William's Brewing

[osagedr]

Bad customer service experience with Williams Brewing. Was hoping to get a system for putting direct O2 into my wort before pitching. Picked up the small red disposable tank from a local hardware place today.

Called Williams. "We don't ship to Canada." Any way you can make this work? I'm really stuck, I'll pay extra shipping for FedEx or USPS. "Nope. We can't do it." Really? You can't send it FedEx or USPS? "Well, we ship with those carriers but shipping to Canada isn't our business model." Any way you can help me out? "No. We can't. Goodbye." *click*

Yeah, company policy is their prerogative...just used to businesses that help you out if they can.

Anyone got an alternate vendor they would recommend for a similar system?

 

[bovineblitz]

I got mine from Austin. To make it a 'rod' I got a cheap racking cane and cut a small piece of the tubing off and used that to attach the stone to the bottom of the cane.

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=2437

 

[Slurm]

Have it shipped to a friend who can reship it to you?

This is not an uncommon problem. Some businesses just don't do international -some that do ship internationally don't do shipping to Canada. USA/Canada shipping is relatively simple for individuals, but is surprisingly complicated for businesses. My business does ship internationally, and I have had to deal with these issues...

 

[WenValley]

So, you're upset because an employee at Williams wouldn't violate their policy?

I think you're way off base, why don't you call Williams Brewing and ask for them to ship to Canada, and tell them you don't want to pay for your order.

If you're going to be upset over something, you might as well make it worth while.

 

[JetSmooth]

Having ordered something in the other direction, I can't say I blame them. copmanies have no control over customers, which can sometimes delay or even lose shipments, making the vendor look bad.

We ordered some loose tea from a company in BC months in advance of Christmas. It took until like April to arrive. In the meantime, the company claimed they fulfilled their end of the sale and we were without a pretty special Christmas present for my fahter-in-law that year.

 

[IrregularPulse]

That's their policy, no matter how many times you ask the guy on the phone, the answer is no. I work in technical support and I hate when people like you call and for some reason can't understand the answer the first time I tell them, just because it isn't what they want to hear.

I hope you find what you need, but I don't think it's bad customer service. You weren't excepting their answer, so they said good bye.

 

[osagedr]

I got mine from Austin. To make it a 'rod' I got a cheap racking cane and cut a small piece of the tubing off and used that to attach the stone to the bottom of the cane.

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?products_id=2437

Thanks--I was thinking the same thing about using a piece of a racking cane instead of the stainless rod. As luck would have it, I broke the curved end off of a racking cane a few days ago! Looks like Austin will ship to Canada. Should be all set within a couple of weeks!

 

[HexKrak]

I worked for a company that shipped stuff to Canada, and you wouldn't believe how bad it was. No matter how many times you'd tell customer's they'd be responsible for tariffs they'd ALWAYS call in and complain about it, and if we wouldn't pay for it they'd return to sender and we'd get stuck with restocking fees and custom orders that we couldn't do anything with. And then stuff would get "stuck" in customs for unreasonable periods of time so it'd look like we were dropping the ball when really the item was just sitting in some dark corner of the customs warehouse collecting dust.

If I owned a company shipping physical products I wouldn't send to Canada either. IMHO blame customs, and idiot customers, not the company who's just trying to keep products cheap for the most people possible.

 

[Bobby_M]

That's not bad customer service as much as it's bad customer expectations. I've been back and forth on whether or not I want to ship Internationally and frankly, as much as I want to help everyone out, it's a major pain. I don't think people fully appreciate it so I'll summarize the difference between shipping domestic vs. international.

US order: Open paypal, view transaction, calculate total order weight, print USPS label, pack in a FREE USPS box and done. Maybe 5-10 minutes max if it's a lot of items. Also, if it gets lost in shipment, I have a tracking number to troubleshoot with.

International: Copy address to a word doc, print. Fill out the customs form by hand. Pack the order in a non-USPS box that I have to either find or buy, wait in line at the post office (sometimes 20 minutes), file the receipts and make sure I correlate the customs number on the form and the buyer's name with the receipt. This process easily takes twice as much effort/time and if the box is lost in shipment, I have no tracking.

In other words, I fully understand why a company might have a domestic-only policy, especially if volume is running right at their current shipping capacity. Having to hire another employee just to cover that extra slack doesn't make sense. This is a business decision and you have the right to buy from someone else.

I'm still shipping worldwide but I grumble and curse about it plenty.

 

[osagedr]

Yeah, international shipping must be a pain for retailers. Canadian customs don't help matters much either, although frankly those charges are usually modest. The real problem comes when UPS screws customers on brokerage fees to get stuff through customs (FedEx, USPS don't do this, at least not nearly to the same extent).

Once bought a regulator from KegConnection.com...absolutely fabulous customer service experience. Regulator got shipped UPS, who tried to ding me for $60 or something "brokerage fees" on a $120 regulator...kegconnection took the thing back, ate the UPS charges, and shipped it FedEx. That's going above and beyond the call!

 

[JetSmooth]

Good. Then you recognize where "the call" lies. Not all companies need to go above and beyond it for all issues.

 

[beergolf]

I have used Williams and had a smallmproblem with an order. When I called they went out of their way to fix it. I give their customer service a two thumbs up.

 

[estoppel]

I don't think the OP is unreasonable here. The guy on the other end of the phone could could have taken the time to explain the rationale behind the store policy instead and says something, I'm really sorry, there is just no way we can do it" instead of hanging up? That's just rude.

I find I have the same problem with front line bank tellers often. They know their policies, they just don't understand what drives them and so it limits their ability to find solutions and on occasion, they will be unduly short in their responses.

In those situations, I escalate.

 

[eastoak]

there are many other vendors that sell the same kits, go with them.

 

[rico567]

I don't see where not shipping internationally constitutes "bad customer service." They don't do it; it's a policy, it's not like they do it for some and not for others.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Try Midwest Supplies in Minneapolis. I believe they ship to canada and they have pretty much everything a brewer would need.

 

[Teromous]

It really is bad customer service, regardless of their company policy or not. Even if they don't ship to Canada, there was no reason for the person to treat you with disrespect.

 

[osagedr]

It really is bad customer service, regardless of their company policy or not. Even if they don't ship to Canada, there was no reason for the person to treat you with disrespect.

Meh, after cooling off I can see their side. Just expect every customer service experience to be perfect, and this one wasn't.

 

[dogbar]

The guy was on the phone. There was probably another customer on the other line whom he could actually a) sell to and b) make happy. The "wah wah this vendor is soooo unfair" threads are pointless and immature.

For the record, I ordered the same oxygenation kit from Williams brewing. It works great, was well packed and arrived just when they said it would. Great customer service all around.

 

[emjay]

I just got mine from Williams yesterday. I had it forwarded to me by a guy I know for the cost of shipping (and tossed him a couple extra $). The rod is fantastic

That being said, the guys saying the OP was NOT out of line have no idea what they're talking about. As a Canadian, it's pretty damn normal to run into online businesses that don't ship to me. It's just something Canadians have to live with - and if it's something REALLY needed, there are a number of ways to deal with it (as I have) and a bunch of businesses that cater specifically to this need.

International shipping is a hassle for many businesses to the point where I've noticed an increasing trend recently that businesses who once shipped to Canada, no longer do. It sucks, but it's reality, and part of the downside to living in Canada (though it's a tradeoff I gladly make for stuff like universal healthcare.) When people receive their package and the mailperson asks for up to 15% in taxes before handing it over, some people get mad, blame the company, and even refuse the package, sticking the vendor with the charges - and that's when somebody was smart enough to use USPS. When UPS or FedEx is used (as you suggested), and they tack on their UNPREDICTABLE "brokerage fees" that can sometimes even exceed the price of the item + shipping, even I get infuriated. Thing is, I know to just avoid using them, but most people don't, and the vendor is often the one that gets the **** end of the stick.

What the OP was ultimately asking for was special treatment - "ship to me, when you don't ship to other Canadians." They've already made the deliberate choice not to ship to Canada. The fact that they don't have a department or procedures for shipping to Canada makes it EVEN MORE of a hassle for them to ship a single package to Canada than if they normally allowed shipping to Canada, which was already a hassle enough for them to decide not to, so demanding they make an exception is absurd. Then they'd have to make an exception every time a Canadian asks (and believe me, this is NOT the first time), which would be, in practice, a policy of allowing orders from Canada, but without the streamlining and efficiency benefits they'd get by making it an ACTUAL policy (which, again, they've already determined that even then, it's simply not worthwhile for them.)

It might be hard for some Americans to understand - you guys don't have to deal with this problem nearly as much as we do - but we constantly run into businesses that refuse to ship to us. It's just something you have to deal with in Canada. If I contact the business, and they say they don't ship to Canada, that should be enough - they made a reasoned decision to not deal with me a long time ago, and fighting customer service over the issue is beyond pointless. The OP should have dropped it as soon as they said "we don't ship to Canada." They don't need to explain why they don't, because not only does it not make any difference, not only can it not possibly change anything, and not only is it not worth wasting all that time justifying their decisions (not that CS can even speak on behalf of the management like that), but the explanation is most likely the obvious one - they don't ship to Canada for the SAME REASON that the other 10 million businesses who don't ship here decided the same.

 

[bottlebomber]

That's their policy, no matter how many times you ask the guy on the phone, the answer is no. I work in technical support and I hate when people like you call and for some reason can't understand the answer the first time I tell them, just because it isn't what they want to hear.

I hope you find what you need, but I don't think it's bad customer service. You weren't excepting their answer, so they said good bye.

I just saw you angry/irritated a second ago on the Facebook thread. Why don't you frikkin chill dude even your profile pic looks like a grumpy bitter old man. RDWHAHB unless it tastes like beaver piss or something
The person could of at least been polite. If they truly couldn't ship it there has to be a way of explaining that in a way that leaves someone feeling ok about the deal. Even some of you HBT folk have been able to shed light on the matter

 

[osagedr]

As a Canadian, it's pretty damn normal to run into online businesses that don't ship to me. It's just something Canadians have to live with...

Nice rant. Good little Canadian, just grab those ankles with a smile. "Thank you sir! May I have another?"

 

[Tolroe]

I have to agree with Estoppel, the OP is not out of line here. A simple explanation of the reasoning behind the policy from the employee may have avoided the issue. This employee did not do his job appropriately and when pressed should have explained the policy instead of simply saying "it is our policy". If the employee didn't know the reasoning for they policy it's on the business to educate them.

If the policy had been explained and the OP still pressed on then you can make the case the OP was being unreasonable.

 

[Nugent]

This is why I got a PO Box in Point Roberts, Washington. CBSA hasn't charged me duty on anything for years as long as I declare it and am upfront.

 

[Nugent]

Nice rant. Good little Canadian, just grab those ankles with a smile. "Thank you sir! May I have another?"

Classy. Really classy.

If you're going to be critical, you have to expect that others are going to disagree with you. I disagree with your implication that Canadians are submissive b**ches and that you got a raw deal from Williams.

If you want HB stuff, open your own HBS or import/export company.

 

[northernlad]

Yeah, international shipping must be a pain for retailers. Canadian customs don't help matters much either, although frankly those charges are usually modest. The real problem comes when UPS screws customers on brokerage fees to get stuff through customs (FedEx, USPS don't do this, at least not nearly to the same extent).

Once bought a regulator from KegConnection.com...absolutely fabulous customer service experience. Regulator got shipped UPS, who tried to ding me for $60 or something "brokerage fees" on a $120 regulator...kegconnection took the thing back, ate the UPS charges, and shipped it FedEx. That's going above and beyond the call!

Modest? Try again. I ordered a 1lb part for a customer's equipment and it cost $50 in customs fees.
You are a prime example of why many companies do not ship to Canada and a the kind of customer I am always happy to fire.
KegConnection has nothing at all to do with the brokerage fees but you were happy to make them eat the initial freight then gloat about it?

 

[osagedr]

Modest? Try again. I ordered a 1lb part for a customer's equipment and it cost $50 in customs fees.

So by your bizarre reasoning a pound of dirt and a pound of gold should have the same customs fees assessed? And you're somehow still in business?

You are a prime example of why many companies do not ship to Canada and a the kind of customer I am always happy to fire.

You're a prime example of an "entrepreneur" doomed to fail. I'll just bet customers are lining up around the corner to do business with you.

KegConnection has nothing at all to do with the brokerage fees but you were happy to make them eat the initial freight then gloat about it?

KegConnection chose the shipper, genius. They didn't have to eat anything--they could have taken their regulator back even though I paid for it. Instead they chose to keep their customer happy. I'll bet you could learn a great deal from them about how to run a business. I wonder how the size of their business compares to yours.

 

[northernlad]

We'll discuss the genius part when you can get your story straight.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Let's just stop the discussion here.

 

[Oscbert]

One of the items I received was fairly banged up, so I emailed Customer service to ask about returning it. They responded within 10 minutes and helped me out completly. Very sastified. I will be giving them more buisness in the future.

 

[etho1416]

I have had okay experiences with Williams, but here are two really silly problems they seem to have:

1. They don't accept American Express! Most of the other major online homebrew stores do take it. This is a problem since AMEX is huge in the gift card world. Williams lost out on a few hundred dollars of my business this holiday season since they refused my gift cards. That money went elsewhere

2. They won't split a purchase between different credit cards! With gift cards so common nowadays, I found that both my local supermarket and bicycle store would split purchases between cards. Again, I wanted to use a VISA gift card to pay for part of a purchase (it would only cover part of the price) and Williams refused.

I know accepting AMEX and splitting cards costs them more money in fees, but it was either that... or nothing, which is what they got from me.

 

[mcarb]

You're bitching because they don't accept Amex? Come on man, that's weak.

 

[mux]

Oh, my!

 

[lschiavo]

He said they were silly. I think telling your customer that their money is no good is a fine way to loose them.

 

[DakotaRules]

Great customer service!

 

[david_42]

As a small businessman: AMEX is VERY, VERY expensive relative to the percentage of people who use it. In five years of business, I've never had anyone complain because I didn't take it.

 

[etho1416]

I know it is more expensive than other credit cards, but since AMEX is big in the gift card business, they are basically refusing to sell things to a lot of people. Northern Brewer and Austin Homebrew both take AMEX.

Williams markups on their items must be high enough to still make a profit on the fees AMEX charges. They still make money off of visa/mastercard and while amex is higher, its not that much higher. If I ran a business I would rather make some profit than no profit.

 

[wailingguitar]

Not only is AMEX more expensive, they take longer to clear the funds. I owned a bookstore for close to 10 years, when I opened my doors I took Visa/Mc, Amex and Discover. I dropped Discover in the first year, and Amex after about 5 or so. They were more expensive, they took longer to clear funds and their customer service was HORRID. I can't blame any merchant for not wanting to fool with them.

 

[TJinWV]

I know accepting AMEX and splitting cards costs them more money in fees, but it was either that... or nothing, which is what they got from me.

Why do you say that? It's a gift card. You can use it just about anywhere. Use your visa to buy from Williams (or wherever), and the gift card to buy your groceries or gas.

I usually buy everything with Discover (it pays to Discover), but some online retailers don't take it, so I use my visa check card. It's all my money (well, technically it's credit, but still...), no matter where it comes from.

 

[weirdboy]

Using your ATM card like a credit card is just asking for a terrible situation if anyone ever steals the number and uses it to buy expensive goods.

The money comes right out of your bank account. Banks can take several days to reverse the charges, and meanwhile you can pile up fees for insufficient funds, etc. I have several friends who went through this hassle. The charges ultimately got cleared up in each case, but they also tended to stretch over the course of a few months to get everything cleared up, and it involved a lot of customer service calls and the like.