Work is trying to screw me... what should i do?

[Mirilis]

So we have a tuition assistance program...

you fill out a form with your class, the cost of the class.. etc and then submit it before the term. It will be approved and sent back to you. At the end of the term you show them your grade and they will reimburse you for part of the cost of the class.

Thats what I did for last fall, and now im back to work and they want me to show them a bursar slip that shows what im getting from my GI Bill that goes towards tuition cost.

It sounds like they want to say ... "oh well your GI Bill paid $700 on you $1000 tuition bill, and you got a $300 scholorship so we are not going to give you your tuition reimbursement money from here for taking classes to try and advance you in this workplace!"

WTF should I do? It is none of their business what the army pays for my tuition thats not whats in the policy book.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Prove and argue that to your HR department.

 

[RDWHAHB]

Sounds like they only reimburse "expenses". If you don't pay money, then it is not an expense. Last time you doubled dipped, and it worked out. This time it isn't. Maybe I'm not understanding the situation though.

PS- not trying to be an a-hole. Just how I see it. I hope it works out for you.

 

[kjung]

My mantra at work: "I love my @$!#ing job, and my job loves @$!#ing me!"

As Gila said, go in with the policy book, and ask where it sayd that it has to be out-of-pocket expenses.

 

[paulthenurse]

Show them the Bursar receipt. Why not?


"Ya, it shows that I served this country. The deal was that the Army will pay part of my tuition after I left the Army, it was a part of my compensation package. You also have a tuition reimbursement package. That's part of the reason I work here. And that word work is a key part of the equation. Just like in the Army, I worked for them, I work for you. I earn my compensation. I earned that money as part of my compensation in the Army, just like I earned the tuition reimbursement from you. You can make that check out to the University of Kiss My Ass You Pencil Pushing Buttwad."

And be prepared to go find another job. If they look to screw their employees out of a few dollars on a pretext you don't want to work there anyways.

PTN

 

[jbford]

getting reimbursed twice for the same expenses will most certainly piss them off.
( best to go along with the co., you may want to take some classes after the GI money runs out.)

Worked for many years as a boss and had lots of folks who wanted to take classes. Employers often interpret the rules as they see fit. Even going so far as not paying to train folks for positions that are not hard to fill, and not paying if you go to a school they "feel" is too easy or does not slant the class so it will be useful to them. They also may demand A or B grade for any reimbursement. All I could say was "quit griping and go along with HR or find a job elsewhere."

 

[mosquitocontrol]

Yeah you are trying to get paid to go to school. It doesn't work that way. I'm afraid you are in the wrong not the company.

 

[Joeywhat]

My company also reimburses expenses, but only if it hasn't been covered by soemthing else. Military benefits may not factor in but scholorships and grants certainly do.

So if a grant paid for 75% of tuition, my company would cover the other 25%.

Either way take it up the chain and be a human about it. Maybe it's in the policy manual and you didn't see it, maybe someone made a mistake somewhere, maybe they just hired someone and they made the wrong call. **** happens.

 

[brewmonk]

I need to give you two answers:

normal person, homebrewer-type - man that sucks, they said they'd give you the money, and now that you've already spent it, they're d!ck!n you around. all business people care about is making more money than someone else (and more money FROM someone else.).

beancountin m!st-p!sser - If it wasn't YOU who spent that money, we can't refund a non-expendeture. Now go away, I'm planning the corporate Christmas retreat.

all kidding aside, i wouldnt piss of the H/R dept. they write stuff in your file, and 2 years from now, you'll never know why YOU were the downsized individual.

pick your battles, get a new job FIRST (in this economy), use up all your sick time over the next two weeks, and go. That's enough to make sure that they never want you back.

 

[Mirilis]

"To encourage associates to further their education and self-development, the company will reimburse associates for the cost of college tuition, upon successful completion of the course taken on site at an accredited college or university.

Tuition assistance does not apply to online classes. This program represents an investment in individuals and our organization. " - Policy 6.14

It doesnt say anything about paying me back only what I paid. It says reimbursing for the Cost of tuition. It doesnt state anything about not stacking with other non-company benefits either. I have to drive to C-Bus 3 times a week now ( ~ 40 min one-way) to attend classes to try to benefit my current job. I cant work overtime anymore because Im attending class. (as an engineer its difficult to say I cant work OT as the other dept people stay til 8-9 every night)

Maybe you guys are right but I feel like im being shafted. Everyone else that has used this benefit before was never asked to provide any other kind of documentation. Its like they are singling me out for something.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I agree, there was no tuition to reimburse you for. It was already paid for. Sorry man.

 

[Mirilis]

Im not trying to piss them off or anything.. I just want to understand why they are targetting me. I havnt spent the money... I still have it. They arent asking for it back yet.. im just confused as to why this all came about in the first place when everyone else that I talk to has not had the same problem.

 

[Bobby_M]

So you think you should be able to pocket some money out of the deal?

 

[IrregularPulse]

So they've already given you the reimbursement and are saying you shouldn't have received it?? Give the HR guy some HB to make the situation go away

 

[srm775]

Im not trying to piss them off or anything.. I just want to understand why they are targetting me. I havnt spent the money... I still have it. They arent asking for it back yet.. im just confused as to why this all came about in the first place when everyone else that I talk to has not had the same problem.

Has everyone else had the same situation? Has everyone else had the military paying for all or a portion of the expense? If so, then sounds (paranoid speak) like they might be waiting for you to screw up and cash that check and pocket the money so they can fire you.

If not, then sounds like they only REimburse for expenses. If you didn't incur an expense, then you shouldn't be REpaid for something that you didn't pay for in the first place. Remember, you, ultimately, benefit from the education/training. That is something you will take with you forever, the company is only renting it for the time being.

 

[Mirilis]

I guess you guys are right. It just sucks they never said anyting about it when I talked to the HR guy before. I had a meeting with them at one time and told them I was trying to finish my degree and I was going to be able to use army money and tuition reimbursment for school and he didnt seem to have an issue at the time.

Ohh well, im not gonna squabble over a couple hundred bucks. Subject dropped! thanks for the other point of view

 

[Bobby_M]

I guess a real world example I can give you, since I was never in the military, is my company will reimburse meal expenses when I travel up to the government perdiem rate. I have to show the receipts to get the money back. If one of my clients picks up the check, I can't ask for reimbursement for it.

 

[jmendez29]

I can't speak for the scholarship, but I do remember something from the classes they made me go to for separation from the Nav. The GI bill is something that you invested in, and is now paying you back. In no way can they hold that against you. And if I recall correctly, it is illegal for them to do so. I would also advise you to check on this yourself, because that was 8 years ago that they covered this. My memory is less than perfect, but they did cover this at great length and in this specific scenario.

To that end, I would start by calling the VA and see what they can tell you about it. And on the other hand, I would also tread lightly and navigate this one carefully, for the reasons stated by others.

At my previous job, they had a similar statement in the company policy. After trying to put in for my reimbursement per the company standard, I was denied payment for my General Education classes because they did not directly pertain to my tasks as an employee. Regardless of whether or not I "needed" them to continue my education. At that point I decided I had no loyalty to the company and started my job search.

 

[jmendez29]

And I wouldn't worry too much about HR. If things do start getting tense, demand a copy of your files immediately and on some kind of regular frequency so you can monitor what is being written about you. That is definitely well within your rights and will also let them know that they are being watched. But again, tread lightly and carefully.

 

[Mirilis]

I guess I was really only squabbling in the first place because im not making as much money as I used to as a result of not being able to work late to get my average paychecks. It wasnt like i was not going to use it for school. I was just going to use it for other things like books and gas to get there. I already emailed them back with their info request and Ill see what they want me to do.

 

[Mirilis]

And I wouldn't worry too much about HR. If things do start getting tense, demand a copy of your files immediately and on some kind of regular frequency so you can monitor what is being written about you. That is definitely well within your rights and will also let them know that they are being watched. But again, tread lightly and carefully.

I dont want to argue with them again. They put a bad taste in my mouth years ago, and once my obligation is up im going to change jobs. I have argued with them once before when they didnt give me a annual profit sharing check when I deployed to Iraq.

I was still a company employee but they said that since I wasnt there for 3 of the 12 months that year that I didnt get one. I tried to argue that the deployment wasnt voluntary on my part and that I should be entitled to 3/4 of that bonus (as i was there 3/4 of that year).

They also tried to deny me attendance bonuses when I had to go to Annual Training (2 weeks) and wasnt at work. Even though the policy says I should have gotten it because Military Service does not affect it.

 

[Bobby_M]

The policy here is that I can take courses outside of a degree program if they directly apply to my job function. I can also take any required course of a degree program that was pre-approved to be appropriate for my job function.

 

[brrman]

Sounds like a bull**** company that doesn't have much respect for it's people. But in days like this where lots of people want your job, I think some companies figure they don't need to pander to employee loyalty.

 

[Mirilis]

I think a lot of it may have to do with cultural differences. The company is Japanese and some of the people dont understand American mindsets. They do stuff like expect you to work 4 hours over everyday .. to prove your loyalty to the company etc, but then on the flip side they yell at you for working overtime.

 

[RDWHAHB]

I have argued with them once before when they didnt give me a annual profit sharing check when I deployed to Iraq.

I was still a company employee but they said that since I wasnt there for 3 of the 12 months that year that I didnt get one. I tried to argue that the deployment wasnt voluntary on my part and that I should be entitled to 3/4 of that bonus (as i was there 3/4 of that year).

They also tried to deny me attendance bonuses when I had to go to Annual Training (2 weeks) and wasnt at work. Even though the policy says I should have gotten it because Military Service does not affect it.

OK, now that is some BS the company is pulling. I'll defend their tuition policy, but that is just Fing people over.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Sounds like you get it, but..............you can't be re-imbursed (which by definition is giving you money BACK...) if you didn't pay the $ to begin with.

Doing the same on a tax return might land you in a whole lot of trouble.

 

[motobrewer]

I have argued with them once before when they didnt give me a annual profit sharing check when I deployed to Iraq.

THAT is bullsh*t

The company is Japanese and some of the people dont understand American mindsets..

but it makes sense, knowing that.

The japanese are a bit strange when it comes to work habits. I don't claim to be an expert, but I studied japanese for 3 years in college, and we have a guy over from the Tokyo branch here right now. Long workdays are normal, and recognition is hard to come by.

 

[Skins_Brew]

I agree with the company, and i am a vet who is using the gibill. If you want to use your companies TA then stop using your gibill.

 

[Mirilis]

This is a different situation but I have another question to pose for guys who were active duty and now using the benefit. I thought that while you were in you paid into a GI bill account (similar to 401k) and now that your out and want to use those benefits you get a monthly check for going to school.

If thats true then you using those benefits.. you are still the one paying for tuition so wouldnt you be entitled to reimbursement?

(** im using the new CH 33 benefits at 70% so, they pay 70% and its up to me to come up with the other 30%.. and the above situation didnt apply to me since i was in the guard and they are ran by the state)

 

[MBasile]

Sounds like they only reimburse "expenses". If you don't pay money, then it is not an expense. Last time you doubled dipped, and it worked out. This time it isn't. Maybe I'm not understanding the situation though.

PS- not trying to be an a-hole. Just how I see it. I hope it works out for you.

This is the way I see it too. You have two other sources paying 100% of your tuition. There is nothing left for your work to pay.

 

[Mirilis]

This is the way I see it too. You have two other sources paying 100% of your tuition. There is nothing left for your work to pay.

Thats for the most part true.. I still have to come up with 30% and I got a small scholorship that covered it last quarter but not this new one.

 

[jrfuda]

Is your GI Bill going directly to the school or to you? Which version of the GI Bill do you fall under? The reserve GI Bill check I used in college almost 20 years ago went directly to me every month. The GI Bill I paid into after entering active duty, and the new Post-911 GI Bill (which for me are now one in the same, and which those serving now get without having to pay into) are paid as a stipend directly to the veteran with the amount dependant on your course load. Bottom line is the GI Bill is not meant to pay solely for tuition, but to compensate veterans seeking higher education. The newest version is even transferrable to family members (my 2 kids can essentially get 2 years of school each paid for by the new GI Bill).

I also received a small $700 scholarship for each of the first 2 years I was in college. My folks, however, paid my tuition in full at the start of each semester, so the scholarship checks, which were sent to the university, created a credit balance in my account. Because of this, the university cut me a check each year for the overage. I also received my GI Bill on top of this, all of which went towards food, gas, etc.

I'd defineately fo with the earlier recommendation of seeing the VA rep at your school, I know mine helped me out a lot the first year when I was learning the system.

 

[Mirilis]

The new Post-911 bill is pretty nice. I get 70% tuition assistance paid to school. Then I get a 70% BAH check sent to me every month, and I get a small stipend every year for books. The only thing I dont have cash for is the 30% remaining tuition and all gas its gonna take me to run back and forth.

 

[Edcculus]

I'm no HR expert, and know nothing about the GI bill. It seems to me though that you could at least get your job to pay for that 30% the GI bill doesn't cover. Just present them with your tuition bill, the bursar's paperwork that shows how much the GI paid for, then your credit card bill or bank statement showing how much out of pocket expense you incurred. As long as you meet grade criteria, I don't see how they can deny that. I agree that it would be pretty hard to convince them they need to pay you the entire tuition cost when its already partially paid for.

If you do it right, you MIGHT be able to justify the hidden costs of taking class for reimbursement. No overtime, extra gas etc.

 

[jrfuda]

I get 70% tuition assistance paid to school

Ahhh, so that's the problem... probably all the automation. Back in the day I used to get those pretty gubment checks, now everything's direct deposit.

It won't hurt to ask the VA rep at the school if there's anyway to change the "paid direct to the school" deal, may not help this time, but maybe next time... of course, it may not be possible.

Why I think it *may* be possible, though: Let's say that you or your folks had opened a 529 account to pay for your school. The money in that account has to be used for education-related expenses or it's subject to penalties. Now, you join the military and get the GI Bill. You cash in your GI Bill to pay for 70% of your tuition. Since you/your folks funded your 529 plan with the intent of fully funding your education, there's a lot of money left in the account, so now - in order to use that money - you have to suffer a penalty. However, if you could have used the money from the 529 to pay the tuition in full, you could have saved the GI Bill money - you would be rewarded for both your service and saving for college. If there's not an exception to the "pay the school directly" policy, then some folks are getting a bad deal in this particular case.

This is the exact scenerio I will be in when my kids go to college, becuase I've been funding their 529 accounts since they were born based on the amount projected college (tuition, boarding, books, etc.) will cost when they're 18, and - unless the law changes - they'll each get 2 years of my post-911 GI Bill.

 

[wyzazz]

The GI Bill is a benifit that you get while going to school, it is paid directly to you not to the school, it doesn't have to be used for tuition it can be used for whatever you want. They cannot count using the GI Bill monies against you anymore than using your own paycheck monies toward tuition.

Former US Marine with a college education, that the GI Bill helped fund.

 

[jmendez29]

I still think you should talk to a VA representative about this, whether it be a government official or the one at your school. This is a benefit that is provided by a different employer and should have absolutely ZERO bearing on the decision of your company. Unless someone were to prove to me otherwise, I feel that the company is denying you compensation based on illegal reasoning. Likewise, any which way this turns out, which will probably be somehow unfair, I would still take your newfound degree to the company's competition and work for them. I'm sure they would appreciate what you can bring to the team.

 

[Skins_Brew]

Why is your ch33 benefits NOT paying 100%? Is your school more expensive then the most expensive public school in your state?

 

[Mirilis]

the CH33 Benefit (Post-911) pays out a % based on your active duty time after 9-11. The only time I have that applys is my 18 month deployment to Iraq. The rest of my contract was just national guard time.

 

[GregR]

if you're not using the post 9-11 G.I. bill you could probably argue that the money, in fact, wasn't used for tuition. the pre 9-11 G.I. bill doesn't pay tuition at all; that money is a check that goes directly to you for you to spend as you see fit while enrolled in class. I know none of my classes were directly paid for by the G.I. bill before I switched to post 9-11.

the G.I. bill is money you earned and payed in to while serving. the stipulation to receive that money is to be enrolled in school, that's it. nowhere does it say that that money has to be spent on tuition. for example I didn't pay for tuition because of the board of governors waiver, but I STILL got ALL of my G.I. bill because I was enrolled in classes. the VA didn't say "well you're tuition is already covered so we will only give you x-(tuition).

where you got other money outside of your company is not your companies business. they said they will reimburse your costs of tuition because your education directly helps the company. they should pony up the money owed to you.

however if you are on the post 9-11 bill that may be a different story as it DOES cover 100% of tuition cost directly and explicitly.

EDIT: looks like this was covered already. I read the first few posts and chimed in without reading what everyone else already said.