Wyeast 3711 Banana Flavors

[joeyuwp]

I brewed a saison 2 weeks ago and pitched a healthy starter of 3711. Just checked and was down to gravity of roughly 1.000. I don't like the heavy banana taste to it, tasted more like a hefe than a saison. Started fermenting at 68 and gradually rose up to 84 and held. It's not the flavor I was looking for. Will these flavors fade out or am I stuck with them? Anything I can do? Never used this yeast before.


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[joeyuwp]

After thinking about it, took another sample and chilled to serving temp and banana flavors were noticeably less. Still more than I would like though


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[flars]

Have brewed a petite saison twice with WY3711. First time max temp was 68°. Second time max temp was 72°. No banana flavor in either one. Second was more spice and pepper than the first.

Will be brewing another in a few days with 3rd generation harvested yeast.

 

[technicoloraudio]

I use 3711 a lot because I like dry beers and have fermented some in a water bath warmed by an aquarium heater to 86° F. Never had an ester problem, it's a flavor that I don't like which lead me away from 3724 (other than 3724's other issues). That being said, I can't think of anything else that would cause ester development unless something weird happened during wort chill or preboil where you had a ferulic acid boom or a phenol friendly environment.


Ultimately the solution would be to pitch some Brett and rid the beer of it's estery qualities, or enjoy some banana jam.


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[Rambleon]

I brew with that strain a ton and haven't had any noticeable banana flavors. My guess is that once it's cold and carbed it will go away.


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[Beergnomes]

Yeah, just used this strain for the first time myself and I couldn't be more unsure of how this one is going to end up. I thought I had the perfect recipe, grain bill & mash schedule for the style I was attempting and 3711 ate it all. I went from 1.051 to 1.007 in first week then pitched Brett 644 and 3 33.8 oz bottles of pear nectar into a 10 gal batch. Checked gravity 2 days later and was at 1.001. Could have dropped from Brett activity or left over 3711 in suspension or the sheer volume added from pear nectar. Still holding at 1.001 another 2 days later. It smells fantastic but I don't seem to have any residual sweetness. The fruit is there but it's almost as if the 3711 rendered my grain bill and mash schedule useless. Hoping it just needs time to come together. Gimme just a wee touch of sticky sweet sour, but so far ... Nope. Also, how the frell am I supposed to calculate priming when adding after primary?

 

[flars]

Could the banana flavors come from a fermentation temperature that is to high? The optimum range for WY3711 is 65-77F 18-25C.

 

[Hopinista]

Could the banana flavors come from a fermentation temperature that is to high? The optimum range for WY3711 is 65-77F 18-25C.

I've used 3711 in ~12 batches, tried it at all different temperature ranges, one even getting up to 83 and never had banana flavors come out

 

[pdietert]

When you say "gradually rose up to 84", what is gradually? If it rose up that high within the first 24-72 hours, then it is from the high temperature. As flars stated the optimum temperature for 3711 is 65 - 77 deg. F. Any higher than that and you will get unwanted esters, specifically Isoamyl acetate. What you got is generally refereed to as a banana bomb caused by fermenting too high. It might mellow a little but will not fully go away.

I use 3711 quite a bit and keep it within the recommended temperature range. At lower end it gives quite a bit of peppery and citrusy phenols. I have never experienced any banana esters at higher temps but do get a slight Belgian ester profile at the high end. I have never gone above 74-75 deg. F. with it.

 

[joeyuwp]

Started at 68 for first two days, then increased 2 degrees/day after that until got to 84. Heard this on saison episode of Jamil show which may have more been a technique for the Belgian saison strain. After doing some frantic research after tasting the banana, sounds like the ramp up wasn't necessary for 3711. Next time I may start at 68 and only go up to 75 or so by end of first week.

The hardest lessons are the worst tasting.


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[pdietert]

That schedule would not have caused any unusual esters, are you sure you pitched 3711?

 

[pdietert]

Also, the temp. of 3711 does not need to be rampped up. I know other Belgian strains tend to stall or slow down at a certain point but I have never had 3711 stall or even heard of it stalling.

 

[joeyuwp]

That schedule would not have caused any unusual esters, are you sure you pitched 3711?

Yes. Unless package was mislabeled.