Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?

[laserghost]

Jumping in here because I want to get the IC3500 and I'm wondering if it's going to work with my power supply at my apartment. There is a 240v 50a outlet in the kitchen where I want to brew and the electric range is plugged into it with a 10-50 type plug. I've figured out how I could wire a cord to go from the 10-50 plug to the 6-20 receptacle for the Avantco.

There's still the whole 50a to 20a thing, though. I was thinking of wiring in two 20a circuit breakers before the 6-20 receptacle, but would that actually help anything aside from frying the burner, and will it just be tripping all the time because there's 50a available from the source outlet?

Just spoke with a guy on the phone at the hardware store and he said I'd need a step down transformer, which they don't have. Really hoping there's a solution here where I can use this outlet. Anyone have advice, or deal with the same scenario successfully?

Cheers!

 

[trussell]

Well, snap. I contacted the webrestaurantstore.com customer service department and they tell me that the pot diameter needs to roughly match the burner diameter. I'm probably not going to find a 8.5" diameter pot that can handle a full boil, right?

Any other thoughts guys?? Thanks for all the help.

I have that 3500W from the webrestaurantstore.com and use a 10 Gallon ~13.5" pot and get a nice vigorous boil. I haven't read thought this thread fully but it does the job.

 

[IslandLizard]

Jumping in here because I want to get the IC3500 and I'm wondering if it's going to work with my power supply at my apartment. There is a 240v 50a outlet in the kitchen where I want to brew and the electric range is plugged into it with a 10-50 type plug. I've figured out how I could wire a cord to go from the 10-50 plug to the 6-20 receptacle for the Avantco.

There's still the whole 50a to 20a thing, though. I was thinking of wiring in two 20a circuit breakers before the 6-20 receptacle, but would that actually help anything aside from frying the burner, and will it just be tripping all the time because there's 50a available from the source outlet?

Breakers protect your wiring, not your devices or appliances. An appliance will take as many amps from the circuit as it needs, until the breaker trips. Putting a IC3500, which draws around 15A, on a 50A circuit will never max that circuit out. You're safe there. But... if a short should occur in the IC3500 before its internal fuse, or anywhere in the cord feeding it, it will pull up to 50 Amps from your mains and melt the cord before hopefully and ultimately tripping the 50A breaker. So yes, a single phase, double pole 20A breaker would prevent that and make it safer. Otherwise just be careful, don't sever or damage the cord, walk away for long times, or leave the unit plugged in.

Please read the whole thread, this has been covered already with some ideas on how to make the adapter with and without breakers.

Just spoke with a guy on the phone at the hardware store and he said I'd need a step down transformer, which they don't have. Really hoping there's a solution here where I can use this outlet. Anyone have advice, or deal with the same scenario successfully?

Cheers!

Oh, that's rich!
Step down transformer? Hardware store clerk? Is he an electrician? Apparently not.

There is nothing to step down to, except for stairs.

 

[laserghost]

lol. thanks IslandLizard. I'll carry on as planned with my adapter cord + circuit breakers.

 

[IslandLizard]

lol. thanks IslandLizard. I'll carry on as planned with my adapter cord + circuit breakers.

If you use 2 single breakers, instead of one double pole one, they SHOULD be linked, so both flip on/off if one gets triggered.

I had a whole house run through an oven once, like a huge rheostat, making for some nice atmosphere lighting.

 

[laserghost]

i meant a single double pole breaker!

 

[IslandLizard]

i meant a single double pole breaker!

I'm curious how you attach the wires to the breaker clips.

Perhaps you can post a picture of the inside and outside of your custom adapter when you're done building it?

It could be helpful for those wanting to build something similar. Many people have the 50A stove outlet. But they are a hassle to get to as they are typically behind the stove giving no front side access.

Alternatively you could wire it with 20A extension cords from two separate 20A/110V outlets where breakers are on opposite sides in the panel. Many homes don't have 20A circuits though, except for the kitchen and garage.

 

[laserghost]

Yeah I'll post pics when I do it in the next few weeks. Just ordered some components on eBay and Amazon and will finish up at the depot.

My stove is on the end and not fixed in any way so it's very easy to just slide it out and access the outlet.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah I'll post pics when I do it in the next few weeks. Just ordered some components on eBay and Amazon and will finish up at the depot.

My stove is on the end and not fixed in any way so it's very easy to just slide it out and access the outlet.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

One guy earlier in the thread was going to make a splitter so he could leave his range plugged in one leg, and use the other leg for the IC3500 without having to pull out his stove each time. Not exactly up to any code, so he's on his own so to speak. But even if he ran a few stovetop elements concurrently, it would still be way under 50A total. The oven alone could count for 2000-7000W depending on configuration and model.

 

[brewguyver]

Yeah I'll post pics when I do it in the next few weeks. Just ordered some components on eBay and Amazon and will finish up at the depot.

My stove is on the end and not fixed in any way so it's very easy to just slide it out and access the outlet.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

I'm working on a build for something similar - let me know how it goes.

I also have a 60A breaker in the kitchen (on a 100+ A wire no less) from when my house had an old electric stove. Since this is supposed to help me get *out* of the kitchen, I'm targeting the 30A dryer plug in the basement.

 

[laserghost]

A few more days until my IC3500 arrives, but I've built the adapter for a 10-50 receptacle, with a 20 amp 2-pole breaker in the lines to protect the burner. It was pretty easy and straight-forward but took longer than I expected. I used 10 gauge wire which was a little heavy when mounting to the 6-20r terminals. I ended up soldering the wire strands together and then drilling through to ensure a good connection, otherwise a bunch of strands would not have been in contact to the screw post terminal.

The other weird things was the power in side of the circuit breaker is a "plug in" type rather than a screw post like the output side. I've never worked with circuit breakers before, and I assumed it would all be screw posts, but the input was a blade style receptacle. I ended up fanning out the copper wire strands to make them as thin as possible, then flux and solder them into a thin blade that I could then jam into the plug in receptacle. I think it should work OK and they are in there, but they could come out with a little tug.

I used velcro to mount the breaker. The cable coming into the box doesn't go in and out but it does rotate a bit, which I'd like to find a way to fix. I'll report back in a few days after I've had a chance to plug in the IC3500 and test it out.

 

[AnOldUR]

 

[trussell]

First you really don't need a breaker on external wiring. The reason for spa panels is to have a GFCI breaker on a proper breaker mount.

In a breaker panel there are alternating bus bars one for each leg. The breakers stab on to those. Not sure how safe that setup is with the the flatten tinned wires stabbed into the breaker. If one comes loose and contacts the other it will trip the stove breaker but the the arc flash may fry your box. That is the reason for using a spa panel, it gives the correct connection for a breaker.

An alternative to tinning the wires like that would be to use crimp connections with spade lugs.

 

[laserghost]

Thanks for the advice about the spade plugs. I put in a breaker to protect the burner in case it were to draw more than 20 amps from the outlet.

I do have the connections jammed in there pretty good and don't think they'll just come out. They aren't loose. Am I asking for trouble?

 

[AnOldUR]

I put in a breaker to protect the burner in case it were to draw more than 20 amps from the outlet.

That's not how it works. There are plenty of things within any appliance that will fry way before the breaker will trip. Hopefully the appliance is internally fused. The breaker is there to protect your house wiring from overloading behind the wall and burning down your home.

Am I asking for trouble?

In so many ways.

 

[laserghost]

In so many ways.

Do you have any recommendations? I'm simply trying to tap into the 10-50 outlet that's being used by my electric range.

 

[trussell]

The burner has a internal fuse as a member found out, think it's back in this thread somewhere.

The burner should't pull more than 15.9 Amps. 3500 Watt/220V = 15.9A

If the connections are mechanically sound then this is probably OK. I'd like to see something securing the feed wires to the breaker. Or you could silicon or hot glue them in place. That way it would help with strain relief and keep the wires in place. Before others chime in I have found both silicon and hot glue used in several industrial computer to keep connectors in place. Silicon is nice as it works as strain relief but can be cut free if you need to change things.

I've got an IC3500 and have used it on 3 brews but since I brew in a basement shop that had a sub panel I wired a GFCI breaker into that box. I used a 30 Amp breaker and ran 10 GA wiring so can upgrade to a HERMS later. Much to build first, control box, element in HLT, etc.

 

[AnOldUR]

Do you have any recommendations?

Put a 6-20R in-line connector on the end of your dryer cord. If you want to get really fancy, use an inline GFCI, but unless you using this in a damp location, it's not necessary.

 

[laserghost]

i really appreciate the feedback – i don't want to burn anything to the ground. so it sounds like people don't like the circuit breaker in the line ... or is it just the way it's all connected? is the worst thing that could happen here is that my box gets fried?

AnOldUR, you are saying to just simplify the whole thing into a straight adapter cord? i know the IC3500 is supposed to only pull a certain amount, but i was trying to think about what if something went wrong and it got fried. so it's got an internal fuse, but i thought an external breaker would be easier to deal with.

trussel, you are saying my box might work as is, but you'd like to see some hot glue holding the feed wires to the breaker? i can do that.

what to do?

i've already spent enough on this box alone, so if i can make it happen with hot glue i'd try it, but i'm not opposed to simplifying and getting an $11 inline 6-20r. what about an inline fuse holder?

i'm really curious to see what will happen when i turn it on, but i don't want to start a fire or die. :fro:

 

[AnOldUR]

i was trying to think about what if something went wrong and it got fried. so it's got an internal fuse, but i thought an external breaker would be easier to deal with.

I don't know, but it's a safe bet that the internal fuse is at or less than 20 amps and would blow before the breaker tripped if something internal caused a short.

i'm really curious to see what will happen when i turn it on, but i don't want to start a fire or die.

In theory, everything you did is good and will work. In practice, there are a lot of things that could cause problems down the road.

 

[trussell]

i really appreciate the feedback – i don't want to burn anything to the ground. so it sounds like people don't like the circuit breaker in the line ... or is it just the way it's all connected? is the worst thing that could happen here is that my box gets fried?

AnOldUR, you are saying to just simplify the whole thing into a straight adapter cord? i know the IC3500 is supposed to only pull a certain amount, but i was trying to think about what if something went wrong and it got fried. so it's got an internal fuse, but i thought an external breaker would be easier to deal with.

trussel, you are saying my box might work as is, but you'd like to see some hot glue holding the feed wires to the breaker? i can do that.

what to do?

i've already spent enough on this box alone, so if i can make it happen with hot glue i'd try it, but i'm not opposed to simplifying and getting an $11 inline 6-20r. what about an inline fuse holder?

i'm really curious to see what will happen when i turn it on, but i don't want to start a fire or die. :fro:

I think its safe for the Amps it'll pull however you don't want to risk the wires coming loose from that breaker. The breaker really isn't needed but since its built just make sure the wires stay put.

 

[IslandLizard]

If laserghost only took the effort to read this whole thread, as I've suggested 2x already. At least the pertinent posts where people are wiring to existing outlets. And heed to the free advice given.

He also would have seen the IC3500's internal 20A fuse being mentioned.

 

[laserghost]

He also would have seen the IC3500's internal 20A fuse being mentioned.

I did read that. I was thinking that having an inline breaker would be easier to switch than opening the unit and getting out a soldering iron to replace a blown fuse.

If the unit happened to pull over 20 amps for some reason, wouldn't it trip the breaker before blowing the fuse? I'm going to try the splade idea for all the connections so everything will be cleaner and insulated.

What is so wrong with the idea of this build, btw?

 

[AnOldUR]

If the unit happened to pull over 20 amps for some reason, wouldn't it trip the breaker before blowing the fuse?

Heat is what makes a breaker trip. Given that both overloads protections are rated at 20amp, the one closer to the source of the short circuit should build up enough heat to trip first.

 

[IslandLizard]

Heat is what makes a breaker trip. Given that both overloads protections are rated at 20amp, the one closer to the source of the short circuit should build up enough heat to trip first.

Let me clarify that a bit.
If there's a malfunction within the unit, and the current drawn exceeds 20A the internal (glass) fuse will melt and does so relatively fast. That protects the wires inside as well as the power lead to prevent fire. The mains circuit breaker at the same amperage usually reacts much slower (we're still talking fractions of a second), although in some cases it may trip instead.

 

[IslandLizard]

I did read that. I was thinking that having an inline breaker would be easier to switch than opening the unit and getting out a soldering iron to replace a blown fuse.

If the unit happened to pull over 20 amps for some reason, wouldn't it trip the breaker before blowing the fuse? I'm going to try the splade idea for all the connections so everything will be cleaner and insulated.

What is so wrong with the idea of this build, btw?

See my previous message and that of AnOldUR regarding tripping of fuses.

You don't have to wire the insides with 10 gauge wire. 12 or 14 should suffice for those short connections and are way easier to handle. It is the heat build-up in longer lengths that demands the use of thicker wires.

If you decide to use crimp on spades, beware, they come in different sizes. The spades that fit 10ga wire may be too wide to fit the screw terminals of the 6-20R socket.

Since you've decided to stick with using the mains breakers, you may want to solder that wire onto the lugs of that bus-bar terminal. Relying on friction fit from the tinned end is not safe or sound. [ADDED] If it works itself slightly loose, the resistance of the poor junction will generate heat and even sparking. The problem is, that resistance goes up as the oxidation builds, creating more heat.

 

[laserghost]

I rebuilt the connections inside the box yesterday as a revision based on everyone's feedback. Definitely a lot cleaner now, and I feel really good about the connection to the breaker's bus-bar terminal. My first attempt with the 1.0 was to solder the wire to the bus-bar terminal, but that type of metal didn't take the solder, fyi.

Hot glue and crimp on terminals were a great suggestion, the hot glue really came through. I also used it to secure the cable's incoming mounting hardware from twisting left and right. Instead of spades to go into the breaker, I used 3/8" female quick disconnects, which out of the box are too fat to plug in so I crimped the bulge slightly and woila, a perfect snug fit. That alone probably would hold just fine, but I added hot glue to the outside to be certain. I also hot glued the open ends of the ring terminals so everything is insulated with no exposed wire at all. The 12–10 guage #10 rings fit on the 6-20r screw posts, but any bigger would have been an issue.

The IC3500 also came yesterday, and I fired her up and ran her for about 1/2 hour playing around with temperatures, and everything worked as I had hoped. Flipping the breaker switch in the box turned it off. I think I'm all set to go, now I just need a new kettle (bought a 15 gallon Tall Boy to ship from NB on 11/22).

 

[AnOldUR]

Nice job! Happy brewing.

 

[karalaok]

I am in the same exact situation, my dryer has a 30 amp plug like the picture shown so I need an adapter like you described here. My problem is the outlet is about 30 feet away from where I can brew so instead of an adapter I am thinking about an extension cord (30ft) I don't know much about electricity, I can only plug and pray so will an extension cord creates any safety issue? and if not where can I get a custom made one?
Thanks for your time.

That's a 30amp plug, not the 20amp that comes on the Avantco IC3500. You could make up a short adapter cord with a male plug like the one you pictured to fit your outlet and a female 6-20 connector (below) to plug the induction plate into.

 

[IslandLizard]

I am in the same exact situation, my dryer has a 30 amp plug like the picture shown so I need an adapter like you described here. My problem is the outlet is about 30 feet away from where I can brew so instead of an adapter I am thinking about an extension cord (30ft) I don't know much about electricity, I can only plug and pray so will an extension cord creates any safety issue? and if not where can I get a custom made one?
Thanks for your time.

Although you "can use" a 12/3 extension cord/wire, a 10/3 would be safer and may comply with "code."

You cannot buy pre-made extension cords of that length with a dryer plug on one end. Although it's not rocket science, and with some care a very doable DIY project, it's probably best to find a friend, cousin, or nephew who is savvy with electricity and wires.

You would need 30' of 10/3 wire, or more, depending on actual routing, a NEMA 10-30P (dryer plug) and a 6-20R connector, like the yellow one in your picture, for your Avantco IC3500 to plug into.

 

[IslandLizard]

I rebuilt the connections inside the box yesterday as a revision based on everyone's feedback. Definitely a lot cleaner now, and I feel really good about the connection to the breaker's bus-bar terminal. My first attempt with the 1.0 was to solder the wire to the bus-bar terminal, but that type of metal didn't take the solder, fyi.

Hot glue and crimp on terminals were a great suggestion, the hot glue really came through. I also used it to secure the cable's incoming mounting hardware from twisting left and right. Instead of spades to go into the breaker, I used 3/8" female quick disconnects, which out of the box are too fat to plug in so I crimped the bulge slightly and woila, a perfect snug fit. That alone probably would hold just fine, but I added hot glue to the outside to be certain. I also hot glued the open ends of the ring terminals so everything is insulated with no exposed wire at all. The 12–10 guage #10 rings fit on the 6-20r screw posts, but any bigger would have been an issue.

The IC3500 also came yesterday, and I fired her up and ran her for about 1/2 hour playing around with temperatures, and everything worked as I had hoped. Flipping the breaker switch in the box turned it off. I think I'm all set to go, now I just need a new kettle (bought a 15 gallon Tall Boy to ship from NB on 11/22).

That looks much better, great job!

Have you brewed with it yet?

 

[brettwasbtd]

Anyone have a bayou classic triply kettle? I have a bayou classic 1036 9 gallon pot. Was noticing I really need to be stirring well to get an equalized temp reading when heating up strike water. It was bubbling up from the 5" circle around 180* F but much cooler on the sides. Was wondering if anyone who had the tri ply kettle saw better heat dispersion?

 

[brewguyver]

I am in the same exact situation, my dryer has a 30 amp plug like the picture shown so I need an adapter like you described here. My problem is the outlet is about 30 feet away from where I can brew so instead of an adapter I am thinking about an extension cord (30ft) I don't know much about electricity, I can only plug and pray so will an extension cord creates any safety issue? and if not where can I get a custom made one?
Thanks for your time.

After doing my research, I decided to switch my dryer outlet from 3 wire to 4 wire. Something about the ground going to the metal shell of my dryer made me uncomfortable . Thankfully when I opened up the outlet, I already had 4 wire run to the circuit (the electrician clipped the ground in the old outlet - go figure). It was just a matter of buying the new outlet, wiring it in, and replacing the dryer cord with the 4 wire cord.

I ended up making an extension cord with 25 ft 8/4 SOOW Portable Cord from wireandcabletogo.com. This may be overkill for your needs.They have 10/3 and 10/4 that is pretty heavy duty at a decent price. I used a levitron plug end from home depot.

Note that I'm wiring this through a spa panel and then a project box (will be running a RIMS and Pump from the same box), so I needed the extra oomph.

 

[IslandLizard]

After doing my research, I decided to switch my dryer outlet from 3 wire to 4 wire. Something about the ground going to the metal shell of my dryer made me uncomfortable . Thankfully when I opened up the outlet, I already had 4 wire run to the circuit (the electrician clipped the ground in the old outlet - go figure). It was just a matter of buying the new outlet, wiring it in, and replacing the dryer cord with the 4 wire cord.

I ended up making an extension cord with 25 ft 8/4 SOOW Portable Cord from wireandcabletogo.com. This may be overkill for your needs.They have 10/3 and 10/4 that is pretty heavy duty at a decent price. I used a levitron plug end from home depot.

Note that I'm wiring this through a spa panel and then a project box (will be running a RIMS and Pump from the same box), so I needed the extra oomph.

On the old 3 prongs Neutral and Ground share/are the same conductor. Although we've lived with that setup for many decades without any issues I know of, the code now requires 4 wires/4 prongs to the dryer for all NEW installations. In this 4-wire configuration Neutral and Ground are now separated, having their own wires... until they meet again... in the main service box, where Ground and Neutral are tied together. Much safer, huh?

Now you needed the 4-wire for your brew panel to have 240V and 120V all with GFCI protection through the spa panel. So it makes sense there, and lucky for you the electrician at the time didn't nibble off a mere 2 quarters a foot by giving you a simple 10/2 with ground.

Speaking of, is your circuit rated for 30A or higher? If still 30A why the thicker 8-gauge SOOW cable?

 

[IslandLizard]

Anyone have a bayou classic triply kettle? I have a bayou classic 1036 9 gallon pot. Was noticing I really need to be stirring well to get an equalized temp reading when heating up strike water. It was bubbling up from the 5" circle around 180* F but much cooler on the sides. Was wondering if anyone who had the tri ply kettle saw better heat dispersion?

Can't answer for the Bayou tri-ply but I have a MoreBeer HD tri-ply kettle, and I need to stir a bit too to get all the mash/sparge water at the same temp. The wort gets stirred too during the boil.

My "heating disc" is maybe 6". The heat spreads a bit more evenly through the ticker bottom than I expect a single ply would.

The small heating area has been a bit of a concern, but after all these years seems to work just fine, except for the one guy who blew a "hole" in the sandwich of his tri-ply.

 

[trussell]

Anyone have a bayou classic triply kettle? I have a bayou classic 1036 9 gallon pot. Was noticing I really need to be stirring well to get an equalized temp reading when heating up strike water. It was bubbling up from the 5" circle around 180* F but much cooler on the sides. Was wondering if anyone who had the tri ply kettle saw better heat dispersion?

I have 10 gallon single bottom and triplay Bayou Classic kettles. I use the single bottom one for the MT and have not seen any problems when heating strike water. When the cooker is on you might see a few degrees warmer over the ring area but once I see the water at target temp I give it a swirl with my mash paddle and find the reading is fairly even. Were you touching the side?

 

[brewguyver]

Speaking of, is your circuit rated for 30A or higher? If still 30A why the thicker 8-gauge SOOW cable?

It was mainly an issue of product availability at the supplier. Their 10/4 was 25A so i went with the 8/4 at 35A. It was cheaper than other options I saw and MHSA compliant, so I went with that. I also picked up 25' (min purchase) of 12/3 (25A) for the RIMS tube and related projects. It was < $0.75 a foot w/no additional shipping cost.

<Aside>
Originally I was going to go with 50A so i could use the cable when I go full electric, but I punted. The 50A+ rated cable was ~ $5/ft and 4/4 (damn heavy) so I punted. It makes me wonder how vendors can sell a 6/4 cable for 50A service ... everything i found from industrial suppliers had 6/4 at a max of 45A.

 

[augiedoggy]

It was mainly an issue of product availability at the supplier. Their 10/4 was 25A so i went with the 8/4 at 35A. It was cheaper than other options I saw and MHSA compliant, so I went with that. I also picked up 25' (min purchase) of 12/3 (25A) for the RIMS tube and related projects. It was < $0.75 a foot w/no additional shipping cost.

<Aside>
Originally I was going to go with 50A so i could use the cable when I go full electric, but I punted. The 50A+ rated cable was ~ $5/ft and 4/4 (damn heavy) so I punted. It makes me wonder how vendors can sell a 6/4 cable for 50A service ... everything i found from industrial suppliers had 6/4 at a max of 45A.

A lot of 6 gauge is actually rated for 60amps.... I had to run it for my 60a hot tub...12/3 is usually rated for 20 if its the romex style and not soow type.... 10/3 is rated for 30a (at least most of the stuff sold in the states....

 

[brettwasbtd]

I have 10 gallon single bottom and triplay Bayou Classic kettles. I use the single bottom one for the MT and have not seen any problems when heating strike water. When the cooker is on you might see a few degrees warmer over the ring area but once I see the water at target temp I give it a swirl with my mash paddle and find the reading is fairly even. Were you touching the side?

Can't answer for the Bayou tri-ply but I have a MoreBeer HD tri-ply kettle, and I need to stir a bit too to get all the mash/sparge water at the same temp. The wort gets stirred too during the boil.

My "heating disc" is maybe 6". The heat spreads a bit more evenly through the ticker bottom than I expect a single ply would.

The small heating area has been a bit of a concern, but after all these years seems to work just fine, except for the one guy who blew a "hole" in the sandwich of his tri-ply.

Thanks guys! I am still boiling on my propane burner (haven't setup my ventilation in the basement yet) but I used the avantco to heat up my sparge water last brewday. I think I just need to be more diligent with stirring as it threw me off a bit (few degrees low) on my mash temp after all was said and done. May take a few brews with this burner to get redialed in, but that is what happens when you change equipment.

 

[brewguyver]

A lot of 6 gauge is actually rated for 60amps.... I had to run it for my 60a hot tub...12/3 is usually rated for 20 if its the romex style and not soow type.... 10/3 is rated for 30a (at least most of the stuff sold in the states....

SOOW wire or standard? From what I saw the 6/4 standard wire was, but not braided. Shoot a link if you have it too - would love to avoid the 4/4 later if i can.