Working out off-flavors from warm fermentation--better in primary or secondary?

[ittybittykittycommittee]

Hi all,

First off, thanks for all the knowledge that you've contributed the time to put here for everyone.

I brewed my first batch this weekend (NB's caribou slobber) and fermentation was hot and heavy! I had the carboy in a modified cooler with a cold water bath and swapping out ice packs every few hours. Even then I could barely keep the water bath temp down below (78F) for most of the first day and had to put in a blowoff hose. Fermentation appears to be mostly finished within 30 hours (no gravity readings taken as it is day 2). Lesson learned: have way more ice available (and make a wort chiller to cut back ice needs). I'm sure I'll still have beer in the end.

My question is this: is it better to leave it in primary for the duration, or to move it to secondary as per recipe instructions in order to condition and hopefully take care of some of those esters and fusels that I've likely got now?

 

[BigFloyd]

There's no need to secondary a beer like Caribou Slobber.

Better to leave it on the cake three weeks.

Extended bottle conditioning may help any remaining off flavors.

What yeast did you use?

 

[ittybittykittycommittee]

Thanks. I used the Danstar Windsor dry yeast. I rehydrated it prior to pitching (kit instructions be damned!).

I've been thinking I will leave it in primary for 4 weeks total before bottling, then crack on or two beers at 2 weeks and hide as many of the rest as I can. The OG had some very strong hoppiness to it, which I'm hoping mellows substantially.

 

[TopherM]

Extended bottle conditioning may help any remaining off flavors.

+1......finish the beer as normal, and condition out any off-flavors from the warm fermentation with extended bottle aging. For an average gravity brown like the Carribou Slobber, it is going to take something like 8-12 weeks in bottles to condition out noticible off flavors.

 

[Dralzz]

I'm in the same boat. Caribou Slobber, warm fermentation. 68 degrees ambient, but I guess the inside was a lot warmer. My fermentation was pretty slow and steady. Finished within about for days, I bottled after two weeks in primary. In the future I'll leave it in there longer (or secondary once I get another vessel), but I was impatient for my first beer.

Tasted one yesterday after one week in the bottle (I know, but it's my first beer and I want to taste how it evolves with time). It had some head, but was still a bit flat. It was okay, but had some significant fusel flavors. I may slow down on the brewing until the weather outside gets colder. Summer is a poor time to start.

 

[ittybittykittycommittee]

I'm in the same boat. Caribou Slobber, warm fermentation. 68 degrees ambient, but I guess the inside was a lot warmer. My fermentation was pretty slow and steady. Finished within about for days, I bottled after two weeks in primary. In the future I'll leave it in there longer (or secondary once I get another vessel), but I was impatient for my first beer.

Tasted one yesterday after one week in the bottle (I know, but it's my first beer and I want to taste how it evolves with time). It had some head, but was still a bit flat. It was okay, but had some significant fusel flavors. I may slow down on the brewing until the weather outside gets colder. Summer is a poor time to start.

Hey, you've still got beer! I'm sure it will get better with age as well.

How long was yours in primary/secondary? Being patient with your first brew is tough.

Yeah, this is an abysmal time to brew. It is as hot as hades here in NC. I'd really like to get a chest freezer and convert it to ferment, but first I'd need to sell a kidney!

 

[unionrdr]

After FG is reached,I leave it in primary another 3-7 days to clean up by products of fermentation & settle out clear or slightly misty. Then 3-4 weeks in bottles with at least 1 week fridge time to let any chill haze form & settle out.

 

[smizak]

You're not going to condition off fusel alcohols. That's an annoying myth on this site. My old neighbor gave me two stouts that smelled and tasted like nail polish remover because he fermented in his attic in July. He told me to age one. I did. Six months later, oxidized nail polish remover. It might round out a little, but that's it. You need better temp control it seems.

 

[unionrdr]

I've conditioned out fusels before,but the level wasn't very strong. Just enough to notice. Most off flavors come from natural by products of fermentation but process errors raise their levels to where they're noticed. If the levels are too high,they can't be conditioned out. Otherwise,they will as a natural part of the fermentation process. If their levels are relatively low,after the yeast eat all the simple sugars,they go after their own by products.

 

[freisste]

I've conditioned out fusels before,but the level wasn't very strong. Just enough to notice. Most off flavors come from natural by products of fermentation but process errors raise their levels to where they're noticed. If the levels are too high,they can't be conditioned out. Otherwise,they will as a natural part of the fermentation process. If their levels are relatively low,after the yeast eat all the simple sugars,they go after their own by products.

+1. My first batch I knew nothing of temperature control or why I would need it. Beer tasted great, but I had a hangover-like headache after one (sometimes before finishing it).

The second half of the batch didn't give me hangovers at all. Much better. I attribute this to the fusels conditioning out. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what in going with.

Edit: Also, I couldn't taste a 'hot' alcohol flavor, so I'm guessing it was a pretty low concentration.

 

[ittybittykittycommittee]

You're not going to condition off fusel alcohols. That's an annoying myth on this site. My old neighbor gave me two stouts that smelled and tasted like nail polish remover because he fermented in his attic in July. He told me to age one. I did. Six months later, oxidized nail polish remover. It might round out a little, but that's it. You need better temp control it seems.

I agree, I need to work a bit on my temperature control. But, I didn't ferment in my attic (which would easily be >100F!) so I'm hoping that it won't be very fusel-heavy like your neighbor's.

I've conditioned out fusels before,but the level wasn't very strong. Just enough to notice. Most off flavors come from natural by products of fermentation but process errors raise their levels to where they're noticed. If the levels are too high,they can't be conditioned out. Otherwise,they will as a natural part of the fermentation process. If their levels are relatively low,after the yeast eat all the simple sugars,they go after their own by products.

I'm hoping more for this! We shall see. I'd RDWHAHB, but I don't have any ready yet.

Thanks everyone for your comments/help, I appreciate it!

 

[TopherM]

Temp control will be the single biggest improvement to your beer. Temp control can be achived very inexpensively (<$20) with a swamp cooler, instead of taking the summer off from brewing (what a horrible idea!).

Digital temp controllers and refrigerated fermentation chambers only automate the same thing a swamp cooler does, so they are more luxuries of convenience than anything else. Even then, you can get a used chest freezer or fridge and a new mechanical temp controller for around $50-100 total.

My buddy has three fridges he got FREE from being patient on Craigslist paired with three Johnson A19AAT-2C mechanical thermostats for THREE fermentation chambers in his garage for a total of about $150.00.

My top-of-the-line True glass front beverage cooler (bought used) and A419 digital temp controller (bought new) only cost me $185.00 total, plus a little bit of research, patience, and good shopping.

My point is there's really no good reason NOT to practice temp contol, and not brewing over the summer is still the worst idea I've ever heard. The worst.

Get to it! Go mow a few lawns or donate plasma for a month (4 trips, $15 a trip = $60), then get your brews on temp control!

 

[ittybittykittycommittee]

Temp control will be the single biggest improvement to your beer. Temp control can be achived very inexpensively (<$20) with a swamp cooler, instead of taking the summer off from brewing (what a horrible idea!).

Digital temp controllers and refrigerated fermentation chambers only automate the same thing a swamp cooler does, so they are more luxuries of convenience than anything else. Even then, you can get a used chest freezer or fridge and a new mechanical temp controller for around $50-100 total.

My buddy has three fridges he got FREE from being patient on Craigslist paired with three Johnson A19AAT-2C mechanical thermostats for THREE fermentation chambers in his garage for a total of about $150.00.

My top-of-the-line True glass front beverage cooler (bought used) and A419 digital temp controller (bought new) only cost me $185.00 total, plus a little bit of research, patience, and good shopping.

My point is there's really no good reason NOT to practice temp contol, and not brewing over the summer is still the worst idea I've ever heard. The worst.

Get to it! Go mow a few lawns or donate plasma for a month (4 trips, $15 a trip = $60), then get your brews on temp control!

I actually have it in a friend's cooler:


It was fermenting so viciously at first that even 3 bottles of ice couldn't get the water bath down to the low 60s. It has been in the low 60s for most of its fermentation though, and is still going. Next time I will be more prepared, with even more ice bottles. I was having to swap bottles every 2 hours during the most rapid part of fermentation.

Don't worry, I will not quit brewing just because it is summer!

 

[Dralzz]

How long was yours in primary/secondary? Being patient with your first brew is tough.

I don't have a secondary yet. Mine was in primary for two weeks (fermentation was over after 1). I'm going to leave my next beer in primary for three weeks no matter what happens.

 

[ittybittykittycommittee]

Not that anyone is following this thread/anxiously awaiting a result, but nonetheless an update! I bottled this beer after 3 weeks in primary (8/11), put one in the fridge (8/8), and had my first on 8/9! It had carbed up surprisingly well by that point. It tasted very good to me, with maybe a hint of heat from some fusels. Overall a very drinkable brown ale. Wahoo!

 

[unionrdr]

Not that anyone is following this thread/anxiously awaiting a result, but nonetheless an update! I bottled this beer after 3 weeks in primary (8/11), put one in the fridge (8/8), and had my first on 8/9! It had carbed up surprisingly well by that point. It tasted very good to me, with maybe a hint of heat from some fusels. Overall a very drinkable brown ale. Wahoo!

Uuuuhhh...dude? Do you own a certain DeLorian that you can go back in time a couple days before you bottled it to try it???

 

[ittybittykittycommittee]

Woops! In the fridge on 8/18 and consumed on 8/19. D'oh!

Just had my second while brewing an American wheat. I may never again have money for anything non-brewing related...