB American Wheat (extract) and put it in bottles a few days ago. I tasted a sample during bottling and did not notice this flavor at all. It actually tasted really good. Time will tell if this ends up the same way, as it needs to bottle condition for two weeks.

With the first two batches, I had noticed that sort of "yeasty" flavor at that stage of brewing in the first two batches. I'm curious that I did not notice this flavor in the current batch.

With both can batches, there was good carbonation, was very clear in the glass, basically was great with the exception of this off flavor that my untrained palate is attributing to yeast (it's a flavor I have never tasted until I started homebrewing).

I wonder if this is a common thing with imported can extracts. The changes I made before the NB batch was using a wort chiller (brought from boil to pitch temp in 15 minutes), aerating the wort with a stone for 25 minutes, and blooming the dry yeast in tepid water for a couple hours before pitching. It still took almost 24 hours for noticeable fermentation, which was a little slower than the can batches. I'm wondering if these upgrades (or lack thereof) can lead to this flavor being absent or present.

Any input would be much appreciated. If I can't get rid of this flavor, I don't think it will be worth continuing. My wife doesn't really like the tangy flavor (she otherwise loves beer) and I don't think it's good enough to give to friends/family. I don't care much for it either, and I've got four cases of this beer that I'm not excited to drink. Even if the NB comes out without this flavor, it would be good to know what was causing it so I can avoid it in the future.

Thanks!

 

[dbsmith]

I know exactly what you are talking about. I've made 4 batches of LME beers, and all have had a varying degree of that tangy, yeasty taste. It does diminish with time, but it doesn't seem to fully go away (or I have just not waited long enough..but I have waited 2 and a half months for one of the batches, and the flavor is still there.)

That being said, my most recent batch, I made a dunkelweizen and switched to DME instead of LME, and steeped a good amount of specialty grains, and as far as I can tell tastes much better according to my hydrometer samples. I'm bottling in a few days and hopefully after a few weeks this beer will be my best yet.

Did you use LME or DME on your most recent batch? Hmm..now that I think about it, my LME's have all been imported too like yours.. Someone must have some insight into this.

 

[Yooper]

I don't think you're tasting yeast. Yeast tastes, well, yeasty- like bread dough.

I wonder if you're tasting one of the things I dislike about Cooper's- the fermented sugar at a too-high temperature they recommend on their can. Adding corn sugar thins the beer, and boosts the fermentables (increasing the alcohol) but I can taste it in those kits and don't like it especially if the beer is fermented above about 72 degrees.

As was mentioned earlier, the canned LME could be an issue as well. Fresh LME doesn't have off-flavor problems but the canned stuff does.

 

[topend]

The Muntons was LME (the canned malt) and had a hop packet. The Coopers was all in the can, no separate hops. I used the yeast that came with the kits.

Looking around on the forums, I think it may be an acetylaldehyde issue, because I'm pretty sure I bottled as soon as FG had stabilized, couldn't have been more than a week in the primary. From what I'm seeing, this may have been waaay too little time, and this may have been compounded by weak yeast packets in the kits. I used Safale US-05 for the NB wheat, and I bought that separate (refrigerated from my LHBS). I suspect that the combo of the NB LME and the better yeast may have alleviated much of the problem in my latest batch, although it only sat in the primary for 8 days.

I think to be on the safe side I'm going to leave batches in the primary for at least two weeks, even if I hit FG several days beforehand. And now that I have that flavor in my mind, I will take flavor samples to make sure that flavor is gone before bottling.

As for the Cooper's batch, I think I'll let that sit for a couple months and see if the flavor subsides. Thanks for that tip.

 

[dbsmith]

Hmmm the 'tang' I taste is a mix of a little bit of that yeast 'spice' flavor and a little bit of sweetness as well..it's hard to describe. I think it has to do with the yeast mostly..I just poured a homebrew right now, and I saved the last little yeasty bit of the bottle and poured it into a separate glass, and it definitely has much more of that tangy smell/flavor than my other pint glass does. I've never baked bread before so I can't say for sure that it is definitely that same taste you are talking about Yooper, but I'm pretty sure it is related. Is this the same flavor that you are encountering topend?

 

[topend]

Also, the canned kits called for about 4 pounds of corn sugar. The NB called for none. This may be part of the cause.

 

[topend]

Hmmm the 'tang' I taste is a mix of a little bit of that yeast 'spice' flavor and a little bit of sweetness as well..it's hard to describe. I think it has to do with the yeast mostly..I just poured a homebrew right now, and I saved the last little yeasty bit of the bottle and poured it into a separate glass, and it definitely has much more of that tangy smell/flavor than my other pint glass does. I've never baked bread before so I can't say for sure that it is definitely that same taste you are talking about, but I'm pretty sure it is related. Is this the same flavor that you are encountering?

That's EXACTLY it. The tangy flavor is very pronounced if you drink the last bit from the bottle.

 

[topend]

And I drink bottle-conditioned commercial beers all the time, and this is not the same flavor as the yeast flavor of those beers.

 

[dbsmith]

That's EXACTLY it. The tangy flavor is very pronounced if you drink the last bit from the bottle.

ahhh glad to know I'm not alone. The changes I have made in my latest batch are switching to DME, steeping grains, and to using liquid yeast rather than dry. I still don't know for sure if the taste will be gone, but I can't taste it so far.

 

[dbsmith]

And I drink bottle-conditioned commercial beers all the time, and this is not the same flavor as the yeast flavor of those beers.

Totally true, SNPA has no tang whatsoever.

 

[topend]

For standard OG batches like the ones discussed in this thread, it is worth the time and equipment investment to make yeast starters, or is it enough to rehydrate the yeast in tepid water for a couple hours? I've been reading that you can noticeably improve any beer by starting the yeast before pitch, and I'm wondering if I can combat this tangy flavor issue by starting all yeasts from now on. Any thoughts?

 

[Yooper]

Also, the canned kits called for about 4 pounds of corn sugar. The NB called for none. This may be part of the cause.

This. Boosting the fermentables with sugar is cheap, but it has a weird taste, particularly combined with a too-warm fermentation temperature (above 70 degrees), canned extract, and a bad yeast strain.

Using quality ingredients will fix the issue, so the next batch with be fine!

 

[Yooper]

For standard OG batches like the ones discussed in this thread, it is worth the time and equipment investment to make yeast starters, or is it enough to rehydrate the yeast in tepid water for a couple hours? I've been reading that you can noticeably improve any beer by starting the yeast before pitch, and I'm wondering if I can combat this tangy flavor issue by starting all yeasts from now on. Any thoughts?

You don't want to make a starter with dry yeast. That's only for liquid yeast. But the better yeast strains come in an 11 gram package (not that Cooper's or Munton's junk) and they can just be rehydrated. Not for a couple of hours! It's more like a few minutes. The directions are on the yeast package.

Safale S04 or S05 are good bets, as is Nottingham. Keep the fermentation temperature under 70 degrees, and it'll be good. Throw away any packages of Munton's or Cooper's yeast.