Wiring assistance - single PID/SSR single kettle setup
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It took me a long time to figure that one out. Then one day I was looking at the element and noticed only two wires connected to it. Thus one off, no current flow. Doh!
Some of us just need a little bit longer ....
Fortunately, the guys on this forum have patience for us noobs.
BrewinBigD
Well-Known Member
is there a reason for exactly 69%? ive heard that for boils its not advised to use auto set for 212F. i dont see why this would be a problem. if your at a boil, and your RTD reads 212F, then shouldnt your heat be controlled to exactly that boil temp? ive heard it can cause a mean boilover doing this in auto mode.
arles
Member
BrewinBigD said:
The temperature water boils at is affected by altitude as well as what's dissolved in the water. Pure water at sea level boils at 212. Your wort will boil at some other temperature. The problem comes from the fact that once something starts to boil, it stays at that temperature no matter how much energy you put into it. It may boil more vigorously but the temp will stay constant. So the controller can get stuck in a loop where it will continue to add power but can't raise the temperature.
At least that's my understanding
johnodon
Well-Known Member
No real reason other than I achieved a vigorous boil when the PID was in auto mode and set to 212F. I then put the PID in manual mode and started at 77% and worked my way down to 69%. This gave me a nice rolling boil that wasn't too vigorous and very consistent.
John
Hope this helps.
This looks like a nice simple design similar to what I need. I have a couple questions though.
1) If I don't want the light but want a plugin for a pump, can I replace the light with said plugin but wire it in just before that switch rather than just after it (and ground it of course)? That way the plugin would be always live.
2)I'm not following how the E-stop will work. If I'm following it correctly it just makes it's own loop in the system and hitting the switch off will do nothing but cut the power in that small loop while the rest of the system stays powered. In short, it doesn't look to me like the e-stop is doing anything. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me. I have the misfortune of being cursed with needing to know the "why" and "how" of something before I do it.
Thanks in advance.
i'm not to electrically inclined but i think once the e-stop is engaged all of the power would be transfer to ground instead towards any of the equipment. Once current goes to ground it will pull more than the breaker would be rated for and the breaker would break.
The pump outlet in place of light wouldn't work because the dpst switch would break the current so the pump would be only on when the element is on
. Using line 1 would work though. You could forgoe the dpst and wire the pump outlet directly to line 1 and neutral or put a separate switch in for the pump
The pump outlet in place of light wouldn't work because the dpst switch would break the current so the pump would be only on when the element is on
. Using line 1 would work though. You could forgoe the dpst and wire the pump outlet directly to line 1 and neutral or put a separate switch in for the pump
I'm still not really seeing how it diverts the power as the hookup for line 1 splits the current rather than being in-line.
And if you read my question again, I said that I'd wire the outlet in 'before' the switch, not after it as the light is.
The e-stop once engaged would connect your hot directly to ground which would make a piss load of current run through the hot to ground part of the circuit and trips the breaker. Electricity will go to the path of least resistance which is directly to ground instead of other places in the circuit.
Oh and you're right about the outlet before the switch. I was thinking about how the light worked in that circuit instead of how an outlet would
Oh and you're right about the outlet before the switch. I was thinking about how the light worked in that circuit instead of how an outlet would
The E-Stop is specifically set up to act in the same manner as the test button on the GFCI breaker. It provides a small leakage current to equipment ground which activates the GFCI and kills all power being delivered to your panel. The 1 amp fuse is there to protect the wiring and the switch. The two 1K ohm resistors are to limit the current flow.
Please keep in mind that you must protect your electric brewery with a GFCI mains breaker. Without it you are playing "You bet your life."!
Please keep in mind that you must protect your electric brewery with a GFCI mains breaker. Without it you are playing "You bet your life."!
Hello Gentlemen,
I have been looking at the diagram and wondering about some specifics...
The part where switch one is pictured is that one switch or is it two? If so can you all show me an example of what kind of switch that is or what I need to search for to find that type of switch?
Also after looking over the section of the diagram where the plug is and my own situation I am faced with an issue. I have an older house and can bring a line off at that voltage and amperage but because of the age of the house's breaker box I don't think I will be able to add a GFCI breaker to the mix. I am wondering if it is wise or even possible to add that breaker to this diagram and wire it in?
Thanks
I have been looking at the diagram and wondering about some specifics...
The part where switch one is pictured is that one switch or is it two? If so can you all show me an example of what kind of switch that is or what I need to search for to find that type of switch?
Also after looking over the section of the diagram where the plug is and my own situation I am faced with an issue. I have an older house and can bring a line off at that voltage and amperage but because of the age of the house's breaker box I don't think I will be able to add a GFCI breaker to the mix. I am wondering if it is wise or even possible to add that breaker to this diagram and wire it in?
Thanks
This switch from Grainger will work: grainger.com Toggle Switch - 2TPF6
Re: The GFCI breaker - buy this GFCI Spa Panel from Home Depot. Set it up near your brew area. You can wire its input to a dryer or range plug and them mount an outlet in it to supply the power to your brewery.
This way:
Or this way:
Hope this helps you.
P-J
Re: The GFCI breaker - buy this GFCI Spa Panel from Home Depot. Set it up near your brew area. You can wire its input to a dryer or range plug and them mount an outlet in it to supply the power to your brewery.
This way:
Or this way:
Hope this helps you.
P-J
Exactly what Psych was trying to achieve - I am considering converting my boil kettle so I am able to brew indoors and not have to brew at the stove in the kitchen. I am thinking of having a dedicated brew room in the basement so this was a good option.
Actually P-J, this is my plan and if you could draw it p that would great. I would like a key switch to the entire control box, I have nieces and I don't want them accidentally turning something on - so a key would be great so it cannot be turned on without the key. But an indicator light that shows me power is on would be nice as well. From there I will have one 5500W element (with indicator light as element will not always be on), PID, SSR/heat sink, e-stop. I'd like an alarm as well for the PID (I saw them on the Auberin web site). I also like the style of the Auberin push button switches that illuminate to turn on the PID and the element. Thanks for your help
How about this?
As always - click on the image to see a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")
That is great, thanks so much this is a tremendous help. One question...Will the LED light on the element Auber switch continuously be on if it has power? I'm thinking that it would be nice to show when there is power to the element and when it is actually in use, for safety reasons.
iijakii
Well-Known Member
PJ,
Which in-line fuse holders do you recommend? I'm having a hard time finding some.
Which in-line fuse holders do you recommend? I'm having a hard time finding some.
The Switch light will be on when the switch is on. BTW: It would be rather complicated to set up an indicator light that shows when there is actual power being delivered to the element. You could wire a 240V lamp directly across the element connection. It would have to be after the element plug so that you do not get a false signal.
How about this?
As always - click on the image to see a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")
So I guess really the Auber push buttons are not really necessary in this case - i can just use a regular switch wire in the light to tell me when the element is on. Same for the PID as well - one to give it power, one to turn on/off the alarm, and the actual alarm itself.
It seems that the Auber push buttons just add in an extra part and just racking up the price.
Whatever you say. I just spent a bunch of time trying to accomodate your request. Now it's all up to you.
You specified your wishes. I designed the drawing to those paramareters.
Now you don't like it because????
You wanted all of those illuminated switches to indicate 'stuff'. I complied. You wanted indicator lites for additional 'stuff'.
NOW - you don't like it because of the cost???
You think it's easy to develop a drawing? I do it free hand. My base file for your drawing is 10 megabites is size. It is composed of thousands of bits and pieces. YOU try it...
You are on your own. I'm way over the top & very pissed off.!!!!
I'm done.
I just hope your brew rig turns out ok for you with your plan.
Thanks...
I'm just aggravated and need to settle down.
My drawing development is taken very seriously by me. Apparently some people think it is done by "Pluck your magic Twanger" methods and can be done in just moments of time.
Stevo2569,
By the way, I could have made the drawing with a MUCH cheaper outcome using standard switches instead of the illuminated switches. That would have eliminated the contactors and a bunch of other stuff as well. AND - I know I have a diagram for that design already drawn.
That would have saved me a bunch of my time that was thrown into the trash can - Because...?
Still upset.
So Sorry...... I'll let it die now.
By the way, I could have made the drawing with a MUCH cheaper outcome using standard switches instead of the illuminated switches. That would have eliminated the contactors and a bunch of other stuff as well. AND - I know I have a diagram for that design already drawn.
That would have saved me a bunch of my time that was thrown into the trash can - Because...?
Still upset.
So Sorry...... I'll let it die now.
This diagram is also exactly what I was looking for. Even if the original requester decided not to use it, it still adds to the wonderful collection of knowledge contained in this forum.
lzrdkng14
Well-Known Member
+1 to this
Yes, + 1 on the drawings you made. I have been reading so much info lately on this stuff, I am in overload I have picked up a spa panel today( still have alot of stuff to get.)
I am printing all these drawings to help me decide how I want to build my system.
P-J, your efforts and time are very much appreciated
I have picked up a spa panel today( still have alot of stuff to get.)I am printing all these drawings to help me decide how I want to build my system.
P-J, your efforts and time are very much appreciated
smoothlarryhughes
Well-Known Member
Hi PJ...I was wondering if you could do a quick explanation of how the current flows on this diagram...just curious about the ground connection where the heater element plugs in. I thought the 3 prong was supposed to be 2 hot and a neutral, but this is connected to ground.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Thanks for that.
Psych,
I didn't have one that exactly fit your description so I made this one up for you:
(Click the image for a full scale diagram that can be printed on tabloid paper 11" x 17")
Hope this helps.
The 240V heating element is powered using 240V and equipment ground. The ground is connected to the element frame and the kettle. If it carries any current (due to a fault) the GFCI feed breaker will trip. In other words it is not a neutral but equipment ground.
P-J
smoothlarryhughes
Well-Known Member
Thanks P-J...can you incorporate an on/off switch for the whole panel in this diagram?
smoothlarryhughes
Well-Known Member
Actually I found this diagram showing a switch for the PID power...i'm assuming if the PID doesn't get power there is no way for the element to be powered...correct?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/simple-electric-build-pros-276477/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/simple-electric-build-pros-276477/
