Racking to keg from FV?

[Tony B]

This weekend will be my first time doing this. I will have 2 batches ready to keg. Is it better to transfer through the liquid (out) line on the keg or just open the top and run a hose to the bottom of the keg? Any other helpful tidbits would be appreciated.

Both FV’s have spouts near the bottom, so I will be using gravity to transfer.

 

[lumpher]

The best way is a closed transfer through the out post on the keg using co2 to push it. If you can't do that, I used to put an autosiphon in my bucket, put the hose in the bottom of the keg, and let it rip. That works, but will intorduce oxygen into the beer (bad). If you're going bucket to keg, and aren't ready to do a closed transfer (many videos online how to do them), it's ok to do it that way, especially if the beer is going to go fast. Do you have a spout on your bottling bucket or fermenter? If so, you can even do a gravity closed transfer.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Agree ^^
And if you are going the gravity way, purge with co2 several times and pressurize right away. Depending on thr beer it's not the end of the world, if it's a hoppy ipa, you'll notice loss of flavor and aroma after a couple weeks, as well as darkening in color. This is what oxidation does to our works of art. So drink up.

Cheers

 

[Tony B]

The best way is a closed transfer through the out post on the keg using co2 to push it. If you can't do that, I used to put an autosiphon in my bucket, put the hose in the bottom of the keg, and let it rip. That works, but will intorduce oxygen into the beer (bad). If you're going bucket to keg, and aren't ready to do a closed transfer (many videos online how to do them), it's ok to do it that way, especially if the beer is going to go fast. Do you have a spout on your bottling bucket or fermenter? If so, you can even do a gravity closed transfer.

I added to my original post that I do have spouts on both and will use gravity to transfer. Will it flow through the 3/16 beverage line in a reasonable amount of time or am I better off to open the purged keg and run a hose to the bottom?
Thanks.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

You're better off using a hose to the bottom of the keg rather then the diptube.

 

[mac_1103]

I do closed gravity transfers into purged kegs through the liquid out post all the time, so I'm really not understanding why folks are saying that you're better off opening the keg and using a hose. The key of course is that the keg has to be purged with CO2 and the CO2 from the keg has to be directed back to the fermenter.

 

[tracer bullet]

Indeed. This is not my picture, but it's the gist.

fill keg w/ water, purge with co2. Attach accordingly.

I know it's a different setup, but you can take the gist of this and apply it to most any gravity transfer situation.

 

[whoaru99]

I recently gravity kegged wine through the "out" post & long diptube of a corny while venting the "in" post.

It didn't take too long. Yeah, a bit longer than with a big bore siphon/racking cane or just dropping the hose into open corny, but I didn't find it inconveniently so.

 

[mac_1103]

I don't much care how long it takes since I usually don't stand around watching it.

 

[day_trippr]

You're better off using a hose to the bottom of the keg rather then the diptube.

I disagree. A hose would require the keg lid to be absent, meaning the keg is full of air. Bad juju.

Cheers!

 

[whoaru99]

Not saying with O2 is better than without O2 but I seem to recall reading brulosophy about some blind tests where they were unable to reliably identify beers from closed transfer into CO2 purged kegs vs open racking with some styles but apparently could with NEIPA.

I know it's blasphemy, but maybe it ain't all that much to get wound up over for more basic beer types.

 

[mac_1103]

maybe it ain't all that much to get wound up over for more basic beer types.

OTOH, it really is just stupid easy to do a closed transfer.

 

[whoaru99]

OTOH, it really is just stupid easy to do a closed transfer.

Indeed, it ain't that hard.

Perhaps more my point was that it would be easy for a new brewer to get the idea his/her beer is guaranteed epic failure if they don't.

 

[day_trippr]

Not saying with O2 is better than without O2 but I seem to recall reading brulosophy about some blind tests where they were unable to reliably identify beers from closed transfer into CO2 purged kegs vs open racking with some styles but apparently could with NEIPA.
[...]

That was the article that put me off that site forever. It was a fabulously compromised comparo where both kegs were guaranteed to be oxidized, so of course the oft-vaunted cohort of reviewers couldn't tell the difference...

 

[whoaru99]

That was the article that put me off that site forever. It was a fabulously compromised

That's pretty much what I expected might happen.

It's the same/similar sort of dismissal on most audio enthusiast forums when blind tests are brought up.

But, it's easy to tell the difference when you know there is a difference, and which one is which.

 

[wepeeler]

Not saying with O2 is better than without O2 but I seem to recall reading brulosophy about some blind tests where they were unable to reliably identify beers from closed transfer into CO2 purged kegs vs open racking with some styles but apparently could with NEIPA.

I know it's blasphemy, but maybe it ain't all that much to get wound up over for more basic beer types.

I open transferred my neipas for years with an auto siphon before doing closed transfers. I always preached it didn't make a huge difference. After switching to closed transfers, I still feel that way. I'm sure it makes a difference on the molecular level, but I never had a keg oxidize to the point where it was undrinkable. That being said, I closed transferred a neipa last week and poured side by side samples from a neipa I had kegged over a month ago, and they are identical in aroma and color. So maybe it does make a difference?

 

[whoaru99]

NEIPA is the style they said they could detect a difference in the same/similar type of tests.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I disagree. A hose would require the keg lid to be absent, meaning the keg is full of air. Bad juju.

Cheers!

True, but transferring via gravity using the diptube with the lid on and the prv open will take forrrreeevvverrr... resulting in longer time exposed to oxygen. Transfer fast as possible and purge asap, best bet. I would completely agree had the op said he could push a little co2 during the transfer, but that's not the case here. There will be oxygen exposure no matter what so make it quick and purge, then start carbing it up. Even if you purge the keg with co2 first then start the world's slowest transfer, without co2 on the fv you're allowing oxygen to get into the beer that's in the fv during the transfer.

 

[day_trippr]

Even if you purge the keg with co2 first then start the world's slowest transfer, without co2 on the fv you're allowing oxygen to get into the beer that's in the fv during the transfer.

I'm familiar with that potential paradigm as I ferment in carboys. One can avoid it.

I have an ss racking cane and attached tubing mounted to a carboy cap with a ball lock post on the other port to attach a CO2 regulator. The transfer tubing has a ball lock beer QD to feed the keg through the long dip tube. I purge the cane and tubing before attaching it to the keg and carboy and then ensure the cane tip is submerged before starting the transfer and all the way to the end. No head space gas makes it to the keg.

I imagine one could do as much with a CO2-less gravity-driven transfer as long as there's a return loop back from the keg to the fermenter...

Cheers!

 

[mac_1103]

transferring via gravity using the diptube with the lid on and the prv open will take forrrreeevvverrr...

Who said to open the PRV? Connect the gas post to the fermenter. Closed loop. No oxygen exposure.

 

[Bobby_M]

True, but transferring via gravity using the diptube with the lid on and the prv open will take forrrreeevvverrr... resulting in longer time exposed to oxygen. Transfer fast as possible and purge asap, best bet. I would completely agree had the op said he could push a little co2 during the transfer, but that's not the case here. There will be oxygen exposure no matter what so make it quick and purge, then start carbing it up. Even if you purge the keg with co2 first then start the world's slowest transfer, without co2 on the fv you're allowing oxygen to get into the beer that's in the fv during the transfer.

The time it takes to gravity drain depends on the inside diameter of the hose and the height you put the FV above the keg.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

The time it takes to gravity drain depends on the inside diameter of the hose and the height you put the FV above the keg.

For me, it’s takes about the same time as it takes to sip one full mug, and there’s something delightful about sitting there, sipping a homebrew, and watching that glorious liquid filling up the next keg. In other words; RDWHAHB! Cheers!

 

[Broken Crow]

When I got my first keg I was still using glass carboys and I siphoned my brown ale through a hose dropped into the open keg....It was OK, but something told me it could be better so for my next batch of the same brown ale, I set up an orange carboy-cap that @day_trippr had described in another old thread just like his desciption above, kept it closed and purged and though yeah; it was super-slow it was as is the case with many aspects of homebrewing; worth every second of patience...It went from tasting 'OK' to tasting 'F**king Awesome!'. I've since moved on to closed fermenters with floating diptubes and will never expose my beer again.

 

[Broken Crow]

Another thought: I looked at your other posts and you mentioned an airlock..if it's not the s-type, but is the usual 'cup-of-sanitizer' type; You can easiliy shove a 1/2" hose over the stem, and if you have a spare gas-disconnect around, find a way to clamp the other end of the hose to it so that you have a gas-return line. You'll want to support the hose so it doesn't pop the airlock out, but hey: Closed-transfer with parts you probably have on hand. In future you may wish to install a gas-post bulkhead in your fermenter lid;
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/bulkheadblg.htm

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Who said to open the PRV? Connect the gas post to the fermenter. Closed loop. No oxygen exposure.

The op does not have a fermenter with this capability, I was referring to the prv on the keg as opposed to an open lid on the keg. Either way, without the ability to push co2 into the fermenter as the op has stated, there will be oxygen exposure.

 

[odie]

just open keg, stick hose in, open spigot, empty fermenter, close up keg, purge headspace with CO2 a few times.

Air is 21% oxygen. a few quick purge cycles will take headspace O2 down to way under 1% using minimal CO2

 

[day_trippr]

good grief....

 

[Bobby_M]

The op does not have a fermenter with this capability, I was referring to the prv on the keg as opposed to an open lid on the keg. Either way, without the ability to push co2 into the fermenter as the op has stated, there will be oxygen exposure.

Did you have a separate conversation with the OP outside of this thread? If not, how did you ascertain that he cannot loop the gas port back to the top of the fermenter? I don't see anything in this thread to suggest not and I'd even go as far to say that if his FV has the ability to insert an airlock, then it does in fact have the ability to shove a hose in the grommet or stopper hole.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Did you have a separate conversation with the OP outside of this thread? If not, how did you ascertain that he cannot loop the gas port back to the top of the fermenter? I don't see anything in this thread to suggest not and I'd even go as far to say that if his FV has the ability to insert an airlock, then it does in fact have the ability to shove a hose in the grommet or stopper hole.

In posts #1 and #4 he states he will be transferring via gravity.

I am not disagreeing with the fact that if he can push with co2 that is the best option. I'm simply basing this on the fact that he stated several times that he will be using gravity to transfer. Simple as that. If he were to say that he could push co2 into the fv then that changes things. But that hasn't happened.

 

[Tony B]

After reading all of this and watching some videos, I am going to try to do a closed loop transfer. 5psi in the keg?
With the various sizes of tubing and misc pats I have on hand, I think I can rig something up for each of my FV’s. Drain spouts and airlock holes being different sizes on each. One is a bucket, the other is a Speidel. I’ll try to get some pictures.
I appreciate all the input

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I get by with under 2 psi...

Cheers!

 

[Closet Fermenter]

After reading all of this and watching some videos, I am going to try to do a closed loop transfer. 5psi in the keg?
With the various sizes of tubing and misc pats I have on hand, I think I can rig something up for each of my FV’s. Drain spouts and airlock holes being different sizes on each. One is a bucket, the other is a Speidel. I’ll try to get some pictures.
I appreciate all the input

If I understand you correctly, and you have a spigot on the fermenter; you don’t need pressure anywhere, especially not in the keg. Just open the spigot, let the beer flow in and the keg gas return to the fermenter.

 

[Tony B]

If I understand you correctly, and you have a spigot on the fermenter; you don’t need pressure anywhere, especially not in the keg. Just open the spigot, let the beer flow in and the keg gas return to the fermenter

Earlier this week I filled one keg with Starsan solution and pushed it through 2 kegs and left in a third using co2. I was using about 5psi. I then purged each of the two that were “empty”. So I’m assuming there is about 5 psi in them now.
Should I depressurize before starting the transfer?
My plan is to make the connection between the spout and beverage side of the keg. Then quickly remove the airlock and insert a hose with gas QD already attached to the other end. Then open the spout and attach the gas QD to the keg.
Does that sound right?

 

[whoaru99]

Should I depressurize before starting the transfer?

I did, FWIW.

 

[tracer bullet]

Earlier this week I filled one keg with Starsan solution and pushed it through 2 kegs and left in a third using co2. I was using about 5psi. I then purged each of the two that were “empty”. So I’m assuming there is about 5 psi in them now.
Should I depressurize before starting the transfer?
My plan is to make the connection between the spout and beverage side of the keg. Then quickly remove the airlock and insert a hose with gas QD already attached to the other end. Then open the spout and attach the gas QD to the keg.
Does that sound right?

I would use it to clear air out of the lines you use for your connections. It's almost certainly not a big deal either way but it's free CO2 so why not.

Agreed you don't need any pressure. Beer goes down because of gravity, CO2 comes up to replace it. It should work with or without pressure, the difference being that pressure has a potential to cause some kind of problem and beer spewing when you end up realizing something is loose or whatever inevitable problem eventually arises. The safe bet is to let off the pressure.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Earlier this week I filled one keg with Starsan solution and pushed it through 2 kegs and left in a third using co2. I was using about 5psi. I then purged each of the two that were “empty”. So I’m assuming there is about 5 psi in them now.
Should I depressurize before starting the transfer?
My plan is to make the connection between the spout and beverage side of the keg. Then quickly remove the airlock and insert a hose with gas QD already attached to the other end. Then open the spout and attach the gas QD to the keg.
Does that sound right?

As noted above, purge your lines with the residual pressure in your kegs.
However, if you connect the liquid line from the pressurized keg to the spigot on your unpressurized fermenter, the first thing that will happen when you open the spigot is that the gas will travel back up through the spigot and stir up the trub in the bottom of your fermenter leaving you with a cloudy beer to transfer.

Ask me how I know this.

 

[Tony B]